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Conference kernel::csguk_systems

Title:CSGUK_SYSTEMS
Notice:No restrictions on keyword creation
Moderator:KERNEL::ADAMS
Created:Wed Mar 01 1989
Last Modified:Thu Nov 28 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:242
Total number of notes:1855

150.0. "VAX 4000 TOPIC" by KERNEL::CLARK (STRUGGLING AGAINST GRAVITY...) Fri May 08 1992 10:39

    THIS TOPIC RESERVED FOR ISSUES RELATING TO THE VAX 4000 SERIES OF CPU'S
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
150.1VAX 4000-200 FCO KA660-O001 FLOATING POINT PROBLEMSKERNEL::CLARKSTRUGGLING AGAINST GRAVITY...Fri May 08 1992 10:41744

			    FCO NUMBER:  KA660-O001

                  REVISED FINAL CORPORATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN

	                VERSION 2.0 - January 27, 1992

	Revision 2.0 PREPARED BY:
        Rose Murphy, CSSE
        Tom Righi, US Prod. Serv. Bus Mgr.


	Revision 1.1 PREPARED BY:
        
	DIANE WEYANT/LOU POULIN
	VAX SYSTEMS SUPPORT SPE
	VOLKS::WEYANT
	DTN:  247-2549


        REVISED BY :

        PAUL MOOREN   @JGO
        HERMAN MILLET @GEO   
        REV 2.1 - February 6, 1992







			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL


				TABLE OF CONTENTS
				-----------------

1.0	EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

	1.1	Technical Summary
        1.2	Customer Statement & Notification Procedures
	1.2.2   How to Notify Customers of this FCO
 	1.3	Field Installation Synopsis
	1.4	E.Q. Kit Applicability	
	1.5	Diagnostics and Microcode
	1.6	Operating System and Application Software
	1.7	Manufacturing (ECO) Implementation
	1.8	Speed Bulletin and Microfiche Libraries
	1.9	Field Expertise Level
	1.10	General Comments

2.0	FINANCIAL IMPACT

	2.1	Material Expense
	2.2	Labor Expense
	2.3	Repair Charge
	2.4	Estimated Number of Affected Units
	2.5	Customer Charging

3.0	IMPLEMENTATION
	3.1	Expected Implementation & Completion Dates
	3.2	Special Implementation Procedures
	3.3	Population Identification
	3.4	Installation Reporting

4.0     LOGISTICS STRATEGY

        4.1     Parts data costs
        4.2     Projected material availability
        4.3     Ordering method/allocation schedule
        4.4     Material returns
        4.5     Stock purge
        4.6     End of program material

5.0     FIELD IMPLEMENTATION TEAM

        5.1     Europe

  	
6.0     ATTACHMENTS
	
	6.1	FCO Document
	6.2     Customer Letter






			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL



1.0	  EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

   1.1	  Technical Description
   	  ---------------------
          This 'O' coded FCO replaces the M7626 Cpu module for the affected 
          VAX 4000-200 systems and upgrades shipped prior to December 10, 1991
          and that have a Cpu below C.S. Revision "C".  CSS Systems and 
          Upgrades shipped prior to December 10, 1991 are also affected.

          The affected system serial numbers are as follows:
 
                      -  AY148xxxxx
                      -  KA148xxxxx
                      -  NI148xxxxx

          Note:  Any system serial numbers above these numbers are NOT affected.

          This FCO fixes the following:

          1.  Incorrect results to floating point multiply operations.
          2.  License Management Facility (LMF) password failures.
          3.  Login password failures.

   1.2	  Customer Statement & Notification Procedures
	  --------------------------------------------
          This FCO addresses a problem with the KA660 Cpu module that 
          may result in incorrect results to floating point operations.
          The problem will not be detected in most circumstances and is
          more likely to occur at temperatures significantly above normal
          office temperatures (80`F /27`C).

          Due to the critical nature of the failure (wrong answers with
          no other indications), Digital recommends that all KA660 Cpu 
          modules shipped prior to Dec. 10, 1991 be replaced as soon as 
          possible via this FCO.
    
