| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 242.2 | Reply #2 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:00 | 14 |
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< Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
Thanks for the update. I'm pleased that we are having some input to the
decision.
The Crescent is the only decision that I would be happy with. Getting
to DECPARK is a total nightmare which can only be made worse by the new
parking arrangements. In fact it is quicker to get to London and work
in the city than getting to DECPARK.
If the object of this exercise is to clear the CSC cheaply, then
DECPARK is probably the right choice.
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| 242.3 | Reply #3 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:11 | 108 |
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< Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
My views on the various aspects of the CSC move are as
follows:-
(1) Travel: I live only 5 miles from DEC Park, so at first sight,
it might seem advantageous for me to choose DEC park.
Not So! It takes typically 40 minutes to 1 hour to negotiate the M4-J11
obstacle at peak times, it takes me 30 minutes to reach Basingstoke.
On the other hand I could cycle to DEC-park in about 20-30 minutes
which would (a) improve my health, (b) expose me to adverse weather,
(c) expose me to higher personal risk of road accident (d) reduce my
flexibility to respond to needs to travel.
On the travel issue, I would prefer to remain in Basingstoke.
(2) Environment:
Difficult to assess without actually seeing the two
alternatives set up. The current CSC is grossly inadequate. I believe
it's environmental control contributes to ill health (colds, respiratory
problems). How about checking the historical sick returns for Crescent
and DEC Park-2, and normalise them to the number of occupants, to see if
one indicates a healthier environment than the other?
In an open plan office, it is up to individual groups to negotiate
within their alloted space, provided this space is adequate for ALL the
required operating resources. (The library, and troubleshooting HW
resources are probably a health hazard in the current CSC setup.)
Lighting needs to be as individual as possible. There is a wide
variation in lighting requirements between individuals in the CSC. Some
prefer dark environment with local lights, some prefer brightly lit
environments.
Noise is an issue which must be taken into account. Is there a
significant background noise from the M4/A33 at DEC-Park-2? How does it
compare with the background noise from the M3 at the Crescent? Does the
air conditioning contribute any noise? How do these compare?
(3) Parking: DP parking and access at peak times has long
been a problem. It will be two years before the relief road is open. Even
then, access from out of Reading will have to be via M4-J11, so traffic
congestion will still be a problem.
The provision of busses and offsite secure parking will to some
extent ease this problem, however there is a large element of psychological
entrapment inherent in this scheme.( In order to leave site, one has to
identify a bus time, arrange ones work around this, catch a bus to car
park, collect car, and the reverse process. inevitably, people will try
to find space in the DP carpark before searching further afield,
introducing a burden on they're time (unless the company relaxes working
hours accordingly!). The alternative is to adjust one's working hours to
suit parking availability. Not always compatible with customer facing
operations, or personal constraints.
On the parking issue, I would prefer Basingstoke.
(4) Operations: (a) personal
Require-
desk
workstation and/or PC
OPERATING SOFTWARE
APPLICATIONS
network access
document storage space
telephone
printer access
fax facility
(b) group
Require-
Library
HW troubleshooting resources
ALPHA'S
VAX'S
STORAGE
CONTROLLERS
DISKS
TAPES
STORAGE ARRAYS
OPTICAL
PC'S
PRINTERS
MEDIA STORAGE
MEDIA CONTROL
There is plenty of scope for improvement in many of these
areas, not the least being space. Flexibility and suitability of
available space will decide which is the most favourable location.
(eg) Fragmentation of support and diagnosis functions because
of space constraints will reduce the quality and availability of support.
(5) Staffing: Many staff commute from area's south of
Basingstoke.
A transfer to Reading would place an unacceptable additional travel
burden on some of these people. If they are in critical areas, with
hard-to-replace skills, then their feelings should be weighted higher
to ensure that operational capability is not sacrificed.
More as I think of it!
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| 242.4 | reply #4 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:12 | 6 |
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< Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
I'd rather lick pigeons than commute to Reading.
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| 242.5 | Reply #5 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:16 | 26 |
| < Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
My preference would be the Crescent because I live in
Basingstoke.
The reasons are:
1.The travelling time. As you are aware it is not the distance to
Reading (although I don't have a company car,so there would be wear
and tear on my car) but trying to get into the building.
2.Being stuck in the same place all day.
3.I also think that from an environmental point of view,more cars
travelling toward an already impossible traffic situation needs to
be taken seriously.
The advantages of Decpark:
1.More visibility.
2.Better understanding of other groups within DEC.
3.More scope to consider possible career changes.
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| 242.6 | Reply #6 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:20 | 33 |
| < Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
My comments on the move:-
1. The Crescent is ideal for me personally in that I can carry
out my personal tasks at lunch time (banking, shopping, my
committee duties for Basingstoke Amateur Operatic Society,etc)
I will not be able to carry out many of these if I am in
Reading.
