Conference diver1::boston_bruins

    ....Our feelings on the trade?  I'd personally rather see the B's
    rebuild (since they are dead frigin' last in the Division) , BUT
    since all they got for Oatsie, Tocchet, and Ranford is Jim Carey
    (don't know about the other two guys yet, seems betwix the two of
    them all they have is ~ 10 games NHL experience), it certainly does
    appear that the B's got "fleeced", as you say....BUT consider this:
    
    IMHO, Jim Carey has all the tools to become one of the GREAT goalers
    in the NHL...heck, he's already won the Vezina, and didn't he also
    get the Rookie award two years ago??  In my personal opinion, he's
    gonna only get better...and he's only 23.....how many more years
    does Ranford have?  3, maybe 4??  
    
    Don't get me wrong, Harry still is a PINHEAD, but it's crash & burn
    time, and I'm glad it's starting B-4 the season ends....all we need
    now is Thornton, and a few more young-uns, and they will B an exciting
    club to watch, unlike this year's (although the comeback against
    Philly was very exciting).....
    
    I don't think Pinhead is done, either....although he'll probably have
    to pick someone up, rather than trade (we got no on else to trade,
    right???)....this one still has to sink in, but again, I'd rather
    see young-uns if we're gonna rebuild, than guys like Tocchet, on n
    the B's.....BEST OF LUCK, OATSIE!!!  We luved ya!!!
    
    
    Ranford must B pissed-off fer sure...just bought a house, just put
    one of his kids in a local school....oh well, that's life in da NHL...
    
    this one still has to sink in....
    
    mac

    I wonder what Ray Bourque thinks of this trade...
    
    Ray.
    

    Jason Allison is a power forward w/ a great touch around the net.
    That was while he was in Jr. 
    Anson Carter was in the AHL All-Star game; big forward, like Allison,
    played for Team Canada Jr 3-4 years ago.
    Jim Carey, won the Vezina and was runner to Rookie of the Year.
    None of these 3 are over 23.
    
    Personally, he should've went for Brendan Witt instead of Carter.
    
    Saw Sinden in an interview; said $$$ was not a factor. That he even
    tried to get Bondra. Question is; Do you think even Sinden believes
    his lies???? ;*)
    
    Andy

    ....Ray, Cap'n Raymond was interviewed after the trade by several local
    sports-dudes....he was making light of the fact that he was the "old
    man" on the team now, also that he is and always will be a "Boston
    Bruins" (that definition is getting tuff to define as of late...)
    
    ....and I *know* I'm gonna get skewered by the guys in here, 'cuz it
    may *appear* I'm supporting Pinhead/Sinden on this one, but we gotta
    start rebuilding NOW, not in the Summertime....hope Adam is happy
    with the Caps, Tocchet can go fry eggs as far as I'm concerned, and
    Billy-Boy probably wished he NEVER heard of the City of Boston ....
    but they gots ta take several chances now, not later, NOW, if they
    have any chance of becoming a contender in the years to come...
    
    
    IMHO, of course....
    
    
    mac

    
    Hello,
    
    	Rick Tocchett was gone after this season anyways, teams knew this
    and weren't willing to trade anything for him. Ranford and Carey are a
    wash, with the edge going to Boston. So the trade is essentially Adam
    Oates for Jason Allison and Anson Carter + 3rd round pick. If Rick
    Tocchett re-signs with Washington the B's also get a 2nd round pick.
    They probably could have done better for Oates, but not much better
    do to his age.
    	Look for the B's to tank some games, to get the #1 pick in the
    draft. Harry should arrange a trade of Ray Bourque, with Ray having the
    final say. Ray Bourque will not ask for a trade and be loyal to the
    team. So Harry has to encourage him to accept a trade. Its the only
    way he will get a ring.
    
    Ron
       

    
    Sinden got screwed. bottom line he coulda got alot more. 
    
    Let's break this trade down 
    
    Ranford and Tocchet for Jim Carey & a 3rd round pick (IF Tocchet signs
    with the Caps next year).  Ok I'd do this I guess, it free's up alot of 
    $$ to sign some new kids and we get a great young goalie. 
    
    Oates for Allison and Carter. LAME deal. I think Oates 100pts a season 
    is worth far more than the combined total of these 2 kids (35pts) 
    2 of Carters goals just came against Boston a few weeks ago.. 
    
    I think Sinden did this deal because it was easier for him to do 1 deal 
    instead of 2. He shoulda shopped OAtes to a different team and I'm sure 
    could've got more for Oates from another team close to contending. 
    
    IMO Harry gets beat again on the ice. He save 6million for Jacobs and we
    fans get less overall talent on the ice infront of us at $65 a seat. 
    
    
     Rp 
      
      

    ...Ron, methinks the B's get that 3rd rounder next year w/ out the
    Tocchet consideration....IF Tocchet signs w/ the Caps, we also get
    their 2nd rounder in the season after that (98-99?)....
    
    is this kerrect?  I *think* it is.....
    
    now, I gotta get some work done B-4 da Boss has my head....
    
    mac

    	Here's my take on it. 
    
    1. After the Ranford-Bruins arbitration case we all kinda thought that
    it was a foregone conclusion that Ranford would be leaving the B's at
    the end of this season anyway. Then Harry goes and signs him to a three
    year deal. Did anybody really think that this was because Harry wanted
    Ranford to finish his career with the B's? I didn't, I just figured
    that he was inking him to a deal to make him more tradable. Ranford
    also spoke out about how disappointed he was to be traded to the B's
    when he came here. The speaking out against the B's and taking them to
    arbitration doesn't lead to longevity in Beantown. Carrey has a better
    GAA (but had a better team in front of him) and has a slightly better
    save pct. Take into consideration the fact that Carrey is seven years
    younger, is going to come home and play for his hometown team and Harry
    might've come out on the better end of this part of the deal. 
    
    2. Adam Oates spoke out against team management. We all knew he'd be
    gone. I don't know anything about either of these guys so I'm going to
    have to go by what Andy Watters said about them. They're young, Oates is
    34. Short term, the Caps probably came out the winners, where will
    Oates be in 4-5 years? Looking at retirement. Both of these guys could
    be hitting their peak at that time.
    