          NOTE 1:  Module revision Cx of the M7626-AA and M7626-BA are not
                   affected

          NOTE 2:  THE INTENT IS TO PROVIDE THIS FCO AT NO CHARGE TO ALL 
                   AFFECTED CUSTOMERS (AS DEFINED PER 1.1 ABOVE) AS FOLLOWS:

	   - MATERIAL 

	     ALL AFFECTED CUSTOMERS TO RECEIVE MATERIAL (BASED ON AN EXCHANGE 
             OF DEFECTIVE MATERIAL) AT NO CHARGE.
	     
	   - LABOR

     	     ALL CONTRACT AND WARRANTY CUSTOMERS TO RECEIVE ON-SITE INSTALLA-
	     TION AT NO CHARGE.

	  WE ENCOURAGE SELF-MAINTENANCE CUSTOMERS AND INDIRECT CHANNELS/OEM
          CUSTOMERS ETC (I.E. RE-SOLD THE ORGINAL SYSTEM TO AN END-USER) TO 
          INSTALL THE FCO THEMSELVES AS APPROPRIATE. HOWEVER, UPON REQUEST, 
          DIGITAL WILL PROVIDE INSTALLATION ON A PLANNED BASIS TO ALL AFFECTED 
          CUSTOMERS. 

			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL



          AFFECTED CUSTOMERS (DEFINED PER 1.1 ABOVE) INCLUDE:
	  --------------------------------------------------

	    - ALL AFFECTED CUSTOMERS WHO PURCHASED LIST OR STANDARD WARRANTY.
	
	    - ALL AFFECTED CUSTOMERS WHOSE WARRANTY (LIST/STANDARD) HAS EXPIRED 
	      DUE TO THE TIMING OF THE FCO IMPLEMENTATION.
	
	    - ALL AFFECTED CUSTOMERS UNDER CONTRACT.

	    - ALL AFFECTED CUSTOMERS WHO ARE SELF-MAINTENANCE OR WHO PURCHASED 
              THE ORIGINAL SYSTEM AS AN INDIRECT CHANNEL/OEM ETC.

	  All affected customers need to be notified of this problem via the
	  attached Customer Letter. All affected customers will be treated
	  as Warranty Customers until the fco program has been completed.

   1.2.2  How to Notify Customers of this FCO
          -----------------------------------
	  All affected customers need to be notified of the problem via the 
          attached Customer Letter. 

          IMPORTANT NOTE :
          
          The process to use for notifying the customer in your country
          needs to be agreed with Country Marketing. This has been done
          in the UK and it showed how important this is in order to have
          a complete customer list.
  
          A sample customer letter is included in this plan. It is 
          available for your use and will only require you to insert
          the local contact and telephone number for the customer, as
          well as the Country person sending the letter to the customer.
	          
   1.3	  Field Installation Synopsis
	  ---------------------------
          Replace ALL M7626-AA/BA Cpu module revisions Ax or Bx with
          revision Cx FOR ALL APPLICABLE CUSTOMERS. This includes K&W as
	  well as Self-Maintenance if they fall in the category described in
	  Section 1.2.
 
   1.4    E.Q. Kit Applicability
 	  ----------------------
          EQ Kit Number      Contents of Kit                Used On
          -------------      ---------------                -------
          EQ-01638-01        M7626-AA CPU Module            Time Share
          FA-04974-01        FCO Document 

          EQ-01638-02        M7626-BA CPU Module            Server
          FA-04974-01        FCO Document
	
   1.5	  Diagnostics and Microcode
	  -------------------------
          Not applicable
            
   1.6    Operating System and Application Software
	  -----------------------------------------
          Operating System software is not impacted, hence no change
          to the Operating System software is required.


			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL




   1.7    Manufacturing (ECO) Implementation
   	  ----------------------------------
	  All M7626 modules that ship from manufacturing to customers will
	  contain this ECO (ECO #M7626-DSG004) as of December 5, 1991 in
          KAO and December 19, 1991 in AYO.

   1.8    Speed Bulletin and Microfiche Libraries
	  ---------------------------------------
	  The Speed Bulletin number which will contain the FCO document
	  will be available in a separate memo after the Final Plan has
	  been signed off.  The FCO will be in the EP-FSNVX-LB VAX Library.

