Conference azur::mcc

Hello Bj�rn,

I ran a test on our system, using a seed node in area 4, choosing option
3, "All DECnet Phase IV nodes in a LAN".  Autoconfiguration found
level 1 and level 2 routers, in addition to end nodes.

The top level map shows level 1 and level 2 routers and a bunch
of domains, as you mentioned.  These domains contain end nodes, 
and in some cases more routers.  Some of these domains represent
clusters, others just collections of nodes.

How is this different from the behavior you are seeing?
    
Are you running on VMS or Ultrix?

Thanks,

Ulla
    
PS.  In what area is your seed node?
    

I'm running DECmcc on VMS, and my MCC node is in area 50 (has been in hidden 
area 62 earlier). I entered multiple seed nodes, to be sure I got all nodes 
on the LAN. I entered my own mcc node as a seed node (which is an end node) and
one router in area 50 and one router in area 62. These routers where all VAX/VMS
nodes running DECnet-VAX Phase IV. But still I haven't got any end nodes from 
the autoconfig.

Bj�rn Olav Haugom

    
    Hello Bj�rn,
    
    Is it possible that the seed node you are entering is a level
    2 router?
    
    This might explain the behavior you are seeing.  Level 2 routers
    only know about level 1 routers.  So, if you specify a level
    2 router as a seed node, Autoconfiguration will find all the level
    1 routers that that seed node knows about.
    
    Since each cluster must have at least one level 1 router, the domains
    you are seeing (clusters), without members, could be the level 1
    routers which are members of those clusters.
    
    Area 62 is hidden.  The DECnet Phase IV Autoconfiguration software
    does not support searches in hidden areas.
    
    Regards,
    
    Ulla  
    
                                              

>    This might explain the behavior you are seeing.  Level 2 routers
>    only know about level 1 routers.  So, if you specify a level
>    2 router as a seed node, Autoconfiguration will find all the level
>    1 routers that that seed node knows about.
    
Unless I'm confused about what is said here I don't believe the above
statement holds true in DECnet. L2 routers should know the routing table
for their specific area for all 1024 nodes. That is, an L2 router routes
out-of-area packets but also has a built in L1 router for taking care of
all in-area packets as well. The following command shows the route table
of an L2 router and it shows a route for every reachable address in area 55
plus its adj areas.

MCC> show node4 bblk01 remote node * all status

best regards,
brad...


                                              

    I would like to reiterate the sentiments of .4...
    
    In the area that we are looking to manage, there is only one router,
    a L2 router.  This router is by default the designated L1 router for
    the area and has adjacency information for all nodes in the area.
    I don't see why I shouldn't be able to autoconfigure this area!
    
    David

I've seen the same behavior.  If, in autotopology, I choose "all nodes
in a LAN" with a Level 2 router as the seed, I get only routers - no
end nodes.  Now, the LAN happens to be just a single area, so when I
choose "all nodes in an area", (with the same seed router), I get ALL
of the nodes, including the end-nodes.

	- Andy

My seed node is a Routing IV node, ie Level 1 router.


Re.6

>>          Now, the LAN happens to be just a single area, so when I
>> choose "all nodes in an area", (with the same seed router), I get ALL
>> of the nodes, including the end-nodes.
 
I don't want to use "all nodes in an area", because the area expands throughout
the nordic countries. I'm interested in only those nodes that are on my LAN.

Bj�rn Olav

I'm still waiting for the solution to my problem.

I still don't understand why I don't get my end-nodes autoconfigured in
DECmcc. There are no entries for the end nodes in the map files. I've manually
configured one of the doamins with end nodes, but the rest is blank (one domain
for each Cluster).

What do I have to do?

Bj�rn Olav Haugom

The autoconfig team is aware of your question.
However, they are working full time to meet a coding deadline,
and have not have time to investigate this problem.

Please be patient with us during this period of intense effort.

-- Erik

	Hi Bj�rn,
	
	First thanks for trying Autoconfig. Second thanks for waiting. And now for
	a request for more waiting!