    3. Tocchet and Steve Kasper seemed to be diametrically opposed in their 
    approaches to the game. He and Kasper have been butting heads all year.
    I think that we all kind of knew that he'd be leaving the team at the
    end of the year anyway didn't we?
    
    	Put all these factors together and we traded Ranford for Carrey, and
    we got these two young guys for Oates and Tocchet was a wash. I think
    that if Harry has ANY plans of filling seats at the Fleet Center next
    year he'd better do well in the draft (ie. not do the Kluzak vs.
    Bellows thing again) and he'd better spend a little money in the free
    agent market this summer. Otherwise I think that the best approach for
    B's fans next year will be to use the old trick of buying the cheap
    seats and move down into the empty expensive seats as the first period 
    approaches the end. ;-)
    
    Barry
    

my feelings on the trade...

Basically I think Harry and Mike O. used too much emotion
here, and didn't play this incident with Adam Oates
with much professionalism at all.  I don't like the
trade based on their (mgmt) philosophy, but I suppose
they felt that they had to settle things down, can't
have the players mouthing off I guess, but why the
hell not !?  especially when it's true...

I don't like the fact that the B's let Oates go, and got
virtually nothing in return.   Sure, Harry traded away some
finess and got youth, Allison maybe the player in this
deal, but my guess is (knowing how the B's use or don't
use their talent) both these guys will spend a lot of
time in the AHL.. (just a guess,,)   I hope Oates
has a great run with the Caps, and I hope he sticks
it up Sinden and OConnels keester every time the B's
play the Caps.  Granted for the short term, the B's
lost a leader, and a lot of talent when the let Oates
go..

Tochette is a good player, but never got it going with
the team, (probably cuz Kasper is so Anal..)

So now we look at Carey for Ranford,, 
Carey has the tools, but needs to be played, perhaps it's 
a good thing cuz Ranford did not play very consistantly 
here in Boston, but when he was hot, he *STOLE* games for 
the Bruins..

But I would agree 100% with the rest of yous guys, the
B's need good young talent, and they need to start
asap.  Not sure I agree with trading Bourque although
Bourque, above all the rest of the good players in the
league with out a championship,  deserves one championship
ring before haning up the skates.

The final move Sinden NEEDS to make, (after all is said and
done this year) is to find a frigging coach for this team.

Not a snowballs chance in hell of making the playoffs so
these remaining games are entertainment value only.  
Interestingto see how the team responds to this trade.

/pelskter

I think it's a tough trade to judge right now.  Oates has a couple years left,
same with Tochette.  Ranford is getting up there in age too.  All three hated 
Boston... Boston management that is.   Not a good scenario.  

If Carter and Allison don't pan out then the Caps got the best for sure.
In this case, the B's at least will likely have a super goalie for years
to come.

If either Carter or Allison do pan out, aka Pederson/Neely, and if Carey plays 
like he can consistently, then the B's win for the long term.

Interesting tidbit on the news with Sinden adamantly denying once again
that Jacobs has him on a budget, calling Jacobs the most hands-off owner 
in hockey, and that he can spend whatever he wants.  I hope he uses some
of the $avings for a premier free agent, and don't see that he has any 
choice.

/Ken

    Heard this morning that Oates will not report to the Caps until
    his contract is renegotiated... hah!   

    /Ken

    Bawstan is hell for a goaltender as Jim Carey is about to find out.
    Don't know if there's something in the water but seems anytime the 
    Ruins get a keeper he will have flashes of brilliance before the big
    crash and burn. Let's see how long Carey lasts before he succumbs to
    flying rubber (which is something he's going to get to see a lot of).
    
    Ruins gave up too much in this deal though reports say they come out
    some $3M to the good (ya, and money wasn't a factor here was it
    Harry?) but they gave away too much for too little. Bawstan cannot
    rebuild until their present management and owners leave town for good.
    
    Will Carey be between the pipes tonight or is he going to take the
    pipe? Tune in hockey fans.
    
    Jerry

easy for Jerry to talk about 'takin the pipe, as Hartford
took it big time against Philly...  anyways, with the extra
3 mill. maybe harry will go coach shopping....

     Read this last night about the trade. Bruins were the 4th oldest team
    in the league. They are now the third youngest.
    
    
     Harry's real objectives.  1. Make Money
                               2. Play at least 500. keeps fans in seats to
                                  buy Beer/hotdogs
                               3. Make Money
                               4. Keep payroll low and players quiet
                               5. Make Money
                               6. Hire any Bozo to coach these guys since 
                                  winning a cup is not part of the plan.
                                  He also must come cheap!
                               7. Make Money
                               8. Keep Scotch cabinet full!!!!
                               9. Make Money
                              10. Make the playoffs = Make Money

they're *still* at least 5 maybe more, players
away from being in any point of contention...

Youth is fine, but ya need some depth (aint got
it) some talent, (a bit, not much) and fer cripes sakes,
can someone get a goal scorer in Boston!

    Like Ron said: "Moger&Donato are the most talented forwards now".
    
    That's a far cry from the Big Bad Bruins of the entire 70's. ;*)
    
    Andy

	Bonjour Andre !

	Spent last week in St. Donat, PQ and caught Victoriaville vrs. Hull
	on Friday night.  Lot's of cheap hits back and forth between both
	teams especially targeting the black player on the Hull team (didn't
	catch his name) ...
	
	Check the notes Buddy, who was the first one to predict Oatsie was 
	trade bait.  

	Chuck

    i hope no one takes offense to this but i say good for the caps. I gave
    up on the bruins a long time ago, thats when i started to watch real
    teams. the washington capitols are one of those real teams and of
    course the penguins and the flyers. 

    Harry probably did the best he could on this trade, but he got hosed
    and it's his own damn fault. I'm sure he was on the defensive of
    all these negotiations, and if he had moved on this a few months 
    ago, before Ranford/Tocchet got hurt, and Adam started whining, 
    he would have done MUCH better, IMHO.  Then he could have bargained
    from strength instead of getting revenge on Adam. Someone said
    Harry said he could spend more money if he wanted to? Then
    what's his excuse?  
    
