Conference azur::mcc

69.0. "DECmcc, NCL and DECmcc/NCL" by CCIIS1::ROGGEBAND (_ �hili��e _) Thu Mar 08 1990 08:50

    Hello,
    
    You'll find below a discussion on DECmcc, NCL and DECmcc/NCL and the
    relationship between them which was started off in the APPLE::NETMGT.
    It was mentionned that a more appropriate place was here, so here
    we go !
    
    
               <<< ENUF::$1$DUA4:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NETMGT.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< Network Management >-
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Note 146.0                         DECmcc NCL                          5 replies
CCIIS1::ROGGEBAND "_ �hili��e _"                     40 lines   7-MAR-1990 11:45
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    Hello !
    
    Could anyone provide some clarification on the following: it was
    my understanding that NCL was the replacement for NCP, and as such
    was provided with DECnet Phase V. So far so good. 
    
    I then heard that DECmcc would probably be bundled with DECnet 
    Phase V, though not in the first version, and that it would not
    be possible for customers to extend it in the FM area, but that
    they would be able to enroll AM's. Again, this is ok.
    
    Now, I have come across some references to something which is known
    as "DECmcc NCL". I also saw a presentation of DECnet Phase V
    Management, where I was told that NCL is extensible (sounds familiar!)
    and, to be extended, all you do is add new objects defined in MSL
    (sounds very familiar !).
    
    So, my questions are : 
    
    Are DECmcc and NCL basically the same code but packaged differently?
    What is DECmcc NCL ? Am I right in thinking that NCL and DECmcc share
    some code, but that one is a "reduced" version of the other ? Or
    is  NCL = TRM PM + Control FM + DNA CMIP AM ? Or is that DECmcc NCL ?
    
    Will DECmcc and NCL share data ? Will they share Parse tables ? Will
    they share the dictionary ? 
    
    If so, will it be possible for a customer to add MSL definitions of new
    objects which support CMIP to manage them from NCL, or will the
    parse tables used by NCL be "locked" ? (Should I ask this question
    in the DECnet-VAX Notesfile ?) 
    
    If NCL can manage DECdns and DECdts, will DECmcc also be able to
    do it ?  
    
    I won't make this question more confused by bringing in DECmcc SMS
    and DECmcc EMS (or DECmcc TCP/IP), but boy ! Sometimes, I wonder
    how the customers will make heads or tails from all this !!!

    �hR.
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Note 146.1                         DECmcc NCL                             1 of 5
ULYSSE::LATOUCHE "VBO IT/ACT"                        82 lines   8-MAR-1990 04:17
                          -< DECMCC is a big family >-
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    Hello Philippe,
    
    I followed the DECMCC FT in the US in february. That point was raised,
    and here comes what I understood from the discussion :
    
    Effectively, you have several DECMCC :
    
    DECMCC/SMS, DECMCC/EMS, DECMCC/NCL, DECMCC Director, DECMCC Lan Manager
    and DECMCC Tool Kit; it's a big family !
    
    So, let's go to see what 's in there !
    
    
    a) DECMCC/NCL V1.0 is composed of the
    
       . Management Information Repository (database)
       . Phase IV and Phase V Access Modules
       . Configuration and Control Functional Modules
       . Command line Presentation Interface
    
       In the following versions, a Icon oriented PM and a Domain FM will
       be added.
    
    b) DECMCC/Lan Manager V1.0 is composed of
    
       .DECMCC/NCL V1.0
       .Terminal server and Bridge AM
    
    c) DECMCC Director V1.0 is composed of
       
       .DECMCC/NCL V1.0
       .Ethernet and bridge AM
       .Alarm FM
    
       Future versions of DECMCC director will have Performance Analysis
       FM, Historical Data Recording FM, Terminal server AM, FDDI AM,
       DEMMR AM
    
    d) DECMCC/SMS, DECMCC/EMS V1.0 is composed of
      
       . current existing products (NMCC, Ethernim, RBMS, TSM, ...)
    
       DECMCC/SMS, DECMCC/EMS V2.0 is composed of
       
       .DECMCC Director V1.0
       .TSM, LTM and NMCC (all the products that are not yet replaced by
        the DECMCC Director V1.0)
    
       next releases of DECMCC/SMS,EMS will include next releases of
       DECMCC Director.
    
    e) DECMCC Tool Kit is composed of
      
       .Software Tool kit
       .SRM
       .AM Programming guide
    
    Voila, I hope this clarify a little bit your confusion.
    
    From a pricing structure, I think that the strategy is to show to the
    customer that it will cost less for him to buy NOW DECMCC/SMS, EMS
    and then benefit from the free software upgrades to V2.0, ... compared if
    they would wait and buy directly the DECMCC Director when available.
    (Am I right ?)
    
    Meanwhile, what I'm not sure with the above, is that it might be less
    expensive to buy the product now looking to the pricing list, but from a 
    user perspective,the gain is not sure because this will cost him a lot on 
    the operational side :
    
    . Buy DECMCC/EMS or EMS V1.0 ...> Train people, configure tools
    . upgrade to V2.0 ..............> Re train people, re configure tools
    
    If he goes directly to the DECMCC Director and plug and play, this will
    reduce his operational costs (training, configuration, ...)
    
    ... My two cents if I was a customer ...
    
    Marc.
    
