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Conference waylay::singles_chat

Title:A place for gabby single folk
Moderator:PCBUOA::DEWITT
Created:Thu Jan 09 1997
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:69
Total number of notes:5349

33.0. "White Water Rafting trip..." by ORION::KENYON () Mon Jan 20 1997 22:13

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
33.1CSLALL::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentTue Jan 21 1997 07:5710
33.2PCBUOA::DEWITTrunning on fire and dreams...Tue Jan 21 1997 08:027
33.3I'm a maybe...WAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerTue Jan 21 1997 08:355
33.4White Water RaftingSUBSYS::K_WOODWARDTue Jan 21 1997 08:569
33.5CSLALL::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentTue Jan 21 1997 09:0511
33.6DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Tue Jan 21 1997 10:047
33.7man overboaaaardTBC001::DROVERHEDGEHOGTue Jan 21 1997 10:063
33.8Simple rulesWAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerTue Jan 21 1997 10:086
33.9DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Tue Jan 21 1997 10:186
33.10SUBSYS::K_WOODWARDTue Jan 21 1997 11:516
33.11Its' pretty safe.. (-;BOOKIE::KENYONTue Jan 21 1997 12:4412
33.12woopsBOOKIE::KENYONTue Jan 21 1997 12:453
33.13CSLALL::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentTue Jan 21 1997 13:138
33.14DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Tue Jan 21 1997 13:2111
33.15We didn't lose anybody... ;-)WAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerTue Jan 21 1997 13:268
33.16DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Tue Jan 21 1997 13:306
33.17BOOKIE::KENYONTue Jan 21 1997 17:599
33.18PCBUOA::DEWITTrunning on fire and dreams...Wed Jan 22 1997 08:493
33.19My Jossy can sit tooWRKSYS::BROWERWed Jan 22 1997 09:239
33.20PCBUOA::DEWITTrunning on fire and dreams...Wed Jan 22 1997 09:264
33.21I called the rafting company...BOOKIE::KENYONWed Jan 22 1997 15:4326
33.22I'm gameWRKSYS::BROWERThu Jan 23 1997 11:207
33.23CBROWN::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentThu Jan 23 1997 11:247
33.24post some dates..WRKSYS::BROWERThu Jan 23 1997 11:299
33.25the date is still up for grabs...ORION::KENYONThu Jan 23 1997 13:118
33.26HAZMAT::WEIERThu Jan 23 1997 13:386
33.27CBROWN::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentThu Jan 23 1997 13:457
33.28Data pointWAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerThu Jan 23 1997 14:414
33.29How about the 12th?BOOKIE::KENYONThu Jan 23 1997 15:036
33.30DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Thu Jan 23 1997 15:236
33.31good for meCBROWN::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentThu Jan 23 1997 15:485
33.32BOOKIE::KENYONThu Jan 23 1997 16:339
33.33CSLALL::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentFri Jan 24 1997 08:073
    This sounds so great!  I'm daydreaming already!
    
    					cj *->
33.34HITOPS::OCONNOR_JFri Jan 24 1997 08:531
    The 12th works for me.  
33.35BOOKIE::KENYONMon Jan 27 1997 13:4316
    Hi,
    
    The rafting/camping trip will be the 11th, 12th, and 13th of July.  I
    need a definate count by this Friday on who will be rafting.  Please
    send mail to WHYNOW::KENYON and let me know if you are just camping or
    camping/rafting...  
    
    The rafting will cost $100.  $50 is due up front and it is
    non-refundable.   We can put as many as 9 people in a boat.
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
      
    
    
33.36the list so far...BOOKIE::KENYONThu Jan 30 1997 17:0314
    Hi,
    
    Here is the list for rafting thus far.. (-;
    
    Bob Brower
    Mike ? Brower
    Elora ? Brower
    Barb Asketh
    Mike Rogers
    Joan O'Connor
    Kathleen Kenyon
    
    
    
33.37BOOKIE::KENYONMon Feb 03 1997 13:0325
    Hi,
    
    Here is the list of those that will be rafting:
    
    Kathleen Kenyon
    Barb Asketh
    Doug Gordon
    Mike Rogers
    Bob, Mike, Elora Brower
    Joan O'Connor
    
    Please send a check for $50 to me (Kathleen Kenyon) at mailstop
    ZKO1-2/D59.  Make the check payable to "Crab Apple White Water Inc."
    and in the memo section please print "Kenyon Party".
    