    Basically, if the goalies are about equal, he traded Adam and Rick 
    for two unproven rookies. Well, I hope it works out, but we 
    already HAD a great goalie. Now we have a great goalie but
    minus the team's leading scorer.  And oh by the way, Carey
    isn't going to stick around over the years unless he gets paid.
    
    If I was Ray, I'd be out of here. What difference does it make now
    if he plays 18 years without a Cup, or 20 without one? 
    Find a team with a shot at it in the near future.
    Bobby and Espo went to different teams and noone holds it against
    them.
    
    -Barry
    
    

    
    I say Sinden should go after Mike Keenan but then again he doesn't want
    a coach that will stand up to him.  If he dumps the ghost he's only
    going to put O'Connell in his place and IMHO the B's will be no better
    off.
    
    As for the trade I'm willing to give these two guys a chance, since I
    really don't have a choice anyways!, but I have always been a big
    Ranford fan.  I was heart broken when they traded him to Edmonton and
    very excited when they picked him up last year.  I hope that Carey will
    be the goaler that he was towards the end of his rookie year.  Could
    have been a great trade.  We'll just have to wait.  
    
    Until then GO AVALANCHE!!! 
    
    Tim

    Jim Carey is NO Bill Ranford. No where near. Actually, Carey's had
    a rough year so far; inconsistent.
    
    B's were robbed. Then again, Wash may live to regret the trade if
    Oates is asking for $4M or so. :*)
    
    Andy

    I'll agree with the last note, Carey is not Ranford, who I consider one
    of the top 5 in the league. The B's could have got more, alot more. The
    Sens were shocked by the trade as it makes the Eastern conference
    playoff drive harder now for teams battling the Caps. I think Ron
    Tugnutt said this " 3 all-stars for one-time all-star, I think
    somebody owes Harry Sidden a favour"
    
    
    Sean
    

    YOU GUYS MUST NOT HAVE WATCHED THE BRUINS THAT MUCH. RANFORD STUNK THE
    HOUSE OUT IN THE NET. THEN WHEN HE WASN'T PLAYING HE NEEDED SOME CRY
    BABY SOUP! GRANTED HE DID NOT HAVE MUCH SUPPORT, BUT NIETHER DOES BURKE
    FROM HARTFORD AND HE STILL PLAYS MUCH BETTER AND DOES NOT CRY POOR ME.

    ...first of all, NO SHOUTING...OK, pal????
    
    Second, where the hell did all youz guyz come from? JEEESHH!!!
    Man, I guess it's good that you dudes are a-readin' this file (again),
    but man, I haven't seen your names on posts in here fer a while...
    mostly in the "Hockey" file....well, welcome back!
    
    And putting the Caps in the same sentence with the Pens is nothing
    short of heresy....come on, what have the Caps EVER won?? In fact,
    they're at the bottom on the League in offense, if mac ain't
    mistaken...although the Pens are hurtin' right now, and just fired
    ol' Eddy J....think he's come back to Boston??
    
    ya, right.....he hates Harry more than WE do.....
    
    time will tell about this trade....Carey looked *real* jittery
    last night......
    
    mac

    Half of the games won by the Bruins this year were the direct result of
    performances by Ranford.  He carried them to the playoffs last year.  The 
    Bruins were out of the playoffs last year until Ranford was picked up. 
    In my books his one of the top five in the league.  He has performed
    well and has done so CONSISTENTLY for years.
    
    Carey has played poorly this year and he played poorly in the playoffs
    last year.  Is he another Blaine Lacher?  Is he a flash in the pan?
    Time will tell.
    
    Bernie.

<YOU GUYS MUST NOT HAVE WATCHED THE BRUINS THAT MUCH. RANFORD STUNK THE
<HOUSE OUT IN THE NET. THEN WHEN HE WASN'T PLAYING HE NEEDED SOME CRY
<BABY SOUP! GRANTED HE DID NOT HAVE MUCH SUPPORT, BUT NIETHER DOES BURKE
<FROM HARTFORD AND HE STILL PLAYS MUCH BETTER AND DOES NOT CRY POOR ME.

o.k. if we're gonna READ your notes, you gotta get the caps
lock key off...  ok. ???  thanks!

now to respond to what I think I read from you..

difference between your statement, and truth is that
we actaully watched some of these games o.k....
and we watched Ranford save the B's bacon many times
this season..  and yes, he didn't get a lot of support.

And I don't know if Burke cries poor me or not,, I don't
follow the Whalers.... maybe you do....  (Guys I think
we got another Hartford fan breakin into the conference..)

Now we don't mind input from outsiders, but get your
facts straight...  however,,, if your just comin in here 
to kick up dust, we got Jerry Johnson (Another HARTFORD 
faithfull, perhaps you know him) does that on a regular 
basis..  redunancy is a bad thing, try another conference, 
or use the ALT.NEWS groups,,, they seem to feed on inane 
drivel..

luvs-n-kissies...

/pelksta...

    
    
    >>>>>YOU GUYS MUST NOT HAVE WATCHED THE BRUINS THAT MUCH. RANFORD STUNK
    >>>>>HOUSE OUT IN THE NET. THEN WHEN HE WASN'T PLAYING HE NEEDED SOME
    >>>>>BABY SOUP! GRANTED HE DID NOT HAVE MUCH SUPPORT, BUT NIETHER DOES
    >>>>>FROM HARTFORD AND HE STILL PLAYS MUCH BETTER AND DOES NOT CRY POOR
    
    
    
    I'm a little confused here?  I haven't watched every game this year
    by any stretch of the imagination but this has to be one of the most
    assinine, ill-concieved "thoughts" I've ever had the dis-pleasure of
    reading.  For anyone to say or think that Ranford did not save this
    team on countless occasions this season is pure fiction.  Granted,
    like any goalie, he's had sub-par games but those are few and far
    between.  Personally, I don't think Ranford handled the whole
    arbitration fiasco as well as he could have but he's certainly not
    crying "poor me", as you so eloquently put it.
    
