Conference azur::mcc

Contact product management for future plans.
For the framework, Gail (DELNI::) Ferreira.
For network management, Laura (MOLAR::) Sargent.

    There are no plans to port the POLYCENTER Network Manager 200/400 to
    the OpenVMS AXP platform.  This has been the plan of record for several
    months.  
    
    bill
    

RE: .2

>    There are no plans to port the POLYCENTER Network Manager 200/400 to
>    the OpenVMS AXP platform.  This has been the plan of record for several
>    months.  

  In 'digital news & review .. May 17, 1993' there is an article on the
  front cover: "Is OSF's DME ready for prime time".  Check out page
  72 paragraph 6 ...

    "Polycenter now runs on nine platforms, including HP-UX, IBM AIX, and
    SunOS; Digital plans to port the Polycenter Framework and Common Agent
    to DEC OSF/1 and OpenVMS on the Alpha AXP later this year..."

  This is certainly what out customers are hearing (and reading).

  Which is the correct message ?

  /keith

re .2

WOW! That's MAJOR news to us in transaction processing and distributed 
queueing, who put considerable effort on layering our management on DECmcc.
Could someone who is authorized put an official statement and justification
for that decision. Also, what about other platforms ? More importantly,
does DECmcc have any future ?

Phil

Phil,

Let's separate Alpha VMS from Alpha OSF/1 !
The entire POLYCENTER program has focused it's priority on 
getting to Alpha OSF/1 immediately.  Alpha VMS just a second priority
for many of the POLYCENTER products, like the POLYCENTER Framework,
in these days around Digital where we can't do everything we'd like to.
The requests I get for POLYCENTER Frameowrk on Alpha OSF/1 exceed
Alpha VMS by many orders of magnitude  ... so we're listening.

The port of POLYCENTER Framework (DECmcc) to Alpha OSF/1 is underway !
Phil, we discussed this a few days ago --- Transaction Processing 
folks will be getting a POLYCENTER Framework kit in a couple of weeks.

As for DECmcc, we continue to move it towards OSF DME compliance.
Digital is committed to providing a Framework upon which to layer
and integrate management applications, such as management of 
Transaction processing and distributed queuing, along with 
network management, etc.


Gail Ferreira
POLYCENTER Framework Product Manager
and DME Program Manager

Thanks Gail for your clarification. This is somehow more reassuring than a
blanket statement that there are no plans for an ALPHA VMS port. 

Phil

    OK, I get it.  I've given you too much grief over the years and you
    just want to have me killed.
    
    I have a customer clammering to buy 3 Alphas (possibly 4) for running
    Polycenter NM 400 under VMS.  Information they are getting from the
    trades and from sales is that it will be ported.
    
    Information that I got from engineering within the last few weeks is
    that it will be ported.  
    
    Now I get information from product management and marketing that it
    won't.  (I'd sure like to know where all these messages are that have
    indicated "all along" that it won't be ported!)
    
    Are you certain that there are no schedules for porting PCNM 400 to
    OpenVMS Alpha????   If you say "no", the only thing I can hope for from
    my installed base is that they kill be quickly.  Then I'll be the lucky
    one.

>    Information that I got from engineering within the last few weeks is
>    that it will be ported.  
 
There is actually a reason that we in engineering direct "futures"
questions to product management.  From time to time you can squeeze an
opinion out of an engineer, but just because we *can* do something
doesn't mean that we *will* do it, or that we will do it *right now*.

For futures information, contact product management off line:

For the framework, Gail (DELNI::) Ferreira
For network management (eg PCNM 400), Laura (MOLAR::) Sargent

-- Erik

Hi,

I work as a DECmcc/POLYCENTER Framework Specialist/Consultant for DS BSS-NIS in
Frankfurt, Germany.

What I read in the previous notes is a kick the butt for me, outright. I don't
know how the regional distribution of the people calling you is (I suppose mainly
USA and America), but at least in my area approx. 90 percent of POLYCENTER frame-
work installations are on VMS, due to the lack of SNA and Terminalserver AM on
the Ultrix platform. I have ca. 30 installations in Central Germany, including
important customers like Deutsche Bank, BASF (3 installations) and Hoechst AG.