    Please send me mail if you are camping only.  
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
    
    
    
    
    
33.38BOOKIE::KENYONWed Feb 05 1997 12:2310
    Hi,
    
    I booked the trip today... The date is July 12th (rain or shine).  
    I have requested information from the campground, I should get that 
    within the week.
    
    we're off.. (-;
    
    
     
33.39Campground information - dog friendlyBOOKIE::KENYONMon Feb 10 1997 07:0914
    Hi,
    
    I got the information on the campground.  The campground is "dog
    friendly".  Dogs are welcome as long as they are restrained at all
    times and not left unattended.  COOL.. Bud was happy... (-;
    I'll put all the information in later today.   
    
    Please get your $50 to me as soon as possible.  I got the invoice 
    in the mail, and need to send out a check by the end of next week.    
    
    Thanks,
    Kathleen
    
    
33.40campground information - longBOOKIE::KENYONTue Feb 11 1997 12:14108
    Hi,
    
    Here is the campground information:
    
    LAKEFRONT CAMPING AT INDIAN POND on the headwaters of the Kennebc
    River.  Central Main Power (CMP) has developed Indian Pond Campground 
    with 27 campsites at the southerly end of Indian Pond.  The campground has
    drive-in setups for tents, trailers, and self-contained units 22 sites
    and tent platforms on the other 5 sites.  There is a group fire site
    available for social gatherings.  A picnic table and fire ring is
    provided at each site.  There are no hookups, but there is an RV dump
    station.
    
    The company (CMP) also proivdes a public boat ramp and a day use picnic
    area adjacent to teh campground.  All facilities are handicap
    accesslible including the coin operated shoers and laundry. 
    Additionally, water access primitive campsites are located and
    maintained around the shore and on serveral islands on Indian Pond.
    
    Activities:
    
    Harris Dam tour - tours of harris dam (maine's largest hydroelectric
    developement project) adn the powerhouse are available by prior
    arrangement through the Indian Pond Campground.  
    
    Fishing - a smallmouth bass fishery has been dveloped at Indian Pond,
    and along with trout and salmon, provide excellent fishing
    opportunities.  Guided bass fishing trip are available through local
    licensed guuides.  
    
    Canoe Rental - In cooperation with Univ. of Maine outing club, canoes
    are available for day use on Indian pond.
    
    Camp Store -  Ice, camping supplies, bug spray, firewood, tackle, bait,
    foods, other sundries (**that is what it says in the flyer**)
    
    House rental - a 3 bedroom, fully furnished house is located at Indian
    Pond for year round vacationing.  Available by the week ofr 4 season
    recreation: Hunting, Ice Fishing, snowmobiling, Boating.  It's the
    perfect getaway in Maine's western mountain wilderness with all the
    comforts of home. 
    
    Hiking/Biking - The applalachian trail at Moxie Pond ( just up the
    road) the Moxie Falls Trail (one of the highest falls in Maine with a
    drop of 90 feet - its gorgeous!)  and the Magic Falls trail.. ( you can
    hike in and watch the rafters go through Magic Falls..)
    provide excellent hiking and biking opportunities.
    
    Wildlife - Moose, white tailed deer, coyote, bear, fox, beaver, eagles,
    and other raptors
    
    Quebec - the Quebec province is 55 miles from Indian Pond Campground
    
    RATES -  
    
    Daily rate (based on two adults)	14.00
     each additional adult		 5.00
     children age 10 - 16 		 3.00
     children under age 10 	         free
     
    Group rate: 		        1.00 discount per person/per night
    
    PETS:  are welcome provided they are kept on a leash, cleaned up after,
    not left unattended, and they do not infringe on the peace and
    enjoyment of other campers.  
    