   1.9    Field Expertise Level
	  ---------------------
 	  A Branch Engineer trained in the 4000-200 Product Family.

   1.10   General Comments
	  ----------------
	  As stated in the Customer Letter, attached, modules should be
          replaced according to priority. Non-Contract/Warranty customers
          should be given the same consideration as Contract/Warranty
	  customers.

2.0	  FINANCIAL IMPACT

   2.1    Material Expense
	  ----------------
	  EQ-01638-01/02    $1,160.78

   2.2    Labor Expense
	  -------------
	  This FCO will take approx. 1 hour to install.

   2.3    Repair Charge
          -------------
	  The repair charge will be at the rate of $250.00/per module.
	
   2.4    Estimated Number of Affected Units
          ----------------------------------
          The estimated number of affected units that will need this FCO
          Worldwide is 6,559.

   2.5    Customer Charging
          -----------------
	  All Applicable customers will receive materials and labor free of 
          charge. See attachment--Customer Letter.

	  Per Call Customers 
	  ------------------

	  DAS will insure that:

	  a) Only Non-Warranty and Non-Contract Customers receive EQ Kits.

	  b) Only the required number of EQ Kits are distributed (one EQ-
	     Kit per product/unit.)

	  c) The EQ Kits are distributed on an exchange basis for revision
	     Ax or Bx M7626-AA or M7626-BA only.  Kits are NOT to be 
	     exchanged for revision Cx or higher M7626-AA or M7626-BA.



			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL



3.0	  FIELD IMPLEMENTATION

   3.1 	  Expected Implementation & Completion Dates
	  -------------------------------------------
          Start   February 2, 1992
          End     July 1, 1992

	  End date for Non-Contract/Warranty/Self-Maintenance customers is
	  two years from start date, February 2, 1994. This is a legal 
          requirement.

   3.2    Special Implementation Procedures
	  ---------------------------------
	  This FCO will utilize the Special Call Code and travel will be 
          figured at 50%.

   3.3    Population Identification
          -------------------------
             
          Estimated Population from FRS through December 9, 1991.
          ------------------------------------------------------

           EUROPE      2,919
          
          
   3.4    Installation Reporting
          ----------------------
          Progress to plan should be reported by the Areas and CLO.












			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL
	         



4.0     LOGISTICS STRATEGY
        ------------------

   4.1    Parts data/costs
          ----------------

	  EQ KIT NUMBER	  QTY	CONTENTS               USED ON          COSTS	
	  -------------   --- 	--------               -------          -----
          EQ-01638-01      1    M7626-AA CPU Module    Time Share      $1160.78
                                FA-04974-01       

          EQ-01638-02      1    M7626-BA CPU Module    Server          $1160.78
                                FA-04974-01       
  
   4.2	  Projected Material Availability
   	  -------------------------------
          50% of the Seed material for EQ-01638-01/2 is available at this 
          moment. Remaining 50% will be available as of the 10th of
          March.

   4.3	  Ordering Method/allocation schedule
   	  -----------------------------------
          Please place one order for the whole program according the 
          column SEED/ORDER in the allocation schedule.
          Countries should send their orders ASAP to Imke Linden @JGO.
          Please note 50% of EQ-01638-01/2 will be delivered now, remai-
          ning on 10th of March.
          Please note the split for time share / server was set on 
          90% / 10%. Shipments are based on information from FMIC in Ayr. 
      