Now, we all know what timeframes to expect for a OpenVMS version, taking current
budget cuts into consideration.Since every statement in the past pointed out that
POLYCENTER Framework would be ported to both OSF/1 AND OpenVMS, this is what I
told my customers. I agree with one of the previous notes: I hope my customers
will kill me fast.

May I suggest something: When you (Engineering and Product Management) decide
such an important issue, can you please communicate the fact that you do so
BEFORE you decide? A good starter would be a distribution list of all the folks
that entered notes into this conference. The marketing guys should have their
(valuable) contacts, too.

I have often found that market acceptance and choice of platform is totally dif-
ferent between the US market and the rest of the world, which, by the way, makes
up nearly 60 percent of total sales, if my numbers are correct. I can only urge
you to be very careful when making decisions about products in the POLYCENTER
portfolio. This is extremely hot stuff for most of our customers, and unpublished
changes in announcements and product plans can do a great harm.

By the way, whenever I try to reach product management by phone, I only get a
recorded message, which points to an always busy number. Do you have a new PABX?


Yours sincerely



Joerg Maass
DS BSS-NIS, Frankfurt, Germany
DTN 861-3107
FRAIS::ORCHIS::MAASS
Joerg Maass @FRS

    I strongly agree with the people that want to have DECmcc on
    ALPHA/OpenVMS. Here in Italy we have 90% of DECmcc installations on
    VMS. The reason is very simple not all the management modules runs on
    ULTRIX. What about ours third party that developed MM under VMS (i.e.
    System Center for SNA.......)
    
    
    Raimondo Lilli
    SIC Telecom   Rome Italy
    

    In the Munich Area ( South Germany ) 90% of the customers ( about 15 ) use
    DECmcc on VMS Systems.
    They use TSAM and want to use the Polycenter SNA Manager.
    
    100% of our networkservice plattforms are based on VMS.
    
    We need DECmcc on AlphaVMS !!!!!!
    
    Karl
    Network Integration Service/Munich

Just wanted to ask (for a comment from product management, since I can't reach
anybody by phone).



Josch

Digital's POLYCENTER management products and services are a strong and vibrant
area for Digital and a critical element in meeting the customer's distributed
multivendor computing needs of today and tomorrow. 

No other vendor today has the breadth or depth of product and service offerings
like those from Digital.  For example, Today Digital products manage IBM, SUN,
HP, VMS, and U*X environments, as well as a growing number of products for
OSF/1, OpenVMS, and NT on Alpha AXP. 

Digital offers solutions for customers' system and network management needs in
the areas of: 

    	Configuration Management
    	Storage Management
    	Network Management
    	Problem/Fault Management
    	Performance/Capacity Management
    	Security Management
    	Accounting/Billing
    	Automation

These solutions will be provided through products and services from Digital and
through cooperative partnerships with third parties.  Digital has significant
product and service offerings in all of these functional areas, and POLYCENTER
currently includes products from many third parties, including UIS, Computer
Associates, RAXCO, Olivetti, VitaLink, System Center, Applitek, Alcatel,
Technically Elite Concepts, etc. 

There has been a major effort to focus management technologies across Digital to
provide a cohesive set of integrated management solutions.  As a result of these
efforts, Digital is investing in worldclass solutions for Storage Management,
Network Management and Configuration Management.  In addition, Digital will
continue to invest in areas to support distributed complex production systems,
which includes workstations and PCs. 
  
As the cornerstone of the POlLYCENTER program, is the POLYCENTER Framework.
Digital is committed to integrating all management applications through the
use of a management framework based on industry standards.  Thus, Digital 
is currently preparing a revised, streamlined Framework product, that
will ship initially on Alpha OSF/1.  A Framework product will also be
available on Alpha VMS.  Dates are not yet available for these ports.

Digital is responding to the realities of the marketplace and the changes
within Digital by accelerating the POLYCENTER strategy to incorporate
non-Digital technology into the POLYCENTER portfolio.  This means:

1) The POLYCENTER Program is taking more advantage of the growing ISV 
   market to provide complete system and network management solutions for 
   customers.  There is increasing emphasis on establishing ISV 
   partnerships and providing the necessary systems engineering to 
   integrate these applications into POLYCENTER Solutions.

2) The Enterprise Management Architecture continues to evolve to simplify
   the integration of existing ISV applications and the development of
   new ISV applications.  POLYCENTER Solutions continue to provide 
   customers with growing functionality while protecting their current 
   investments.

