Conference decwet::networker

We have just gotten our first AIT drive in, and are starting the 
process of studying it and testing it.  We'd rather disappoint a customer
by not supporting a drive than to disappoint them by losing data!

There are also issues in obtaining OS support for the drive.  I'll try to
check on the status of that.

Kevin

	If you have input on the value of the Sony AIT products please
	forward it to the tape product manager.  I'm not sure who
	has that role at this time.  The best customer support is
	available for products sold by Storage (SEP).  If
	Storage is not supporting a device then CSS is also an option.

	We (NetWorker) can not provide the sort of testing and lab 
	equipment to properly qualify tape drives with all our O/S and 
	Platform combinations.  We do check tape drives out and setup 
	NetWorker to take advantage of them. 

	If there is demand we may be able to provide a compatability 
	statement.  This would not cliam support from DIGITAL, just
	that we have checked out the device and it is compatable with	
	our software product.  Support would have to be provided by
	the vendor or manufacturer.  The one company that I know of that
	can currently provide such support is SpectraLogic.

	Note:  While the AIT drives look good in many ways, they do not
	have the proven record of DLT.  We need to be careful considering
	the past record of other 8mm devices.  Time will tell. 

re:      <<< Note 635.2 by DECWET::RWALKER "Roger Walker - Media Changers" >>>

	We (NetWorker) can not provide the sort of testing and lab 
	equipment to properly qualify tape drives with all our O/S and 
	Platform combinations.  We do check tape drives out and setup 
	NetWorker to take advantage of them. 

    Does this mean that the OS may support a tape but Networker
    does not for some reason? Does Legato get into the act as well?    
    
	If there is demand we may be able to provide a compatability 
	statement.  This would not cliam support from DIGITAL, just
	that we have checked out the device and it is compatable with	
	our software product.  Support would have to be provided by
	the vendor or manufacturer.  The one company that I know of that
	can currently provide such support is SpectraLogic.

    I don't quite understand what 'support' would be in this
    context... I can imagine a vendor supprorting his tape drive
    on our hw and o.s. platform, but I can't quite picture them
    'supporting' it as far as Networker is concerned.  Certainly
    we must have some kind of 'arrangement' for 'supporting'
    non-digital drives, yes?
    
	Note:  While the AIT drives look good in many ways, they do not
	have the proven record of DLT.  We need to be careful considering
	the past record of other 8mm devices.  Time will tell. 

    "look good in many ways" -  I don't have a copy of the specs, but
    what I recall was something like 8mb/sec;  $4500 for a drive; 65
    Gbyte per tape... minimal rackmount space reqd/drive very
    attractive numbers for big data base systems... backing up a few
    hundred Gig in well under an hour to a few of these things is
    definitely a very very attractive possibility - and very
    affordable.
    
    please feel free to correct those numbers if you have them.
    
    
    I don't know anything about Sony's track record with digital
    tapes, but would be glad to be educated about the risks of
    hopping on their bandwagon.
    
    d

    Support for tape problems such as "my system hung with with tape
    process non-interuptable" needs somebody to isolate the cause. 
    These problems are not in the application but may only show
    with it.  Currently we need help from both UEG and SEP/CSS to
    get the problems resolved.  This is where we would have to defer
    to the vendor if we do not have an internal group that can help.
    This is just the same as any other non-DIGITAL hardware. We could
    only accept an IPMT if the problem was with DIGITAL's part of the 
    package.  How to determin if it is DIGITAL's problem is tough.
    If the customer doesn't want to risk this, buy all DIGITAL, if they
    can handle it, buy what they want.
                                                            
    Yes the AIT drives backed up a lot of data, all 33 of them in that
    test.  The AIT are rated 3Mb/sec, 25GB per tape, uncompressed.
    I get 2.7Mb/sec actual testing with random data in a pure write
    program.  They do scale well with compressable data.
    This is compared to 5Mb/sec, 35GB per tape uncompressed for
    DLT7000 (TZ89).
    
    As I mentioned in the previous reply, DLT is a proven medium.  Ask
    any of your customers that have used 8mm drives if they would
    like to try to keep 33 working at one time under heavy use.  
    These new drives may not have the same issues as the previous 8mm
    drives but I would like to have more information before
    I would recomend a large investment since this is for critical data.
    If the AIT drives prove out, they could be a very good option.  

re: .4
    
    Support of 3rd party stuff is always a bit messy in our world...
    I thought we were moving toward being more 'open' like some
    of our worthy competitors and making it easier for customers
    to make purchase decisions confident that their platform vendor
    and major peripheral vendors had at least a gentlemen's agreement
    on some kind of support after some kind of qualification process.
    Isn't that sort of the goal?
                                                                
.    Yes the AIT drives backed up a lot of data, all 33 of them in that
.    test.  The AIT are rated 3Mb/sec, 25GB per tape, uncompressed.
.    I get 2.7Mb/sec actual testing with random data in a pure write
.    program.  They do scale well with compressable data.
.    This is compared to 5Mb/sec, 35GB per tape uncompressed for
.    DLT7000 (TZ89).

    I don't know which test you're referring to... I'm also a bit
    surprised at the numbers you've got. With those numbers I do't
    see any revolutionary threat. I will ask to see something
    in writing next time I'm at the site - they might simply be
    seeing the results of compression when backing up a basically
    empty database.  THe price of the units is cheap enough, however,
    that the prospect of having 2 X as many drives to match the
    total throughput is not at all daunting to most customers.
        
.    As I mentioned in the previous reply, DLT is a proven medium.  Ask
.    any of your customers that have used 8mm drives if they would
.    like to try to keep 33 working at one time under heavy use.  
.    These new drives may not have the same issues as the previous 8mm
.    drives but I would like to have more information before
.    I would recomend a large investment since this is for critical data.
.    If the AIT drives prove out, they could be a very good option.  

    The customers with whom I have dealt generally hate DLT... the
    tapes and the drive systems are perceived as way overpriced,
    unreliable, niche, "proprietary" technology. I don't entirely
    share that perception but I have never learned to overcame my
    hatred of the TK50 from whence the rest of these things descended.
    
    A tape from SONY is perceived as high tech, highly cool, likely
    to become a standard in the industry - meaning faster drops
    in price, increases in capability. 
    
    If the real specs are those you cite, as I said, the threat
    is minimal. If they are close to what I thought I recalled
    from the customer I spoke with, then we could find ourselves
    with an awful lot of DLT tapes in inventory very soon if we
    just stand and watch.
    
    Just my opinion, of course.
    
    d

	Please remember that all 8mm drives prior to the Exabyte Mammoth
	were built by Sony.  This includes the 'famous' 8200 and
	8500 drives.  I would expect that there will be a market for
	both since they both claim to have better next generations
	coming 'soon' where I expect 'soon' to be between  12 and 36 
	months.

	As to support, gentlemen's agreements are iffy when a high
	priority IPMT is open for a major customer.  We need an
	up front understanding between all three parties before that
	happens.  DIGITAL is not used to selling that solution so
	any advice from the field as to how we can safely enter this
	relem of mixed vendors would be useful.   We are open in
	that we make it possible in the software to use a much equipment
	as possible.  We are not so open that we accept the responsability
	for all hardware problems when we did not sell the hardware.