2. The task of getting into Decpark is a time consuming
activity that starts the day off badly as far as stress is
concerned. To start and end the day outside of Digital with
such a stress generating activity is not only liable to make me
ill in the short term but is likely to reduce my life
span (well known medical fact)
3. The time added on to the end of the working day means that
my activities outside of Digital (and I care more for them
than I do for Digital at this present moment) will be severely
impacted as I have to leave home again after my evening meal
at 7.15.
This means I will be throwing my dinner down my neck and then
rushing out of the door to make my appointments. Another stress
factor.
4. In these days of environmental considerations how many
added journeys of length are we unnecessarily adding to the
local car movements.
5. I can see no difference between actually working in the
Crescent or Decpark.
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| 242.7 | Reply #7 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:22 | 23 |
| < Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
If management decide to move us to Dec Park I would have to chose
1 of the following options:-
1 Accept a 1hr increase in my travel time plus the additional
costs in fuel and a restriction on my social life in Somerset
2 Move closer to Reading which would involve either moving to a
smaller house (2 bed instead of 4) or increasing my mortgage
by between 30-35,000 pounds which I cannot do on my current
wages and a restriction on my social life in Somerset
3 Leave Digital and find another job, possibly in Somerset which
would save me approx 200 pounds a month in travel related
expenses.
Of these 3 I consider the last to be the most likely with the
first being a temperary action while I look for another job.
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| 242.8 | Reply #8 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:26 | 88 |
| < Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
NOT to be reproduced, in any form, without my permission
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As I see it the company has to consider the following categories:-
1) The Company needs
2) The Business needs
3) Employee needs
Before any decision can be made a careful analysis needs to be made.
1) The Company needs:
Reduce running costs to be more profitable & to keep shareholders interested
in DIGITAL
For DECpark
Any company has a duty to keep costs down. In the CSC's case this is real
estate & wage bill as there is very little material cost. DECpark is bought &
paid for. The Crescent on the other hand is a least building so increasing the
costs.
Against DECpark
At present there is insufficient car parking space so the company need to lay
on extra car parking areas which involve park & ride facilities. The CSC is a
24 hour operation, the park & ride won't run every 20 mins so OOH we will have
people walking to the car parks late at night. We have had numerous incidents
of car breakins & attempted rape here in Basingstoke I shudder to think what
might happen in Reading !!!!. Of course there will be increased costs running
the park & ride service.
2) The Business needs:
Digital has to provide a 24 service to our customer's. Either building
will suffice - however with all our eggs in one basket will make digital very
vulnerable to attack - remember the Crescent fire without the CSC digital would
have been unable to continue providing a service to our customer's. I would have
thought this was a lesson well learnt if the CSC is moved to DECpark we won't
be in a such a strong position and such a situation could happen again.
3) Employee needs:
Over the past sixteen years the CSC has been based in Basingstoke. Over
that period of time people have made their homes here. Agreed some people drive
in 20-25 miles that is their choice. However if the CSC is moved to Reading the
amount of travel time will increase - not only those people who already travel
some distance but also the people living in Basingstoke. Digital MUST accept
that for what ever reasons if the CSC is moved to Reading some people may not
(or will not) travel to Reading. This could result in quality people and/or
engineer's leaving digital. We have seen a trend in Open & Diagnosis groups
whereby upto near 50% (75% in case of Open) engineer's have left digital. If
the CSC is moved to Reading I believe this trend will continue. At present
there isn't the workforce to carry out existing workloads, with fewer people
customer's, business & people will suffer. This could be considered "natural
wastage" but if manager's think this they are very short sighted (aka blind) to
the facts. With the further complication of car parking space & increased
travel time a move to Reading will further demotivate people & also wouldn't be
in employee interests.
On a personal level if the CSC moved to Reading I would probably travel
the extra distance but would seriously consider leaving the company as my
travel time would increase from currently 35-45 minutes to close to 1.5 hours.
Digital MUST realise there is life outside of DIGITAL & the present torrent of
engineer's moving to Sun Microsystems is literary only the tip of the iceberg.
Digital must weigh up all the possibilities but I think a decision to stay in
Basingstoke is the right & just one for the Company, the Business & for it's
employees.
Digital once had an advertising slogan on the lines of " In the year
2000 the world will be run by computers - but digital will be run by people"
Perhaps that time is closer than we think.
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| 242.9 | Reply #9 | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:29 | 37 |
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< Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
Firstly I am AGAINST the move to DECPARK and would seriously consider not
moving there with the company.
Reasons:
additional travel time, probably 1hr + each way sitting in traffic jams
additional cost of transport - fuel costs - more miles and sitting in
traffic jams
- wear on car
- more frequent services on car
- quicker depreciation with added mileage
difficulty in parking ( from what we read at present about lack of
parking that already exists at DECPARK )
additional stress involved negotiating traffic jams to and from DECPARK
not being close to schools that my children attend - at present I can
collect them if they become ill or similar emergency in 5 mins. DECPARK
makes that impractical.
the origional reason for coming to Viables and subsequently moving to
Basingstoke was to be close to my place of work and this is what I
still want.
Most importantly my schedule is built around being close to work as I
have to take 2 children to school and then be immediately available
after work to look after them. A move to DECPARK would involve paying
a child minder to do this and I cant afford that.