3) POLYCENTER Solutions are being developed to support AXP and the 
   expanding client/server market.  The next generation of Pathworks provides 
   integrated PC and PC LAN management, and are part of Digital's POLYCENTER 
   Solution.  POLYCENTER Solutions provide robust management capabilities for
   all three operating systems on Alpha servers, with increased focus on
   OSF/1 and NT.

4) POLYCENTER will address the most critical customer needs by placing a
   specific focus on network management, storage management, and software
   distribution and asset management applications.

OTHER Q & A
-----------

1) Which of the ISV's is Digital working with?

   Digital is talking with a broad range of ISV's about becoming part of the
   POLYCENTER portfolio.  These include large system vendors as well as 
   smaller software houses.  Digital wants POLYCENTER solutions to be the
   best for both our customers, and our ISV's.  Digital wants to make our
   ISV's very successful by providing easy low cost integration with other
   POLYCENTER applications.  We will be announcing specific partnership 
   details as negotiations are completed.

2) How is the POLYCENTER product portfolio evolving?  Is it being impacted
   by the downsizing across Digital?  Which products are being cut?

   The POLYCENTER portfolio is evolving to become much more open in terms
   of relying more and more on ISV partnerships, and putting more emphasis
   on the UNIX and NT operating systems.  POLYCENTER products are being 
   impacted by downsizing activities across Digital, but no specific
   product plans have been finalized.  POLYCENTER Solutions will continue
   to offer comprehensive management capabilities and customer's
   investments in POLYCENTER will be protected.

   Over time, some products may be combined or phased out as replacement
   products are made available.  This includes using ISV's to maintain and
   enhance existing POLYCENTER management applications as well as replacing
   existing applications with those from ISV's.

3) What is the future of the POLYCENTER Framework?

   The POLYCENTER Framework is incorporating both OSF DME and PC 
   Client/Server technologies.  The concept of an integrated solution
   continues to be central to the POLYCENTER strategy.  Interoperability,
   based on object oriented technology, across other ISV frameworks 
   and applications is a key component in this strategy.  Therefore, 
   the POLYCENTER Framework will incorporate these new technologies and 
   interoperate with other frameworks and applications.

4) Does that mean that Digital will be moving away from the POLYCENTER
   Framework and adopting HP OpenView?

   The POLYCENTER Framework is incorporating new technologies and will
   interoperate with other ISV frameworks and applications.  We are 
   having discussions with a wide range of potential partners which range 
   from system vendors to small software houses.  

5) It is rumored that Digital's Software Engineering Group is being 
   substantially downsized.  How will this impact Digital's ability to
   deliver POLYCENTER solutions?

   Digital is already delivering a strong portfolio of POLYCENTER products
   and services.  These are available for customers today and continue
   to be enhanced.  POLYCENTER engineering is participating in Digital's 
   overall downsizing, but the anticipated impact on delivering customer 
   solutions should be minimal.  We plan on increasing our emphasis on ISV
   partners to deliver on our vision of a totally automated system and
   network environment.  Digital will focus on combining these POLYCENTER
   products into integrated solutions through System Integration services 
   and system engineering.  This will insure best-in-class solutions for
   our customers.

    re: .-1
    
    I cannot but help to think that there is an *awful* lot not
    being said here.....
    
    There are, understandably, a large number of rumours floating
    around having to do with the future (or lack thereof) of the
    Framework product that we are offering today.
    
    I am not comforatable with what is and (specifically) is not
    being said here.  If the field is expected to continue to sell
    today's management products, it is extremely important that
    we understand what the future intentions *really* are.
    
    Even though I see the words "Polycenter Framework" being used
    to describe the future plans....I am fairly certain that we
    are not talking about the existing DECmcc-based product nor
    the ability to even be able to take AMs/FMs/etc and use them
    in the future.  This is a problem!  It is vital to our success
    that we understand more of what is being negotiated and planned
    so that we can properly position Digital and our product futures.
    
    Otherwise, I see no alternative but to tell customers that we are
    planning to make "some sort of change"....but it won't allow
    any investment protection of custom modules and other possible
    problems.
    
    	-Jeff

    I do also think that this .13 Statement is very nebulous marketing talk
    and not much hard facts.
    
    We and our Customers have put a lot of effort to get the existing
    Framework to "appear" usable.
    