    All rates are subject to Maine's 7% lodging tax.
    
    Deposits:  1-3 nights, payment in full upon reservation
               4 or more days - 50% of total
    
    *******************************************
    
    House rental information:
    
    house #5 - 3 bedrooms, 2 singles beds in each room
    
    	       equipped with:
               electric stove and fridge
               oil fired forced hot air
               fire place in the living room (no fire wood provided)
               Pots + pans, dishes and silverware are provided
    
    CAMP RENTAL information:
    
    Sleeps 4 (single beds)
    
               equipped with:
               electric stove and refrigerator
               pots, pans, dishes and silverware are provided
    
    RATES:
    
    $50.00 per week night + 7% tax
    $75.00 per weekend night +7% tax
    $100.00 security deposit (security deposit returned upon house
    inspection)
    
    check out time is 12:00pm
    
    reservation deposit:
    
    50% deposit is due to hold your reservations. the balance of the amount
    due is required to be paid 15 days prior to the reservation date.
    
    Guests much bring:  linens or sleeping bags, kitchen and bath towels.
    
    
33.41Please send mail if you are camping...BOOKIE::KENYONTue Feb 11 1997 12:2017
    Hi,
    
    Is anyone intersted in renting the house?  I thought it might be a good
    idea to rent just incase it rains.  It doesn't appear that the
    campground has a recreation hall.  We raft rain or shine, so if we
    rented the house, we could have a dry place to hang out in.  Just a
    thought.
    
    Please let me know ASAP how many people are going to be camping and if
    there is any interest in renting the house.  Please send mail to
    
    --WHYNOW::KENYON--  
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
    
33.42There is still time to sign up for rafting...BOOKIE::KENYONTue Feb 11 1997 12:278
    Also,
    
    It isn't too late to sign up for rafting.  We have 10 people rafting so
    far.  
    
    Kathleen
    
    
33.43Campground all booked.. BOOKIE::KENYONFri Feb 14 1997 14:5326
    Hi,
    
    I have been playing phone tag with the campground.  I will try and
    reach them this afternoon.  **wait** the phone is ringing.. 
    
    I just got off the phone with the campground.  I have booked the 
    house and the camp and one site for Bob's popup.  
    
    The house has three bedrooms with 2 twin beds in each and we can put
    two more cots in the house if we need to.  The camp has two bedrooms
    with bunk beds... the bunk beds have a twin size mattress on the top
    with a double mattress on the bottom.  There is also a pull out sofa.
    
    We can have a bonfire on Saturday night behind the house.  There is a
    fire ring... 
    
    So we are now all set.. the rafting is booked and the campground is
    booked!
    
    I'll post a note when I get the invoice from the campground...
    
    Kathleen
    
    
    
    I have collected the deposits for the rafting.. 
33.44Way to go Kathleen!WRKSYS::BROWERFri Feb 14 1997 15:555
        Way to go Kathleen.. Better watch out we'll promote you to our
    travel agent ;-)
    
    
          bb
33.45Itinerary for rafting tripBOOKIE::KENYONThu Feb 20 1997 09:3945
    Hi,
    
    I figured I would post this now... 
    
    
    	YOUR DAY ON THE KENNEBEC RIVER
    
    Meeting place:	Crab Apple Acres Inn and Lodge
    
    Time:  		July 12th, 8:30AM
    
    Trip Itinerary:	Meet at 8:30am
                  	Life jacket fitting
    			Safety lecture and paddling instruction
    			20 minute ride to Harris Station
    			Raft 5 mile sin BIG Class III-V whitewater
    			Snack at Dead Stream Waterfalls
    			Continue 7 miles in Class II-IV white water
    			Take out in front of Crab Apple
    			Hot showers, hot tubs, change clothes
    			Steak cookout (Salmon, or vegetarian upon request)
    			Slide show and video presentation of your trip
    			Departure by approximately 3:30-4:30pm
    
    NOTE:  Those not rafting can come and have the cookout for an
    additional charge.. I'll look into it if anyone is interested..
    