                ALLOCATION SCHEDULE EQ-01638-01/2 
                ---------------------------------
                
                -------------------------------------------
                |         | POPULATION  |   SEED/ORDER    |
                |         |             |   EQ-01638-     |   
                | COUNTRY |             |   -01    -02    |  
                |-----------------------------------------|
                |  AUST   |     59      |    10      1    |  
                |  BELG   |    144      |    24      3    | 
                |  DENM   |     36      |     6      1    |    
                |  FINL   |     44      |     7      1    |
                |  FRAN   |    595*     |   100      9    |
                |  GERM   |    620      |   102      9    |
                |  GREE   |     10      |     2      1    |
                |  HOLL   |    224      |    37      4    |
                |  HUNG   |     19      |     3      1    |
                |  IREL   |     40      |     6      1    |
                |  ISRA   |     89      |    14      2    |
                |  ITAL   |    341      |    55      4    |
                |  NORW   |     47      |     7      1    |
                |  PORT   |     19      |     3      1    |                    
                |  SPAI   |    179      |    30      3    |
                |  SWED   |    168      |    28      3    |
                |  SWIT   |    189      |    31      3    |
                |  TURK   |     18      |     3      1    |
                |  UK     |    637      |   103     11    |
                -------------------------------------------
                |         |   3478      |   571     60    |
                -------------------------------------------
                * including 48 for CDG

			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL



   4.4    Material Returns:
          -----------------

          All EQ-01638-01/2 should be returned to Nijmegen for upgrade/repair.
          Internal Turnaround time for this material in Nijmegen will be 2 
          weeks (including shipment of the defective from the country's).
 
   4.5    Stock Purge:
          ------------
               
          All M7626-AA and BA below rev. C must be purged using EQ-01638-01/2
          Please note there is a legal problem with the old revisions so it
          is very important all stock gets purged.
     
   4.6    End of Program material:
          ------------------------

          At program end all material needs to be dekitted to the M7626-AA and
          M7626-BA and offered to Nijmegen under the STIRP program.




















			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL






5.0	FIELD IMPLEMENTATION TEAM   
        -------------------------- 
   
			Support			Logistics
			-------			---------
   5.1	EUROPE   	Herman Millet		Paul Mooren



6.0	ATTACHMENTS
        ------------

   6.1  FA Document(s) (FCO Document)
   6.2  Customer Letter





			DIGITAL COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL


 
 ______________________________________________________________________________ 
| DIGITAL                  FCO                        CATEGORY        PAGE 1   |
|                                                       [ O ]           OF 3   |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| FIELD CHANGE ORDER                             NUMBER: KA660-O001            |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| APPLICABILITY: This FCO upgrades all KA660 Cpu modules (M7626-AA and         |
| M7626-BA) which are BELOW revision C.  Systems affected include all VAX 4000 |
| Model 200, VAXserver Model 200, 660XR upgrades, CSS systems and upgrades that|
| use the KA660 Cpu module and were shipped prior to 10-DEC-1991.              |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| PROBLEM & SYMPTOM:                                                           |
| This FCO addresses a problem with the KA660 Cpu module that may produce      |
| wrong answers to floating point operations.  Users may also experience       |
| LOGIN and License Management Facility (LMF) password failures.  Only         |
| revisions Ax and Bx M7626-AA and M7626-BA are affected.                      |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| SOLUTION: Replace M7626-AA/BA CPU module contained in the appropriate EQ     |
| Kit.                                                                         |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| QUICK CHECK: CPU module revision C01 or greater.                             |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| PRE/CO-REQUISITE FCO: None.			                    | MTTI HRS |
|                                                                   |  1.0     |
|___________________________________________________________________|__________|
| TOOL/TEST EQUIPMENT: None.						       |
|                      							       |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
|                              FCO PARTS INFORMATION                           |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| FCO KIT NO.  |        DESCRIPTION OF CONTENTS             | EQ KIT VARIATION |
|______________|____________________________________________|  APPLICABILITY   |
| EQ-01638-01  |   M7626-AA Time Share, Min Rev Cx          |                  |
| EQ-01638-02  |   M7626-BA Server, Min Rev Cx              |                  |
|              |                                            |       N/A        |
| FA-04974-01  |   FCO Document                             |                  |
|______________|____________________________________________|__________________|
|                            FCO CHARGING INFORMATION			       |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
|   WARRANTY/CONTRACT       ||         NONWARRANTY/NONCONTRACT                 |
|___________________________||_________________________________________________|
|   ON-SITE   |   OFF-SITE  ||  ON-SITE    |   OFF-SITE  |    MATERIAL ONLY    |
|_____________|_____________||_____________|_____________|_____________________|
|TRAVEL/| EQ  |       | EQ  ||TRAVEL/| EQ  |       | EQ  |ORDER-ADMIN,HANDLING |
|INSTALL| KIT |INSTALL| KIT ||INSTALL| KIT |INSTALL| KIT |PKG,SHIPPING & EQ KIT|
|_______|_____|_______|_____||_______|_____|_______|_____|_____________________|
| DEC   | DEC | DEC   | DEC || N/A   | N/A | N/A   | N/A |  N/A                |
|_______|_____|_______|_____||_______|_____|_______|_____|_____________________|
|                                 APPROVALS				       |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
| CSSE              | CSL LOGISTICS              | FS PRODUCT SAFETY	       |
| Lou Poulin        | Barry Weinstein		 |  Bob Brister                |
|___________________|____________________________|_____________________________|
| CSSE MANAGER	    | FS. MICROFICHE LIBRARIES   | FCO RELEASE DATE            |
| Larry Moore       |			         |  January 13, 1992           |
|___________________|		VAX		 |_____________________________|
| MICROMEDIA        |			         | FCO REVISION                |
| Diane MacDonald   |			         | B    		       |
|___________________|			         |_____________________________|
| POPULATION	    |				 | PARTS AVAILABILITY          |
| 6559		    |			         |  January 13, 1992	       |
|___________________|____________________________|_____________________________|