    
    
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Note 146.2                         DECmcc NCL                             2 of 5
CCIIS1::ROGGEBAND "_ �hili��e _"                     16 lines   8-MAR-1990 05:09
                         -< Still not quite clear... >-
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    Marc,
    
    Thanks for the information. I had the part about DECmcc EMS and
    DECmcc SMS and DECmcc director figured out, but I still don't know if
    DECmcc NCL and the basic NCL provided with DECnet/OSI Phase V are
    the same, or if NCL is a somewhat less powerful tool, which can
    only be extended by Internal DEC engineering groups to provide support
    for DECnet related products (ie DECdts, DECdns, PSI).
    
    In other words : is the basic tool provided with DECnet/OSI Phase
    V the DECmcc director , or is it something less complex (and perhaps
    less cpu/performance consuming) ?
    
    �hR.
    
    
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Note 146.3                         DECmcc NCL                             3 of 5
ULYSSE::LATOUCHE "VBO IT/ACT"                        24 lines   8-MAR-1990 05:59
                            -< NCL or DECMCC/NCL ? >-
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    Philippe,
    
    DECMCC/NCL and NCL are not exactly the same :
    
    What I understood from previous weeks was that :
    
    . NCL and DECMCC/NCL share codes where adequate, because obviously
      a lot of functions are similar.
    
    . Meanwhile they are different in the sense that :
    
      - NCL doesn't use the full Management Information Repository,
        but a subset of that database (mainly for performance reasons for
        small CPU systems)
    
      - DECMCC/NCL uses the Management Information Repository, has the
        command line interface like NCL, but also a Screen Base Format;
        in the future, other interfaces (Icon ?) might come.
    
    NCL currently provide support to DECnet-Vax, DNS, DTSS, PSI, LAT and
    devices.
    
    Marc.
    
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Note 146.4                         DECmcc NCL                             4 of 5
MARVIN::DAVISON "Eric Davison"                       19 lines   8-MAR-1990 08:05
                       -< Lots of NCLs, all compatible >-
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    Some clarification is still needed. There are several NCLs - there is
    the DECnet-VAX NCL, the DECnet-Ultrix NCL and the DECmcc/NCL. These are
    all different implementations, although they have used some common code
    as pointed out in earlier replies (DECnet-VAX's CML [CMIP listener] was
    developed by the DECmcc developers).
    
    The NCLs supplied by DECnet-VAX and DECnet-Ultrix only need to use a
    subset of information from the MSLs, since they don't need to know all
    the stuff that DECmcc will handle. I don't know about the support for
    adding new modules (MSLs) to the DECnet-VAX NCL when it ships, but
    we're currently able to change and rebuild them inside engineering. I
    guess it depends on who is shiping the tools that build NCL parse
    tables, they were developed by MCC and I doubt if DECnet-VAX will be
    shipping them on their kits.
    
    It might be worth moving this discussion to TOOK::MCC ?
    
    Eric
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Note 146.5                         DECmcc NCL                             5 of 5
CCIIS1::ROGGEBAND "_ �hili��e _"                      4 lines   8-MAR-1990 08:48
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    Ok, it's getting clearer, I'll move all of this out to TOOK::MCC, as I
    have more questions which are DECmcc related !!!
    
    �hr.
    

    Here is what I understood from all the replies to the original note, as
    well as the questions which remain outstanding : 
    
    1) We have DECmcc, "the real thing" which is an extensible
    "plug'n'play" full implementation of an EMA director, which supports
    multiple Entities and multiple protocols. One of the available
    "packages made up around that is called DECmcc/NCL, it is basically a
    DECmcc kernel, a MIR, TRM PM, Control FM, config FM, DNA CMIP AM and
    NICE AM. There will be other "packages" built around DECmcc, such
    as DECmcc/LAN Manager, but these are outside the scope of this question.
    
    2) We have NCL which is another implementation of an EMA director,
    which is extensible in that is supports multiple entities, but only
    one protocol (CMIP). New entites supported are added by building
    new parse tables based on MSL specifications. This will be done
    only by Engineering groups, the Parse table Builder will probably
    not ship with DECnet-VAX (makes sense!). (btw is it the same PTB
    which is part of the DECmcc Toolkit ???)

    Outstanding questions :
    
    1) Do DECmcc and NCL share any data ? 
    
    2) Will DECmcc be able to manage DECdts and DNS ?
    
    �hR.

    I am not going to try to answer everything at once; I still have
    to absorb half of what you have presented.
    
    Okay some history. When Dawn Banks started work on NCL she worked
    with the DECmcc development team in initiating her design. As you
    have figured out NCL uses something that sure looks like the DECmcc
    Directors Parse Table Builder (PTB). When Dawn started she was given
    all of the Director tools (MSL, DAP, and PTB). Since the original
    versions I do not know if Dawn has updated to the newer PTB formats
    and tool enhancements; it is my understanding that she has not,
    but that NCL still uses the original versions of these tools. 
    
    Since the tools and their internal storage formats have changed
    the tables created are not interchangeable; but the premise of
    enrollability/extensibility is.
    
    At this point the only data that is shared, is what has actually
    already been shared and modified to meet the needs and restrictions
    of NCL. Code, MSLs, and tools have all been openly shared during
    the course of development.
    
    Regarding DECdts and DNS I will see what I can do about finding
    you an answer.
    
hope some of this helps; most of it you had already figured out.    
    

    Thanks Jill, 
    
    It's getting a lot clearer. In case you're wondering why I'm asking all
    this, I have to present DECnet Phase V Network Management and EMA at
    the french DECUS Symposium, and I know I'll get a lot of questions !! 
    
    �hR.

    
    You might want to drop a line to Steve Wong (TOOK::WONG) he
    did some stuff an NTU recently that you might find of interest.
    
    jill