    What to Bring:	Clothing - bathing suit or shorts, footwear (old
    			sneakers or Teva style sandals), towel, dry
    			clothes, and dry shoes, sunscreen, brimmed cap
    
    			Extra clothing if raining - Windbreaker, wool
    			sweater, wools socks, wool hat.  Synthetics such as 
    	 		capilene and polypropylene are also good on the
    			river.  DO NOT WEAR COTTON CLOTHING ON THE RIVER IF
    			IT IS COLD OR RAINING.
    
    	WETSUITS: 	Clean, comfortable wetsuits and wetsuit boots will
    			be available for rent.
    
        Store:          The lodge has a store where you can purchase 
    			t-shirts and sweatshirts, jackets, and other 
    			souvenier type stuff
    
                                   
33.46To Late ?WMOIS::ZELENT_JThu Feb 20 1997 12:154
    
    		Is it to late to get in on the rafting ?
    
    						Joe
33.47Pretty much everything I own is cotton.WAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerThu Feb 20 1997 13:309
>    			Extra clothing if raining - Windbreaker, wool
>    			sweater, wools socks, wool hat.  Synthetics such as 
>    	 		capilene and polypropylene are also good on the
>    			river.  DO NOT WEAR COTTON CLOTHING ON THE RIVER IF
>    			IT IS COLD OR RAINING.

	Of course some of us can't wear wool.

					--Doug
33.48Its not too late...BOOKIE::KENYONThu Feb 20 1997 14:534
    re:46  It isn't too late..  I'll get back to you with details.. off to
    a meeting...
    
    
33.49BOOKIE::KENYONFri Feb 21 1997 14:5116
    re: is it too late to join in? 
    
    Hi Joe,
    
    Nope, it isn't too late.  
    
    Send a $50 deposit to:
    
    Crab Apple Whitewater, Inc.
    HC 63 Box 25
    The Forks, ME  04985
    
    put the following information in the memo section 
    "Invoice #6273 - Kenyon party"
    
    
33.50Please notify me first.. thanksBOOKIE::KENYONFri Feb 21 1997 14:5414
    Hi,
    
    If anyone else would like to join, please call me before sending a
    check..
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
    We have 10 people rafting and so far I have only heard from cj in
    regards to camping without rafting.  If anyone else plans to come up
    for the weekend, but isn't rafting, please let me know asap so that I
    can change the campground reservations...
    
    
33.51Campground invoice...BOOKIE::KENYONif I had a spell of magic...Fri Feb 28 1997 13:4110
    Hi,
    
    I got the invoice from the campground.  The total for the campsite,
    house, and camp for two nights is $370.  How do we want to split it? 
    I think the best bet is to just take the total and divide it by the
    total number of people... 
    
    any suggestions? 
    
    
33.52CBROWN::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentFri Feb 28 1997 13:473
    That makes the most sense Kathleen.   I'm ok with that!
    
    					cj *->
33.53THUD::OCONNOR_JFri Feb 28 1997 14:234
    I second CJ.  That is the easiest and most convient way to do it.
    
    Joan
    
33.54DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Fri Feb 28 1997 14:426
Course, there's still some folks out there that we need to convince to come 
along with us!!!  ;-)

Splitting it even is fine with me.

B
33.55Think I'd prefer to pay for the campsite + a bit more??WRKSYS::BROWERFri Feb 28 1997 16:438
          Kathleen,
    
        Would it be possible for me to pay for the campsite in full? I'll have
    all 3 of my kids. Only 2 will attempt rafting. A split on the cost of
    the whole deal with 4 in the Brower clan is a bit much (~$148). I
    promise to cook Breakfast one morning :-) 
    
        bob 
33.55Dollars for the campground...WHYNOW::KENYONWed Mar 05 1997 13:5839
    
    Hi,
    
    Here is the information off the campground invoice:
    
    Rental fees - House (6 people - 8 if needed)    - $150.00
                  Camp  (4 people - 5 if needed)    - $150.00
                  Campsite (3 people)               - $ 40.00
    