    Finally, a suggestion:  In Massachusetts, the Bruins are on TV 38
    and also on NESN......I don't know what numbers they are on your cable
    dial, but tune into a game before you go off making ridiculous comments
    like this one.
    
    
    		CF

    First of all the caps are off and second off all I'm a big bruins fan!
    If we want to go to where this started we will go to the trade with
    MOOG! Should of never got rid of him! Also Carey has a 2.80 goals
    against average and Ranford is over 3.00. So all you so called fans
    better wake up and smell the coffeeeeeee. Then you can see we should
    get rid of casper and the management. Jim Abbot could've played better
    than Ranford this year. He a baseball player in case you did not know
    that. I guess I'm an Abbot fan now!!!!! Sorry for using other teams as
    an example I thought you great Boston fans had some knowledge of other
    sports!!!!!!
    HUGS 
     & 
    KISSES
    SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITAL LETTERS! CRY BABY SOUP FOR YOU!

Numbers and goals against averages aren't the definitive
measure...

Ranford's numbers haven't been that good for a while now,
but chirst look at the shots the B's have given up this
year,  had the Bruins had one of their average seasons 
defensively, Ranford would have been an EASY 2.90/2.95

    about the comment about the caps and pens. first of all i wasn't saying
    that the caps and pens are the best teams on earth or anything like
    that. the point i was making was that compared to the bruins they are.
    i guese i am a little biased in that i am a big lemieux fan and as far
    as the caps go i have a cousin that plays for the caps and i am happy
    that oates might go there. so if i offended any one that is strickly a
    bruins fan and not a hockey fan than i apologize.

    ...no man, no problemo...don't take ANYTHING said in her personally,
    it'll drive ya to drink (hmmmmmm...maybe that's my excuse)..
    
    %^)
    
    
    ...all I wuz saying wuz that the Cpas ain't nothin when compared
    to the Pens (as you inferred)....'tis ALWAYS cool to see new noters
    in here....jsut understand this is a verrry difficult time for us
    B's fan-atics....if you feel it's appropriate, perhaps you could send
    us a sympathy card.....
    
    
    mac

    ..opps, that's the "Caps", not the "Cpas"
    (who the hell know what they are!)
    
    ;^)
    
    mac

    Re. .28
    	
    	Sorry, but I have to disagree with you about Ranford. He was the
    reason that the Bruins made the playoffs last year, and he's the reason
    that they have the majority of their wins this year. I will agree that 
    GAA is often more closely related to the TEAMS performance, but a
    goalie's save percentage is more often a better indicator about the
    kind of goalie that he is. This is not always the case however either.
    If a goalie coughs up a lot of rebounds and his defense clears them
    away, he'll have a pretty good save percentage. If his defense lets the
    opposition pick them up and shoot again he might have a not so good
    save percentage. Carey has a better save percentage and GAA than
    Ranford. He did however, play for a team that paid more attention to
    team defense than he is now. I think that we can attribute a lot of
    Carey's problems last night to first night jitters with the new team. 
    That and the fact that there were soooo many odd man rushes that it was
    laughable had a lot to do with the fact that he did so pooly. I'll not
    pass judgement on anyone yet though. One game isn't a good enough
    indicator. You were right about one thing though, they NEVER should've
    traded Moog.
    
    Barry
    

    my sympathy for all the bruin die hards. as a penguins fan i know how
    disapointing it is when your team is down. i am sure that after all is
    said and done the bruins will eventually bounce back and be the team we
    can all be proud of. about that drink. any suggestions?

< about that drink...


I think Harry is partial to Scotch and water....  works for
him...  at least it seems to

    like a true hockey fan and canadian i will stick with beer, but thanks
    for the suggestion.

      just heard that oats contract has been negotiated and he is now a
    washington capitol. 

	No new contract yet... Oates will play tonight after the 
	Caps agreed to negotiate a new contract sometime this season.

	re: Moog

	He hated Bs management too.  Am I sensing a _trend_ here ?? 
	
	/Ken

    
    	If you look at GAA or Save Percentage, Jim Carey is better then
    Ranford in both categorys.
    
    Ron E.

    Sorry but team like Wash, Col and Detroit have defensemen that will not
    allow you to shoot from 15ft out. Shots against these teams are more
    often than not coming from the outside. A perfect example is Billy
    Smith; he was an awful goalie but w/ guys like Morrow, Potvin, Langevin
    and Pearsonn, no one dared cruise into the slot area.
    
    
    Andy

    Stats are not "be all end all".  Stats seldom tell the whole story.
    
    Ranford is an awesome goalie.  As a Sens fan with a case on beer on the
    line, I'm glad he's out of Boston.  I just wish he had been traded to a
    team in the other conference.
    
    Bernie.

   My take on "The Trade";

   I really don't have much emotion on what's going on with this organization.
   I'm glad we traded for some young players. I'm sorry to see Oates go. I was
   not that sorry about Ranford. When we acquired him I was happy, although
   I wanted the B's to secure CuJo, but it seems as though Ranford doesn't
   want to play in Boston and he was giving up early goals that IMO he should
   have stopped. Tochett will end up in Philly, IMO.

   I think it comes down to what this organization does in the coming off-
   season. They need to build a Team for the future, something they keep on 
   saying BUT they haven't done.


_sbn

    Oates is going to use #77 with the Caps! I think that is cool!

    ...ya, and he scored the game winner last night...and Billy-Boy
    made 20 saves for the "W", some reallllll dandies....
    
    ...and the ol' line gets dragged out into the light again:
    
    "...Why can't we get players like that?"
    
    Good for Oatsie...he left with class and with his honor intact....
    
    
    
    Charles Laquidera on 'ZLX is tellin' everyone to boycott the
    concessions at the Fleet right now....this is great!  Chuck's sayin'
    "Get drunk BEFORE you go to the game, eat BEFORE you go to the game..."
    This is cool......and the new buzz outta the Rumor Mill has Jacobs
    trying to get in with Cablevision to buy the Rangers, the Knicks, and
    MSG Network, and hopefully that he sells the B's to a local
    owner who actually gives a f*ck about the team...tha would be da ballz
    fer sure.....
    