    

      _ _ _ _ _ _ _               |           FCO   KA660-O001
     | | | | | | | |              |               
     |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|              |           PAGE  2  OF  3
     |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|              |              
                                  |       
   _______________________________|_________________________________________


				CAUTION

	When handling any system components/options, be sure to follow
	proper ESD precautionary procedures.  Undetected damage may
	result to electronic components.  The use of the Velostat Kit
	is required, P/N 29-11762-00.


	1. Shut down the operating system by executing the appropriate 
           shutdown command procedure and/or site specific procedures.
	   Please refer to the appropriate service manual for proper 
	   shutdown, and removal and replacement procedures for your 
           system configuration.

	2. Power down the system.  Turn the ON/OFF switch to ( 0 )
	   position.

	3. Connect yourself to the system enclosure using the anti-static
	   wrist strap and cable.

	4. Remove the M7626-AA/BA CPU module from the anti-static bag
           and place on the anti-static mat.

	5. Remove the M7626-AA/BA CPU module from the system and in its
	   place install the M7626-AA/BA from the EQ Kit.

	6. Place the M7626-AA/BA which was removed from the system in the
	   anti-static bag and packaging from the EQ Kit.

	7. Re-assemble the system to its original state.

	8. Power up the system. Turn the ON/OFF switch to the ON ( 1 ) position.

	9. Verify the functional operation of the new M7626-AA/BA CPU by
	   verifying a successful completion of the Self Test.

       10. Update the Site Management Guide to reflect this FCO.

       11. Report this FCO activity on the LARS in the " Fail Area/Module/
	   FCO/Comments" column as per example on page 3.



	
    

      _ _ _ _ _ _ _               |           FCO   KA660-O001
     | | | | | | | |              |               
     |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|              |           PAGE  3  OF  3
     |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|              |              
                                  |       
   _______________________________|_________________________________________

******************************************************************************
*                                                                            *
*                                 NOTE                                       *
*	SINCE WARRANTY HAS BEEN EXTENDED ON THIS PRODUCT AND THIS FCO IS     *
*       FREE TO ALL CUSTOMERS (BOTH MATERIAL AND LABOR IF REQUESTED), THE    *
*       "NON-CONTRACT/NON-WARRANTY" AREA SHOULD BE COMPLETED AS OUTLINED     *
*       BELOW.                                                               *
******************************************************************************
				  LARS        


     CATEGORY O                    USA           GIA         EUROPE

     Activity -
     (a)Contract and Warranty       W            U           Y
     (b)IN-DEC Contract             K
        Hardware Segment Code      111           111
        Non Contract/Non Warranty   W            U           Y
     (c)RTD/Off-site Agreement      F
	Product Line		   031           031         

     DEC Option                    KA660-AA      KA660-AA    KA660-AA
         or                        KA660-BA      KA660-BA    KA660-BA
     Type of Call                  M             M           M
     Action Taken                  D             D           I
     Fail Area-Module-FCO-Comments KA660-O001    KA660-O001  KA660-O001 
     Material Used                 EQ-01638-01   EQ-01638-01 EQ-01638-01
                                   EQ-01638-02   EQ-01638-02 EQ-01638-02
                              