    		  Tax (total)                       - $ 23.80
                                                    --------
                                                      $363.80
    
    so, here are the attendees:
    not rafting
    -----------
    Cindy Jacques (Angeline - free)
    Joyce Dewitt
    
    rafting
    -------
    Barb Asketh
    Mike Rogers
    Doug Gordon
    Joan O'Connor
    Joan's friend 
    Kathleen Kenyon
    
    The 8 of us would split the cost of the house and camp: $39.50 for the
    two nights of lodging, including tax
    
    Bob and his family would pay for the campsite - $46.00 (including tax)
    
    Kathleen
    
    
    
    
    
33.56make checks payable too....ORION::KENYONif I had a spell of magic...Thu Mar 06 1997 13:1312
    Hi,
    
    I haven't heard from anyone, so I'm assuming everyone agrees to the
    terms.. (-;
    
    Ok, then...  Please make checks payable to "Indian Pond Campground"
    and send them off ASAP...
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
    
33.57where to drop the checks...ORION::KENYONif I had a spell of magic...Thu Mar 06 1997 13:147
    that is, send them to me or drop them off in my office in either ZK or
    PK... my number in ZK is 381-6032 (Fridays) and in PK, 223-5239 (Mon -
    Thur)
    
    thanks,
    
     
33.58DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Thu Mar 06 1997 13:389
    
>    I haven't heard from anyone, so I'm assuming everyone agrees to the
>    terms.. (-;
    
Yup, sounds good to me. ;-)  And if other people decide to go between now and
then we can deal with it then.  ;-)  I'll be right up!

B

33.59maybe...(I seem to be full of maybe's)...fishing anyone?SSPADE::HILDEMon Mar 17 1997 17:4521
I'm not really that interested in the "near death" ;-) sustained adrenaline
rush of white water rafting (even when I was young I always prefered the
bumper cars over the roller coaster).  However, the socializing, the "fully"
accessible facilities, and the "excellent fishing opportunities"...do sound
quite appealing.  I even have a small fishing boat I could trailer up there.
Ahhhh...the calm serenity of the appreciation of nature while floating
peacefully along on the water...BROKEN by the occassional heart pounding
hook up with a feisty smallmouth!! (catch and release please)...now, that's
more my speed.  Anyone interested in fishing?

(I've been holding off on this...I'm waiting to hear about the schedule of
 some local (to me) bass fishing tournaments this year.  There is one that
 my local lake association puts on (usually in the middle of July) every year
 that benefits muscular dsytrophy victims.  Although I am not afflicted with
 MD, I did have an uncle who died of it, and I've shown up each of the last
 2 years as sort of a active fishing representative of the disabled community
 in general.  I feel sort of obligated to attend that this year as well...
 still don't know when it is though.)

Lon
33.60Hi, please send me your camping deposits...ORION::KENYONif I had a spell of magic...Fri Mar 21 1997 10:4413
    Hi,
    
    I paid the deposit for the campground (Barb, CJ, Joyce, and my
    portion)..
    
    I also received Bob's deposit in the mail... If you haven't paid me,
    please try and get the money to me by next Friday... 
    
    DTN: 223-5239 or DTN: 381-6032
    
    thanks...
    
    
33.61campground depositsBOOKIE::KENYONif I had a spell of magic...Wed Mar 26 1997 14:3711
    Hi,
    
    Please get the campground $$ to me asap.. thanks..
    
    Also, I will need to send the remainder of the rafting monies in by May
    18th... 
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen                                                          
    
    
33.62thanks...BOOKIE::KENYONif I had a spell of magic...Wed Apr 02 1997 11:437
    Thanks to everyone for getting their money to me promptly.. this is one
    of the easiest trips I've ever organized.. (-;
    
    A reminder:  the rest of the rafting money has to be to me by May
    18th..
    
    thanks,
33.63other 1/2 of rafting deposit - May 18BOOKIE::KENYONwhat about awe and wonder?Mon Apr 28 1997 16:4915
    
    Hi,
    
    I will need the final deposits for the rafting part of the trip by May
    18th.
    