    
    
    and re .40, what's was wrong with Billy ("I'll take yer knees out")
    Smith?  I used to LOVE this guy....man, gimme a battlin' goaler
    ANY day (although your point is taken about the "D" in front of him).
    
    humpday_mac

    	That's what I was trying to say Andy, that the stats said
    differently about Carey being better than Ranford, but that stats had
    to be taken with a grain of salt. 
    
    BTW, does anybody know when McLaren is supposed to be back? His absence
    is a big part of what's wrong with the defense currently.
    
    Barry
    

    
    
    Barry - Today's Globe says he'll be back for tomorrows game
    against the Islanders...

    	Thanks Chris. He'll be a big help toward giving Carey that extra
    protection.
    
    Barry
    

    
    
    I agree.  I think he has learned a lot in his 1+ year in the
    league due mostly to Bourque's influence.  McLaren has missed
    the last 13(?) games and in those games, the Bruins are an
    outstanding 1-9-3 for 5 points out of a possible 26!!!  I doubt 
    McLaren will provide any lift for the offense but he should at
    least contribute some towards protecting Carey. 
    
    CF

and need I remind the conference that it was that useless
sack of dung Samuleson, that caused this last injury
to Mclaren...

    ....."Bring me the head of Ulf Samuelson".......
    
    

    
    
    mac....you're gonna have a nice collection!

    I just want to know who you plan to use as a taxidermist for all these
    heads!     May need a name if I ever catch that "big" bass I fish for.
    
    /ed_who_is_usually_a_ron

    
    Has anyone else noticed that Rotman's has used 2 bruins players in
    there tv ad's over the past 4 years...and both of them have since been 
    traded to the Capitals. It must be like the 7th player award...win it and 
    the next year your toast. Do a Rotmans ad and you end up in Washington.
    
    Maybe we could get Harry, Mike and Steve to do an ad???
    
    john 

Bruins Choose Profits Over Playoffs
By Matt Brown, Boston Correspondent

Boston fans who complained that the Bruins could only put 2/3 of
a top line on the ice this season can quit squawking. Now even
that is gone.

Only hours after a heroic team effort in which the Bruins came
from behind to tie one of the best teams in hockey, Bruins
management ripped the heart out of the team by trading Adam
Oates, Rick Tocchet, and Bill Ranford to the Washington Capitals
for goalie Jim Carey, centers Anson Carter and Jason Allison, a
1997 third-round draft pick, and a conditional 1998 second-round
draft pick, if Tocchet signs on with Washington after the season.

22-year-old Anson Carter was a standout with Michigan State
before the Colorado Avalanche traded his rights to Washington on
April 3, 1996. He has seen limited action with the Caps, but
previously scored 19 goals and 19 assists this year for the Caps
top farm club, the AHL Portland Pirates.

Jaason Allison, a 21-year-old center, was named Canadian Major
Junior Player of the Year in 1994. He had 55 goals and 142 points
in his final full junior season, but he has only seven goals in
86 games with the Caps over the course of four seasons, and just
five goals and 16 assists in 52 games this year.

But there is little doubt that the 22-year-old Carey is the real
center of attention here. He is a native of Dorchester,
Massachusetts, and he led the NHL with nine shutouts last season.
But his record this season is mediocre, at 17-17-3 with a 2.74
GAA. Since his flop in the playoffs against Pittsburgh, he has
seen reduced playing time.

"I see them as potentially good, solid NHL players," Sinden said.
"We made the trade for youth. For the future, we think it was
time to take a run at a younger team with potential. We think we
have a lot of very good players in that age group. And if we can
solidify with some younger ones, it was time to do that."

While Oates and Tocchet were expected goners, the trade of Bill
Ranford caught most Bruins watchers totally by surprise, and
reactions ranged from disbelief to utter disgust. However, there
is no truth to the rumor that Jeremy Jacobs, the Bruins owner who
gave Harry Sinden a $100,000 Mercedes as a bonus last year, plans
to have the car refitted with bulletproof glass.

It remains to be seen whether, as a result of this trade, the
Bruins are a heart transplant candidate, or simply a brain-dead
organ donor. If the Bruins manage to sneak into the playoffs, it
will most likely be in spite of this trade rather than because of
it. But that is hardly the whole story.

Face it, a team gearing up for the playoffs does not deal three
of its four best players to a team directly competing with them
for the last playoff slot.

Like everything else Bruins General Manager Harry Sinden does,
this trade was not the simple six-player swap it appeared to be
on the surface. As one Bruins fan put it, "There are lies, damned
lies, and Harry Sinden."

Both Sinden and Capitals GM Dave Poile categorized this as a
"buyer beware" trade, given that Oates and Tocchet were known to
have contract problems brewing.

True to form, Tocchet has already said that he will not sign, and
Oates asked that he not be required to play for the Caps their
first game after the trade, with a hint that he will not suit up
at all until the contract matters are resolved. Bill Ranford, in
some respects the innocent victim in all this, dutifully dressed
as backup for Washington the next day against the Islanders.

However, this is a "buyer beware" trade on both sides. You have
to wonder why a team that is struggling on offense would deal a
22-year-old Vezina Trophy winning goalie with a 2.26 GAA for
Ranford, an increasingly brittle 30-year old goalie who missed 20
games hurt this year, has a recent history of nagging injuries,
hasn't had a GAA under 3.25 in seven years, and who has never had
a GAA under 3.00 in a year he played more than six games. The
answer is that Washington, or at least coach Jim Schoenfeld, were
disappointed in Carey's playoff performances, and covet the "big
save" ability and experience that Ranford brings to the job.

The Bruins front office is betting that a return to his hometown
will be just the ticket Jim Carey needs to regain his form,
mature in his position, and solidify his playoff performance. All
well and good, as long as you remember that a 22-year-old player
only becomes available when his current team gives up on him.
Would Dave Poile take the risks with Oates' contract, Ranford's
injuries, and Tocchet's contract and injuries, if he thought he
was giving Harry a "sure thing" goaltender and two young rarin'
to go centers? Don't forget, Dave Poile is the guy who sold Harry
on Al Iafrate for Joe Juneau. We all know how that turned out for
Boston.