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| 242.10 | Reply #1 reposted | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 10:44 | 30 |
| < Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
I think that the CSC moving to DEC park is an excellent idea. DEC
Park is Digital's headquarters, it makes good sense to have a function a
important as the CSC in the same location.
I think that the effect on Shift will be positive. Have just moved us
all to Reading I suspect that our managers will be much more flexible in
shift start and finish times, allowing us to "do away" with the dreaded
9 to 5"30 shifts.
Outside of rush our CSC to DEC park is < 20 minutes (OK More for
some people.
Surly the crime rate in Reading cannot be measurably worse than
Basingstoke's
This is a national problem at the moment, and although some more
country locations as still fairly crime free, two big towns only
16 miles apart can't be much different.
Wherever we move to, it will not be our only building, so off site
backups will not be a problem, or even split the Cluster across FDDI.
DECPark is only 16 miles from the Crescent. Starting at 09:00 &
finishing at 17:30 it is a long 16 miles !. Never the less, it is not
the end of the earth we are considering moving to. As someone who has
made this journey every day for many years, I can honestly say that it
is no fun, but it is not as bad as many people are suggesting.
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| 242.11 | Another reply | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Tue Nov 26 1996 11:17 | 39 |
| < Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
Here are my thoughts on the move to Reading/Crescent.
I have two small children who current go to a childminder,
Her hours of work are 8:30 to 4:30 I fit in my hours of work
around these. If our building should move to Decpark.
1 I would have to get another childminder who would work longer
hours
2 I would then have to pay extra to the said alternative
childminder (as my current one is by far the cheapest in the
area)
3 I would have to uproot my children from a person they have
known all their lives.
4 I would have to pay for the extra hours that the childminder
would be working (which could be as much as an extra �8-10 per
day)
On another note I have worked in Dec Park for 2 years
You do not see any other groups, as each group is so self
contained that people who work in the same area do not know what
each others names are, Dec Park is like a mini town, they have
their own estates and people stick to them.
Things tend to go missing quite alot (yes even more than in UVO)
Parking is horrendous (as mentioned) but also car break-ins in the
car park are quite common and any park and ride system that is
based in Whittley Wood is asking for trouble as Whittley Wood is
famous for being a troubled area (I also lived in reading for a
few years).
Well you asked :)
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| 242.12 | And another reply. | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Wed Nov 27 1996 10:50 | 46 |
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< Entered by Brian Adams, on behalf of responder >
==================================================
Here are my thoughts and how it will affect me, if my 'place of work'
is moved to DECPARK.
The immediately concerns that come to mind are:
o - more time to get to work
o - more cost to get to work
o - more stress and strain on the car
o - more stress and strain on me
o - less security for my parked car (not a company car)
o - travel arrangements from place of work to parked car;
particularly when working OOH
I see no advantages in having a 'Technical Support Centre' within
the Head Office', namely DECPARK. The majority of people that work
within the CSC are technical specialists, with there own culture
and techno-speak. I am not saying that they should necessarily be
isolated from the rest of the company in the UK, but my preference
is to keep 'technical' people together under one roof.
The move to the Crescent would have been most welcome two years ago,
when I first heard rumours of the possibility. From my experiences
of the building, I considered that it would be a better place to
work than the current CSC building. I felt that it may even lift
morale, despite all the negative things that were/are happening.
The Crescent, of course, has the advantage that from a travelling
perspective, it would have no impact on all current employees in
the CSC. The only shock that people would have to endure, in my
opinion, would be getting use to working in better surroundings;
more a pleasant surprise than a shock.
I fear that a move to DECPARK would provoke more losses in manpower;
we have seen too many of these lately. Of course, this is seen as
'natural wastage' by a manager (or possibly management as a whole).
In my opinion, it is an unnecessary waste of skilled people (the
company's most important asset), who will not easily be replaced.
If my 'place of work' moves to the DECPARK, I will be yet another
technical person looking for a change of employment.
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| 242.13 | Update from Bob Hoke. | KERNEL::ADAMS | Brian Adams CSC-Viables '833-3026 | Thu Nov 28 1996 08:07 | 27 |
| From: RDGMTS::RDGMTS::MRGATE::"A1CHEFS::HOKE_B"
To: @Distribution_List
CC:
Subj: I: Update on Building Move Project
From: NAME: Bob Hoke [SANDRA RONALD @UVO]
TEL: +44-(0)1256-373575/833-3575
<HOKE_B@A1CHEFS@RDGMTS@REO>
To: See Below
The Building Move Project team has now been formed and the following
people have been nominated to work this project. These people have
been chosen because they represent the broad cross section of the
employees in Viables.
Avril Nicholson Karen Maidment Brian Adams
John Weir Jon Morris Nick Ringrose
Paul Rowden Stephen Parry Claire Rock
Louise Ball David Milne
Two workshops have been arranged, these will be held on 29th November
and 6th December. We expect the final recommendation to be made by
Friday 13th December. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Regards
Bob
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