    Bob Brower - plus two (-;
    Mike Rogers
    Barb Asketh
    Doug Gordon
    Joan O'connor
    Joan's friend
    me
    
    thanks,
33.64reminder - final payments by May 18BOOKIE::KENYONFri May 09 1997 16:4115
    Hi,
    
    I have received the following deposits:
    
    Bob - pd.
    Doug - pd.
    Barb - pd.
    
    Mike and Joan, could you get me the checks by next Wednesday.  Joan, I
    can meet you in Stow and pick it up...
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
    
33.65HITOPS::OCONNOR_JMon May 12 1997 09:536
    Kathleen,
    
    I am suppose to be in ZKO on Wednesday afternoon, does that work for
    you?  If not let me know when we can connect in Stow or Maynard.
    
    Joan
33.66works fine!BOOKIE::KENYONMon May 12 1997 10:047
    
    Hi,
    
    I'll be in ZK on Wednesday...  my DTN: is 381-6032.. give me a call and
    I'll meet you...
    
    
33.67ORION::KENYONTue May 20 1997 12:0430
    
    Hi,

    An update:
    
    Here is the breakdown of who is going.. Joyce  (  )-;  ) can't make it but
    Steff ( (-; ) is going to come along...

    house and cottage:
    -----------------
	Doug G. (r)
	Mike Rogers (r)
	Barb (r)
	Kathleen (r)
	Joan (r)
	Joan's friend (r)
	CJ
	Brian

	campsite:
	---------
	Bob (r)
	Jocelyn 
	Elora (r)
	Michael (r)
        Steff  

    


33.68Rafting Planning dinner - June 12 or 13thBOOKIE::KENYONWed May 28 1997 12:0329
    
    Hi,
    
    I would like to get together around June 12th or 13th, an afterwork
    type thing, to discuss who is staying where, what we will be bringing,
    who is driving up with whom... All that jazz....  I thought Littleton
    would be a centrally located type area to meet...
    
    The list:
    
    Rafting:
    
    Doug Gordon
    Mike Rogers
    Barb Asketh
    Joan O'Connor
    Dee (Joan's friend)
    Bob Brower
    Michael Brower
    Elora Brower
    me
    
    Non-rafting:
    
    CJ
    Brian
    Steph 
    Jossy
    
33.69DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Wed May 28 1997 17:103
The 13th (Friday) is better for me...

B
33.70DANGER::ASKETHBeware of Greeks bearing gifts...Thu May 29 1997 09:044
I take that back...the 12th is better for me - just made weekend plans for that
weekend so will be on the road to Vermont on the 13th.  ;-)

B
33.7112th is ok with meWRKSYS::BROWERPokey SmurfThu May 29 1997 09:093
         The 12th also looks better for me..
    
    bob
33.72DECXPS::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentThu May 29 1997 09:114
    I can make the 12th.   Will have Angeline with me though.
    Seems she's becoming one of the crowd, anyways.  :-)
    
    					cj *->
33.73DECXPS::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentThu May 29 1997 09:125
    Ooh Ooh!  Can I make a suggestion on location?   Oh, would
    Nashua be tough for some of you?   
    
    I just love that Lui Lui!   :-)
    						cj *->
33.74where the heck is Nashua? :-)WRKSYS::BROWERPokey SmurfThu May 29 1997 09:183
         Nashua where's Nashua??
    
    bb
33.75DECXPS::JACQUES_CACrazy ways are evidentThu May 29 1997 09:445
    Ok  (wiseguy... you were just there you know! :-)  )....
    I got a bit carried away.   I have the hungry horrors
    this morning and that restaurant just popped into my
    head.  :-)
    					cj *->
33.76uesTHUD::OCONNOR_JFri May 30 1997 12:106
    As it stands now the 12th will be ok with me.  I also second CJ's
    suggestions for Lui Lui.  My nieces and nephew turned me on to the
    one in West Lebanon, NH.
    
    			Joan
    
33.77the 12th it is...BOOKIE::KENYONMon Jun 02 1997 16:505
    ok.. it looks like the 12th is better for most people...
    
    Is there a more centrally located town other than Littleton?