In trading forwards, the Bruins gave up 100 points to gain 25 and
a whole lot of calendar time. Oates was leading the Bruins again
in scoring with 70 points, and Tocchet had chipped in 16 goals
and 14 assists between maladies. Anson Carter and Jason Allison
could muster all of eight goals between them, and two of those
came against the Bruins last week. Allison was a highly touted
prospect coming out of junior, but suddenly his reputation is in
the gutter, supposedly because his skating skills don't measure
up. Neither has Carter set the US Air Center aflame.

Fortunately for Boston, it just isn't that simple. Remember the
phrase about success in business -- "location, location,
location." Well, success in NHL hockey is "ice time, ice time,
ice time." Think back at the number of pluggers who blossomed
into All-Stars just by moving from the third line to the first
line at the right time, or when traded to the right team. The
classic example for the Bruins was Al Secord. A bruiser and
grinder with the Bruins, he became a scorer and an All-Star with
the Blackhawks because he got the ice time. There is an excellent
chance, or so the Bruins think, that given the ice time, of which
they got little in Washington, that either Carter or Allison or
both could begin to live up to their previously advertised
potential. Hey, it could happen!

Another important aspect of this trade is draft positioning. The
Bruins hold their own first-round pick, and that of the Hartford
Whalers, who are still suffering from the "Glen Wesley" hangover.
The Whalers are also fighting Washington for that last playoff
spot, and any trade that helps Washington hurts Hartford,
potentially giving the Bruins a higher draft pick to squander
along with their own, which is looking more lottery-likely with
each passing game.

And then there is youth. At the press conference announcing the
trade, Harry talked a great deal about youth and age. "We've been
thinking about having to make a move to have some youth in the
organization for quite a few months. I think that probably called
us to action," general manager Harry Sinden said.

It was here that Harry made the most sense, although there is a
sneaking suspicion that Harry was egged on to a degree by certain
Boston media members who have harped endlessly about the age
factor on the Bruins, and by Harry's recollection of the collapse
of the great Celtic Dynasty when the big three (Larry Bird,
Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale) all got old together fast.

"The youth Harry's talking about, I think this team badly needs,"
Steve "Master of Understatement" Kasper said. "Whether we'll be a
better team on the ice right now remains to be seen."

Obviously, Sinden's point that making the playoffs (or not)
wasn't the deciding factor in Steve Kasper's fate had to make
Stevie's part in this a little easier to bear.

"I can tell you this," said Kasper, "Morale in that locker room
will be better. Obviously, the last week's been very tough on our
team. I think it's time for me to go through the locker room now
and give all the players a pat on the back for making it through.
That distraction has been removed."

I'll bet they are just lining up at the door for that one.


In Boston's defense, Sinden's premise is to rebuild the team from
the goalie on out, following the example of New Jersey with
Martin Brodeur and Florida with the Beezer.

But there is a significant difference: each of these teams had a
stronger and more experienced core defense, and both used systems
which rely on strong backchecking, while the Bruins style has
always relied on strong forechecking. This Bruins team and coach
have yet to prove that they can consistently employ a
backchecking style game in and game out.

A further handicap is an almost universal lack of the team speed
needed to play both a forechecking and backchecking two-way
style. The sad truth is that even Patrick Roy would look more
like the Patrick of last Fall in Montreal rather than the Conn
Smythe winner of this Spring in Colorado, if he were playing for
the Bruins. The more accurate appraisal is that a world-class
goalie puts a strong team over the top, but may manage to keep a
pathetic team out of the cellar. See also: Bill Ranford, Edmonton
Oiler.

The saddest part of this trade is the total disregard of the
loyal Bruins fans. The people who buy the tickets spoke loud and
clear last Thurday with the ovations they gave to Oates. They
wanted Adam to stay. In reality, that only hastened his
departure.

Just like letting Joe Mullen go this year, before he could score
goal number 500 -- Sinden deprives fans of what little pleasure
they could get from this team. They had to dump Adam before he
scored his 1,000 career point (he was 16 points away when traded)
to avoid total embarrassment. Now they can potentially be
embarrassed when he does it for the Capitals.

When it all comes down to it, though, money is the root of all
Delaware North Companies, Inc., the corporate owners of the
Bruins. And the fact is that the Bruins dumped off $7 million in
salaries for an outlay of around $3.5 million. Do the math, and
add to that the reported $14 million that the hockey team alone
made last year, on the backs of fans paying the highest ticket
prices in the leagues -- don't even count the parking and
concessions. Case closed.

How did this all come to pass? Why would a team struggling to
make the playoffs deal a future Hall of Fame center, a goalie
with two Stanley Cup wins, and one of Wayne Gretsky's best pals
to Washington?

It all was triggered by a single goal.

The Bruins played one of their best games of the year against the
Avalanche, but lost on a dribbler of a goal in overtime with just
3.8 seconds remaining.

After the game, during a fairly routine post-game interview, Adam
Oates let loose with the blast heard 'round the hockey world,
letting out the secret that the Bruins weren't exactly the
strongest club in the league, and it wasn't the coaching, it
wasn't the players, it was the management team that had not
gotten the job done.

Well, that went over big. Bruins Assistant General Manager Mike
O'Connell fired back with pointed comments about Oates not
supporting his teammates, claiming that Oates was in effect
saying that his teammates weren't good enough to play along side
him.

The recriminations continued from there, with Mike trying to
embarrass Oates in the locker room in Chicago, pointing to other
players and asking Oates if this guy or that guy were good
enough.

While some traditionalists might feel that Oates violated the
sanctity of the locker room with his public airing of discontent,
and point to Raymond Bourque's quiet leadership as a better
example of perseverence, this is unfortunately the nineties.
Oates' comments were far tamer than those of players like Wayne
Gretzky, Brett Hull, and others. That doesn't make any of them
right, but it does point out that hockey players do have freedom
of speech in this brave new world.