	While I am trying to get you an answer, could try your autoconfig search
	with an end node on your LAN as a seed node? I would expect that
	this should be able to get you all nodes on your LAN. Although 
	I would have expected L1 router to do the same.

	Also try the following command on the L1 router:

	ncp> tell <l1 router> show known circuites 

	Does it have circuites open to all the nodes of your interest?

	Thanks again for your wait.

	- Anil Navkal


                                  <<< Note 2477.8 by OSLACT::BJORN "Soon to be changing dipers" >>>
                                                    -< Any more ideas on this? >-

I'm still waiting for the solution to my problem.

I still don't understand why I don't get my end-nodes autoconfigured in
DECmcc. There are no entries for the end nodes in the map files. I've manually
configured one of the doamins with end nodes, but the rest is blank (one domain
for each Cluster).

What do I have to do?

Bj�rn Olav Haugom

I still don't understand the term seed node.

My level 1 router which I specify as a seed node "see" other routers on my lan.

The known circuits to these routers shows this output.

NCP>  tell osl01       show known circuits


Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 24-MAR-1992 11:04:20

   Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
                                              Name      Routing Node

  BNA-0             on                               50.665 (SNORRE)
  BNA-0                                              50.91 (OSL06)
  BNA-0                                              50.352 (OSLIS3)
  BNA-0                                              50.671 (OSLIS2)
  BNA-0                                              50.663 (OSLLEG)
  BNA-0                                              50.141 (OSL08)
  BNA-0                                              50.358 (OSLIS)
  BNA-0                                              50.152 (OSL10)
  BNA-0                                              50.684 (OSLRT1)
  BNA-0                                              50.991 (NWOPST)
  SVA-0             off


The Autoconfig procedure finds these nodes (routers), but the end nodes are
missing. So something about the algoritm must be wrong. Or is there anything
wrong with our setup on the seed node? OSL01 is our most updated DECnet node
in our LAN, and contains all known nodes in DEC, (more or less).

Specifying an end node as a seed node didn't give me any different result than
using a router as a seed node.


Bj�rn Olav

    Olav,
    
    	I encounter exact the same situation, or at least a very similar
    one.  I tried to Autotopology ALL DECnet nodes,  I only found the
    routing nodes of my configuration.  I tried to use my DECmcc station as
    a seed node as wel as a L1 router (There are no level 2 routers, and I
    am running only 1 area.  I cannot find any Ethernet end node !
    
    The selection "ALL DECnet nodes" or "DECnet nodes on the LAN" gives
    exact the same results: only the routing nodes appear.
    
    Regards,
    	Dominique.

You folks may be aware of this already, but just in case...

SHOW KNOWN CIRCUITS SUMMARY will show only adjacent routers on broadcast
circuits.  SHOW KNOWN CIRCUITS STATUS, however, will show all adjacent
nodes.  (See Phase IV Network Management spec T4.3.0, table 7.2.)  Maybe
Autotopology is asking for the wrong one?

SUMMARY is the default you get with NCP.  

-Lance-

If Autotopology is using the wrong one (SUMMARY instead of STATUS), will this
be fixed in time for the next EFT? or for V1.2? I'm a bit nervous about this
because we need a good Autotopology tool for DECnet.

Another question at the same time. The map produced by autoconfig is quite
messy. The icons are placed on top of each other and the lines are crossing
each other in a variety of ways. The map is also placed in the upper right 
corner of the navigation area, and sometimes part of it disappears outside of
the navigation area. Will we have any ways of telling autoconfig how large 
area to use for the map, like the TCP/IP autoconfig?

Bj�rn Olav

	Hi Bj�rn,

	Yes we do use the command tell foo show active circuit summ to
	see the adjacency info. I have now modified it to get status
	instead of summary. I am in a process of testing it. 
	
	If all goes well EFT update should have the final EXE.
	In the mean tine Bj�rn, can you contact me offline so that 
	I can have my new exe tested at your end? Thanks,

	I will also try from my end to map your network
	to see if I get all end nodes on your lan on the 
	map.

	Thanks for all your support and patience!

	- Anil