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Conference amcucs::ms-sqlsvr

Title:	Microsoft SQL Server Support
Notice:	Please Registar, Note #11
Moderator:	AMCUCS::BETTS

Created:	Tue Aug 23 1994
Last Modified:	Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	382
Total number of notes:	1233

359.0. "sql alpha vs pentium" by NCMAIL::LEFFLERM () Thu Apr 10 1997 07:02

    I'm looking for some suggestions before I go out to a (somewhat irate)
    customer...
    
    The customer is running a fairly straightforward set of SQL apps on
    both a pentium workstation 133 and a 2CPU 2100 (4/275, hsz40, 4 rz28's
    mirrored). The caching policy is set to write-back, and they do have 
    a battery backup. Both machines are running NT4.0 & SQL 6.5.
    
    The alpha is only 10% faster than the pentium under benchmark testing
    of 100, 1000, 10000, & 100000 transactions, which consist primarily of
    table inserts. Both machines scale linearly. CPU usage on both machines
    is at about 50%, so I'm not sure that a 5/xxx CPU will make any
    significant difference.
    
    There are two obvious differences in the configs. No RAID on the 
    workstation, and no SP2 on the 2100. I have asked the customer to try a
    test with the data off of the HSZ40, just to see what effect it will
    have. I have also asked the customer to apply the service pack. 
    
    As a side note, both machines are at sp1 of SQL 6.5, I have suggested
    that they try sp2.
    
    The big issue is that the alpha was a $90K machine (after discount) and
    the pentium is a 10K box, with only a 10% difference in performance.
    Needless to say the customer is displeased.
    
    Any suggestions welcome.
    
    Thanks,
    Mark
                                        
    
    (cross-posted in NT-WIZARDS)

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
359.1	Possibly expand the discussion?	GUIDUK::HEALY	Alan Healy @ZSO	`Thu Apr 10 1997 11:38`	40
	I have a few observations to make... 1. This is apparently an I/O limited application. Why would it run any faster on the Alpha? The bits come off the disk at the same speed. I assume it is a single-user benchmark. 2. The 4/275 is obsolete technology (even more so than the P-133). EV4 Alphas are, I think, fairly equivalent to Pentiums in real performance (not Specints). 3. The price comparison is bogus. How can you directly compare something that was built to be a reliable server with a lowend workstation (which probably doesn't even have parity memory)? That being said, I understand it is difficult to justify Alpha for SQL Server even though that should be a good application for Alpha. This bechmark the customer is using seems to be a very limited evaluation. If you make the comparison on this one dimension, I have found it extremely difficult to justify Alpha. Some additional differentiators could be: 1. More reliability in the Alpha (dual power supplies, ECC memory, Storageworks hot-swap disks, etc.) 2. More expandability (up to 4 cpus, 2 GB Memory, disk) 3. Upgradability (e.g., 375Mhz cpus vs. a forklift upgrade for the Pentium). I realize this is not what you (and the customer) asked for, but I find that customers sometimes try to get us exercised in their linear directions and it sometimes helps to expand the discussion. In any case I don't believe you are going to be able to get screaming SQL performance out of the 275Mhz 2100. You have my sympathy. I have faced this question a number of times. Al
359.2		PCBUOA::KRATZ		`Thu Apr 10 1997 14:47`	15
	Old DIGITAL under Copperman We don't care what machine is best for the customer, we don't care what the customer wants, we just claim Alpha is much faster and cram it down their throats. New DIGITAL under Claflin We sell the best solution for the customer (which, in this case, should probably have not been Alpha-based). This is a fundamental change in the way DIGITAL does business. Unfortunately, the benchmark groups and sales training also have to let go of their Alpha agenda so that the salesforce understands the right solution. The bid-Alpha-and-hand-the-business-to-COMPAQ days should be over under Claflin. .02 Kratz
359.3	Intel at Benchmark Centers	LABC::CARLSON		`Tue Apr 15 1997 14:31`	14
	RE: .2 >> Unfortunately, the benchmark groups and sales training also have >> to let go of their Alpha agenda so that the salesforce understands >> the right solution. The bid-Alpha-and-hand-the-business-to-COMPAQ >> days should be over under Claflin. I couldn't agree more. Each of the Benchmark Centers now have the newest high end Intel boxes along with the Alpha's. The quad pentium pros are on order. Check out the Centers at mammth.ivo.dec.com/bench.html Tim
359.4	sometimes the customer does'nt want the right thing	ARRCEE::tunsrv2-tunnel.imc.das.dec.com::catena	Rich Catena	`Wed Apr 23 1997 08:02`	13
	I hope I don't start a religious war here but I feel the need to inject some field based reality into the discussion. I have been involved in several potential sales into Compaq based accounts. They have flatly told us "We don't need Digital for an Intel solution". This is evidenced many times over where we are not on the approved list for Intel based servers. Alpha in these accounts is beating the door open to get our Digital foot in. Great Intel based servers are good to have, keep building them. Great Alpha servers are nice too, vlm db's hopefully will open up the high end.
359.5	reformatted so we can read it	MPOS01::CERLING	[email protected]	`Mon Apr 28 1997 08:09`	21
	<<< AMCUCS::AXPBIZ$DKA100:[NOTES$LIBRARY_ALTERNATE]MS-SQLSVR.NOTE;1 >>> -< Microsoft SQL Server Support >- ================================================================================ Note 359.4 sql alpha vs pentium 4 of 4 ARRCEE::tunsrv2-tunnel.imc.das.dec.com::catena "Ric" 13 lines 23-APR-1997 07:02 -< sometimes the customer does'nt want the right thing >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope I don't start a religious war here but I feel the need to inject some field based reality into the discussion. I have been involved in several potential sales into Compaq based accounts. They have flatly told us "We don't need Digital for an Intel solution". This is evidenced many times over where we are not on the approved list for Intel based servers. Alpha in these accounts is beating the door open to get our Digital foot in. Great Intel based servers are good to have, keep building them. Great Alpha servers are nice too, vlm db's hopefully will open up the high end.