    (a)  Warranty Optimum, Warranty Standard and Warranty Basic (on-site) 
         Agreements.  *Note material (only) free of charge for all customers.
    (b)  Applies to INDEC AREA ONLY - Warranty Optimum, Warranty Standard 
         and Warranty Basic (on-site) Agreements.
    (c)  RTD=Return to Digital or Off-site Agreements; If Field Engineer 
         On-site, use Activity Code "F".




       
   
                                                             February, 1992
   
   Dear VAX 4000 Model 200 Customer,
    
   We have discovered a problem with the floating point processor section 
   of the CPU chip used in VAX 4000 Model 200 systems. As a result, some of 
   the VAX 4000 Model 200 Systems and Processor Modules (KA660-AA and 
   KA660-BA) shipped prior to December 1, 1991 could give wrong answers to 
   floating point operations. Since none of the other VAX 4000 system 
   models use this chip, they are not affected.
   
   Our investigation and analysis indicate that less than 1% of VAX 4000 
   model200 systems and processor modules shipped are susceptible to this 
   problem at normal office temperatures (below 80�F / 27�C). However, due 
   to the critical nature of the failure and our inability to test at 
   maximum temperatures in your environment, Digital Equipment Corporation 
   will replace all VAX 4000 model 200 Processor Modules shipped prior to 
   December 1, 1991.
   
   To ensure that all critical needs are satisfied with available 
   resources, we have put together the following support plan: 
   
   	1. Your Digital Representative should be contacting you shortly. 
   	   The intent of this letter is to ensure the widest possible 
           communication.
   
   	2. A Confidence Test which contains the worse case test patterns is 
   	   available from Digital.  Please log a call with the Customer 
   	   Support Centre (CSC) [INSERT LOCATION AND TELEPHONE NUMBER 
   	   HERE], quoting "VAX 4000-200 FPU Confidence Test".  The call 
           will be passed to your nearest Service Centre, and a service 
   	   call will be planned to install the Confidence Test on your 
   	   system.
   
        3. The Confidence Test should be run at your site as a detached 
           process to periodically monitor the integrity of the floating 
   	   point unit.  If a floating point error is detected, all users 
   	   will be notified that the system will shutdown after a 15 minute 
   	   delay. Your system manager may cancel this shutdown if he so 
   	   chooses. We recommend that you run this Confidence Test until 
   	   the module has been replaced.
   
        4. The priority for immediate module replacement will be based on 
           the following criteria:
   
   	   o Critical applications where an error could result in
             personnel injury or damage to property.
    
   	   o Modules that fail the Confidence Test.
   
   	   o Applications which are run in a high temperature environment
             (above 80� F/ 27� C).
   
     
   Our goal is to replace all modules within six months.
   	
   We regret any inconvenience that this problem may cause you and look 
   forward to resolving it as rapidly as possible.
   
   Yours sincerely,
   
   

    

To Distribution List:

sue banfield @bso,
richard ellis @sbp,
neil maidment @sbp,
mike rhodes  @bio,
mike sanderson @not,
colin houston @bvo,
janet blythe @ubo,
mervyn owen @ubo,
graham jones @ ubo,
alan wilson @ubo,
ian dempsey @ubo,
martin sampayo @eso,
john milton @eso,
mark masters @eso,
trevor bromley @rkg,
barry wells @lzo,
graham carr @lzo,
janice johnson @hhl,
stephen tennant @edo,
roger reddington @olo,
paul walton @olo,
revcon @dbo,
dave bazley @wlo,
wayne walker @eso,
karen clifton @wlc,
alison codner @wlc,
dick bailey @eoo,
paul cooper @eoo,
ian pepper @hhl,
andy brightwell @eoo,
alan james @uvo,
nigel garnett @uvo,
andrew hoare @hhl,
steve blackett @rkg,
malcolm crozier @eda,
bill neilson @edo,
ed kennedy @hhl,
chris tadd @sbp