The difference is that Boston management still deals with
discontent in classic Stalin-style -- exile to Siberia, or
someplace similar. Any difference of opinion on a player's part
is treated as disloyalty, even if that player has led the team
for five years without a discouraging word.

Of course, Harry and Mike can say whatever they want about a
player - call him a floater, lazy, washed up, and that is
"management's prerogative." They vilify Oates for
non-specifically saying that some of the Bruins players aren't as
strong as players on other teams, and then Mike and Harry
blithely ship the same players down to Providence with no pangs
of guilt whatever. In fact, this is exactly what Oates was
complaining about, rather than the player's skills themselves.
Listen: "A guy that was on my left wing three days ago just sat
out a game in the minors. Is that any way to treat people?" Oates
is talking about P.C. Drouin, a rookie who went from first line
in the NHL to benched in the AHL three days later. Even though
this is the kind of stuff you see in Dilbert's Book of Bad
Management, they say Oates is the one disrespecting Bruins
players? Please.

Hockey has changed, but not for the better, in this regard.
Players are no longer indentured servants (well, not as much),
owners are no longer sportsmen, and GMs like Sinden and O'Connell
are busy trying to stay one step ahead of lawyers and sleazeball
agents in the blame game.

Mike O'Connell spoke as if he were concerned that Boston's
players were upset by Oates' remarks. That hasn't seemed to be
the case. Ray Bourque hoped that Oates would stay put. "I hope I
don't have to worry about that," Bourque said. "I know what the
guy's meant to this organization. I know what he brings to the
rink each night. I know how hard he competes. I want to keep
playing with him. You don't want to lose anybody with that amount
of talent and that ability."

Well, what's one more disappointment for Ray anyway? Certainly
nothing worth getting embarrassed over, at least in Harry and
Mike's opinion.

Washington certainly knows what they want out of the trade. After
the tie game between the Caps and Bruins, Washington coach Jim
Schoenfeld was clearly sold on Ranford: "There was a guy on the
other end that made sure we only got one point. ... Ranford
played great," he added. "If you had to pick the difference in
this game, it's pretty obvious it was Bill Ranford."

Following the trade, Schoenfeld was even more optimistic: "If I'm
a Washington Capital and I hear that Rick Tocchet, Adam Oates and
Bill Ranford are coming to my team, I'm a Washington Capital that
has a lot more confidence today than I had yesterday. I think
it's going to be a big boost for our team."

So far, it is anything but a big boost for the Bruins, in spite
of Steve Kasper's "High Hopes" attitude. The team came out and
showed Jim Carey what it is like to be a Bruins goalie � pure
hockey playing misery, as they helpd stake him to a 4-1 deficit
in the first period, before he was unceremoniously yanked in his
first game. Welcome home, Jim.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                           [LCS: Guide to Hockey]
         LCS: guide to hockey � copyright 1997 all rights reserved

    ...OK, mac's got Jeremy Jacobs HOME address....courtesy of Chuck
    Laquidera on 'ZLX....he's urging ALL disgruntled B's fans to
    start a letter-writing campaign:
    
    Jeremy Jacobs
    1300 North Davis Road
    East Aurora, N.Y. 14052
    
    Now, if yer gonna write a few letters, be constructive (if possible),
    'cuz otherwise he'll just hire someone to open his mail (hell, he's
    probably already got a few stiffs to do this anyway).....
    
    now, call mac an optimist, but it reallly makes me feel better to 
    get rid of this negative energy and turn it into positive energy....
    all fer the price of a 32 cent stamp....
    
    
    bombs away!!!
                 

    
    
    mac - did you win the tickets to the concert of your choice?

    
    This trade sucked. 
    
    There isn't a fool on earth that should think that Harry & OConnell 
    have made any positive impact on this team in the last couple years. 
    
    It is very sad that Jacobs & B's management have been allowed to play
    the Boston fans for fools for so long. 
    
    I still say that the biggest chumps related to this team are the fans 
    who blindly follow these losers and pay in any way shape or form to 
    support this franchise as it is. 
    
    

    ..re: .56
    
    Nope, CF.....I got the E. Aurora part kerrect, but someone else
    found his street address......
    
    RP, your points are well-founded and well-taken, but I LUV hockey,
    so it's logical that I support College Hockey, the IHL, the AHL,
    and yes, even the despicable Boston Bruins....this team WILL
    turn around, when and how much of a turn around is certainly
    up for debate....I certainly won't got to the Fleet (unless
    I get freebies), but I don't see any harm in my Annual Pilgrimage
    to Beautiful Montreal to watch 'em battle Les Habs....
    (p.s. St. Catherine's Street ain't bad either, for amusement only,
    of course...)
    
    ;^)
    
    
    I guess I'm a true BLack and Gold optimist....*maybe* the rumors
    about Jacobs buying the Ranger/Knicks/MSG Network will happen,
    freeing up the Broons to be bought by a White Knight with
    a load of cash-ola.....
    

    
    If anyone wants to compare Carey to Ranford please feel free... 
    
    Carey may have had some potential but after spending even this 1/2 a 
    season in Boston with zero help and guidance this kid will be reduced
    to another Blaine Lacher.  Bruins need a mature high quality goaler 
    like Ranford to keep everything in perspective. Carey is playing with 
    zero confidence and it's showing in his game. He really might have been 
    a great goalie in years to come but not in this system. 
    
    As for the other 2... Carter has looked pretty good but he's no
    prolific scorer. Allison is another lunch-pailer. So all in all after 
    5+games I'd still say I was right (as usual) Boston got roasted in this 
    deal. 
    
     Rp 
    

    About Lacher,  he's now out of hockey altogether.  He decided to retire
    rather than play in the minors.  He's 26 years old.
    
    Bernie.

    Lacher...
    
    The Ottawa Citizen or Sun had an interesting article about him a week
    or two ago. Can't remember the full details, but he is happy now that
    he's out of hockey.
                           
    Sean

    ...I hear that Jon Casey is playing real well as of late for (I think)
    the Ice Cats(?)....maybe we could trade Carey for Casey, then get Moog
    back when he goes on waivers this Summer....
    