    If there are major Changes in API's , Command Language etc..
    i am quite sure we loose any Customer Confidence.
    They will never again make the mistake to invest into a DEC Mgt
    Product. (MSU,DECnet Monitor...)
    
    I personally think that especially the Statement in .13 about OPENview 
    sounds so weak, its close to an Announcement...
    
    So in simple words: 
    What is the Future???
    VMS full development or Dead End at Vxx ??
    Ultrix Users have to migrate to Alpha OSF anyhow, so is
    OSF "DECmcc Flavour"?  or pure OSF DME without backward Compatibility.
    
    If the News are bad, we need to know them now to do Damage Control.
    
    If the News are good we get some motivation to put even more effort in the
    selling of the Products.
    
    
    						Guenter

    re .13
    
    This is a standard DECUS party line type statement.  Is this  supposed to 
    motivate and give an advantage to the sales and support organizations 
    ability to sell and support the POLYCENTER Framework?
                                                          

Hello,

For my opinion, it is realy important that we get the real facts. It can be
dangerous to give wrong information to our customers. Special in the time we are 
now, all are planing their investments and our customers want to have the savety
to do the right investments, also for the future.
 
If we want to win, we have to give our customers safety that they do the right 
thing for their future. Without clear statements, we can't give any 
recomondations or even more bad the wrong ones.

I don't know the situation in other countries, but here in Switzerland I get 
often questions about things like operatingsystem, future, new MM ....

So please forward real facts and news, to stop the rumors and to stop all the 
wrong infos we give to our customer because of rumors !!!

Roland Schneider
DC Switzerland

This reply was originally cross posted by WELLIN::MCCALLUM.
Since the original note from the Polycenter conference was corrected,
I have inserted the corrected version here as well.

-- Erik


               <<< VINO::PORT:[NOTES$LIBRARY]POLYCENTER.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< POLYCENTER >-
================================================================================
Note 153.37                     What's going on ?                       37 of 38
VINO::GRUPPOSO                                      186 lines   9-AUG-1993 08:39
                  -< POLYCENTER Portfolio Status (CORRECTED) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital will continue to offer a full portfolio of system and network 
management products to meet customer requirements. In order to provide
competitive solutions in all areas, Digital will increasingly work with 
third party vendors to fill the POLYCENTER portfolio.

We are re-looking at the entire strategy to determine what we can deliver, 
on what operating systems, at what cost, and how we can deliver it.  We 
are focused on consolidating and buying technology when it is available on 
the market rather than investing in developing it ourselves. 

We will keep you informed as we progress with decisions on products and 
the development of new relationships.  

As part of that effort, we have included here a segment-by-segment (often
a product-by-product) breakdown of what is happening with the POLYCENTER
Solution.  The information below is the latest available. Again, we
will let you know if and when changes occur.

Automation

POLYCENTER Scheduler will continue development as planned for additional 
functionality and platforms.

Continue to Sell?  YES


DECathena 

Our strategy with DECathena has not changed.  The next release (v1.2) with 
OSF/1 server and client support, full SUN (SOLARIS V1.1 and V2.2 ) 
server support and SGI client support, as well as new functionality in 
enhanced security and a completely new administration GUI, will be available 
in September.  Work is in progress on the following version (v2.0) which 
will be DCE conformant, have a new heirarchical management structure, 
increase the client flexibility, and integrate with other POLYCENTER products, 
such as DECnsr and POLYCENTER Performance Solution.

Continue to Sell?  Yes

Fault Management

Some changes will occur in the fault management area of the POLYCENTER 
Solution. Digital will focus on those areas where we can bring the most 
benefit to our customers.  In some areas we believe it will be more 
advantageous to our customers to offer them products engineered by outside 
sources.

DECalert

Customers who have DECalert will be supported and can buy additional licenses.
Outsourcing alternatives for further development of this product are being 
investigated.

Continue to Sell?   NO

POLYCENTER System Watchdog

POLYCENTER System Watchdog is a supported product. We are investigating
both internal and third party sources to determine if there is a more 
advantageous offering for our customers. No agreement has been reached at 
this time and any arrangement would include support for existing customers.

If a customer has Data Center Monitor (DCM), we recommend migrating them to 
POLYCENTER System Watchdog now as it will provide them with a supported
product and ensure they are on a migration path, if a deal is finalized with
a third party.

Continue to Sell?   YES

VCS and POLYCENTER Console Manager

Our direction is and has been to provide a single console management 
product which operates from several platforms. We are committed to making 
this an easy and cost-effective change for our existing VAXcluster Console 
System (VCS) customers, if they need the added functionality of the newer
product. A PID is in review and will be available in August.

Continue to Sell?   YES


POLYCENTER Network Management and Framework

POLYCENTER Network Management and Framework are alive and well.   There will
be an evolution in the products we offer, particularly as we move to
Digital's new AXP platforms, but we will not decrease functionality. 

Since many critical management applications are available only on UNIX, our
initial focus will be on OSF/1 AXP, followed by NT AXP and OpenVMS AXP for
POLYCENTER Management servers (frameworks).  We are committed to managing
OpenVMS VAX, OpenVMS AXP, ULTRIX, OSF/1 AXP, Sun, IBM AIX, HP, NT AXP, and
NT Intel systems from those servers. 

We will continue support for the OpenVMS VAX and ULTRIX versions of the
POLYCENTER Framework, POLYCENTER Network Manager, and POLYCENTER SNMP
Manager.  Details about support for specific releases of the operating
systems and support for new processors will follow. 

On OSF/1 AXP, we will absolutely be delivering the kind of POLYCENTER
Framework, POLYCENTER SNMP Manager and POLYCENTER Network Manager
capabilities that are required for and appropriate to a UNIX environment
(commercial or technical, multi-vendor, etc.).  In deciding how to provide
these capabilities, we must look at ways that meet customer needs, meet
time-to-market requirements, and lead to Digital profitability.  We are
considering the product functions that we deliver now through the POLYCENTER
OpenVMS and ULTRIX network management products named above and determining 
what portions of those should be ported vs. what we can better accomplish by 
incorporating and/or buying technology from other 3rd party and "industry 
standard" frameworks currently available in the market.  We will definitely 
deliver a POLYCENTER solution for network management on OSF/1 AXP, but it 
probably will not be a line-for-line port of the current products.  This 
direction is extremely sensitive and should not be conveyed to your customer 
prematurely.  We are working on a customer statement which we will have 
available in late August.

Our goal is to have a network management product on OSF/1 AXP in the 
Q3'FY94 timeframe.  This is not as yet a committed engineering schedule, more 
of a market/product requirement placed on engineering.


Continue to Sell?  YES


Performance Management

We are currently porting the POLYCENTER Performance Solution OpenVMS 
Data Collector and Performance Advisor to OpenVMS AXP.  These products are 
planned to FRS in December 1993. A new capacity planning product which will 
run on OpenVMS VAX and AXP, OSF/1 AXP and RISC ULTRIX will ship shortly 
thereafter.  

Continue to Sell?  YES

DECtrace will port to OpenVMS AXP in the short term.  Our intent is to 
provide an OSF/1 AXP version with client server support somewhat later.

Continue to Sell?  YES


Security Management


The POLYCENTER Security family of products are supported. They and 
their associated services can and should still be sold.  

In the interest of providing a good, cost-effective security solution to 
our customers and internal Digital, we have been negotiating with a third 
party and an internal organization.  If an arrangement is concluded 
internally, obviously no migration will be required; if with a third party, 
migration and support of the installed base (including internal) will be 
part of the agreement.

It should be emphasized that negotiations are ongoing. No deal has been 
made as yet and  an internal solution is still possible.


Continue to Sell?  Yes



Software Asset Management

Much work is being done in the area of software asset management.  POLYCENTER 
System Census V 1.1 will be shipping on MS Windows shortly, providing inventory
capabilities for the PC LAN as well as integrating the data with the
enterprise product running on OpenVMS or ULTRIX.

Current product development work includes the integration of POLYCENTER System
Census and software distribution capabilities under one graphical user 
interface.  This prduct will extend platform coverage to include OSF/1 AXP,
MS-Windows and MS-DOS target systems, with FCS anticipated in Q3 FY94.

Continue to Sell?  YES

Storage Management

Development in the storage management area continues with no basic changes
in strategy or direction.  A number  of new products will be announced over the 
next 12 months on multiple platforms as we strive to increase customer 
satisfaction in this area and allow for true client/server computing.


Continue to Sell?  YES