    ;^)
    
    toungue_in_cheek_mac

    With Washington's sudden improvment since the trade (not!), I can see
    perhaps why Oates and Tochett have been traded by so many teams. I
    think these guys keep a team down. First thing Oates does after the
    trade is complain about his contract and I have heard that Tochett is a
    cancer. Maybe this is the best trade Boston has made getting rid of
    these guys, although I still think they could have received more. 
    Buffalo is proof a team concept wins no matter who is in your line-up.
    Perhaps the B's can make this work.
    
    Sean
    

    >>Buffalo is proof a team concept wins no matter who is in your line-up.
    
    Wrong....Buffalo is proof that an ordinary team can with with an 
    extraordinary goalie in your line-up.  Check their record when Hasek 
    is out.
    
    Bernie.

    Okay a team concept works when you have a good goalie. ie Florida and
    Buffalo. The point is teams like Vancouver and Toronto (have decent
    goalies) who are/were talent rich did not get the job done because of 
    no team concept. 
    
    Sean
    
    

    Now that some time has passed, some of you may want to
    comment on "the trade".   
    
    David Poile was canned as GM of the Washington Capitals today.  Do you
    think that this trade had anything to do with it?  I certainly thought
    that the Caps had secured themselves a playoff spot with this trade but
    it didn't happen.  Now their future looks uncertain.
    
    I think that Carter is turning out to be the best player aquired by the
    Bruins in this trade.  I never noticed him before he went to the
    Bruins but he did impress me once he got there.  He's also playing very
    well for Canada at the World Championships.
    
    
    Bernie.

    
    Still think the Bruins got screwed. Oates was the best player in this 
    trade and will be for at least 3 more years. bundle that with Ranford 
    Carrying Boston on his back for a season vs what Carey was able to do
    and I still think Sinden didn't get enough. Tocchet isn't going to
    resign with the Caps so there goes that draft pick. 
    
    The real question will be who else is sinden going to bring in for the 
    money he saved on that deal ? If he goes and gets another top player
    besides Thornton (who max's the salary cap at 900K) with the remaining 
    million+ then I guess Sinden would have done alright. 
    
    Rp 
    
    

    
   I'm glad it happened - a house cleaning. I'm still waiting on what the
   summer will bring to this team.


_sbn    

    
    Steve- I hate Harry... I think he has overstayed his welcome. 
    
    I think he's shown his stupidity too much as of late to have confidence
    in anything he has done of late. 
    
    I still think Oates was worth keeping. To replace him and then improve 
    upon the quality of the team will not happen with the likes of Harry
    type players. 
    
    As for those who talk about Florida and NJ the systems of team play
    little high profile players... Well where are they this year ? GONE!
    Why? because their goalies were human this year. 
    
    Rp 
    
    Rp 
    

    	I think Ranford was the biggest loss in this trade. Even if Carey
    returns to his Vezina Trophy winning form, I don't think that he's as
    good a goalie as Ranford. Ranford can carry a team, Carey had a team
    that played good defense in front of him when he won the Vezina. This 
    isn't to take anything away from Carey however, he's still a good
    quality goaler. 
    
    	Oates will be missed, but looking at the number of useful years
    that he has left, and comparing them to the potential number of useful
    years that Carter has left, I can live with swapping them one for one. 
    Oates' game has peaked. He's at the top of the roller coaster and
    lookin' down at the first drop. He may hang in there and produce for
    another year or two and then he'll lose a step or two. He'll still be
    good mind you, but not the player that he was. During this same period
    of time, Carter should continue to improve. He seems to have pretty
    good hands and I really like his hustle. After what Oates said, he HAD
    to be traded. I agree 100% with what he said, but for Sinden, it was
    like removing a cancerous tumor, there was no choice. Oates sealed his
    own fate when he shot his mouth off and I'm sure that even before he did
    it he knew what the consequences of his actions would be. No problem
    there.
    
    	As far as Tocchet and Jason Allison. Tocchet's game has really
    dropped off. I don't know whether this was a function of his age, or
    his inability to get along with Kasper but it was clearly visible. He
    (like all of us) ain't getting any younger and he's a year or two away
    from retirement at best. Allison doesn't look like much of a catch but
    maybe he'll fit in better with the new coach next year. If he doesn't
    it's no big deal, we didn't exactly send off much to get him.
    
    	I guess in the long run the good part was getting Carter and the
    bad part was losing Ranford. If I had to rate it, as trades go, I'd say
    that it was an average trade, you give, you get.
    
    Barry
   

    
>    Steve- I hate Harry... I think he has overstayed his welcome. 
    
   Ron - it's good to read your unbiased opinions. You'll be the first to
   blame Harry if Thorton doesn't pan out (if they select him and if he
   doesn't pan out).

   Ron, could you list all of Harry's "BAD" moves since he's been the GM.
   Don't be shy, I know you know them all.  8*)


_sbn    

>        -< Average. Give Harry a "C" on his report card for that one. >-

    Sinden was on TSN's "That's Hockey!" last night.
    
    They were talking about if Sinden would consider trading the # 1 pick
    and then Sinden started mumbling that he would have to see what was
    offered in return.  He was asked point blank if he would trade it...and
    Sinden said that Eric Lindros was traded.    
    The host then asked Sinden if he considered Thornton to be in the same
    class as Lindros and Harry answered "yes" without hesitation.
     
    Harry then went on to say he asked his scouts to go over their reports
    on Roberto Luongo (the goalie from Val D'or).
    
    pete

	Well, Pete, I will remind you of the conversation we had up in 
Montreal at the DEC Tourney when we were talking about the draft.  I liked the 
goalie as the best kid in the draft but the Bruins needed Thornton.  I could 
see the B's moving up from the 8 spot (Hartford) coupled with a player or two 
to grab this kid with their second pick.  You gotta go with Thornton though.

Regards,

	Chuck

    Re. .72
    
    	Ok, maybe a C+ or a B- . When I was teaching night school there
    were those that thought that on occaision maybe I wasn't as generous with
    the grades as I could have been. 8-)
    
    
    Barry