Conference 501clb::pcdoom

    Obviously everyone's gotta be honest! 30 seconds is not feasible!
    
    
    is it?
    ;-)

    We should also see who has the most ammo / health / armour left.
    
    'COS.......
    
    Otherwise you could just go around, lay into everything with all you've
    got, and get a really quick time.  This isn't how we play DOOM, so it
    isn't how we should do this.
    
    <runs and hides before abuse starts pouring in>
    
    Ed

    I think my brain must be fading worse than I thought. You must be
    talking about DOOM1 in .0 'cos none of it's familiar.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. Health and ammo must count for summat.

    >>We should also see who has the most ammo / health / armour left.
    
    True that's a good idea, particularly in a tie-breaker situation, BUT
    
    >Otherwise you could just go around, lay into everything with all
    >you've got, and get a really quick time.  This isn't how we play DOOM,
    >so it isn't how we should do this.
    
    What do you mean, 'We' ? This is the principle idea.... do the level as
    quickly as you can. Don't die, yeah, but run as close to the edge as
    you want. Cripes if we tell them that, they'll be namby-pambying around
    saying 'ooo I don't want to get hurt'. YES, do it as fast as you can
    while trying to stay alive, laying into everything with all you've got.
    Surely THIS is how most people play the game? Are their seriously
    people out there who think "Oh I won't kill that imp quite yet, I feel
    this whole needles-violence scenario is quite unethical" ?!?!?!?!
    
    Just an IMHO,
    
    	Dan

    Nah, I didn't mean it like that.
    
    I agree that everything should get wasted, I mean, thats the whole
    point.  All I mean is that when someone plays DOOM, they are playing
    more than 1 level, and so try to use as little ammo as possible, while
    still causing as much destruction/carnage as possible :-).
    
    So the point is that it's more impressive to see someone has done a
    fast time, but managed not to get themselves ripped to pieces.
    
    This could of course, mean a whole separate challenge.........
    
    Ed
    
    

    Okay then. Ammo, armour and health reported at the end also.
    
    I agree, the better you can do without losing health..... but time will
    be the main factor.
    
    Go to it, people!

    I still think it's DOOM1, and I'm not sure I've still got it any
    more...
    
    Laurie.

    Yes, Doom1. Well you can always use the shareware version.
    
    :-)

    
    
    
     I haven't got doom 1 
    
     Don't want it either !!!!!!!!
    
     I say lets use level  ?  of Doom 2 
     
     Then we all can play. 
    
     Gary_who_is_the_biggest_so_listen_wisely
    
    
    

    Take a look at the performance notes and you'll see how many people
    have got Doom 1 compared to Doom 2. Plus, Doom 1 is shareware whereas
    Dooom 2 isn't.
    
    Sorry, but Doom 1 is the more popular/widespread so I think we should
    go with that.
    
    You could always do it for both, I guess.

    
    Does the Doom 1 shareware version have the same hidden rooms? I
    remember that a new secret room arrived somewhere between 1.1 and
    1.666!
    
    So we'd better say use 1.666 and stop winging about not having it,
    episode 1 is FREE!

    Ahhh, I've been using 1.2 Registered and trying to make sense of Dan's
    run-through. Now I know, a secret room is missing! I'll have to copy
    1.666 shareware...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    >> I've been using 1.2 Registered
    
    Well get the 1.666 registered patch.

    Ahh sorry didn't realise there was a difference between 1.666 and
    1.2/etc.
    
    Umm... yeah, the patch is on flyte so it shouldn't be a problem. Or
    else, if you're really fussed (ie. want to keep your faster version
    ;-] ) then either make a backup of the old DOOM.EXE and DOOM.WAD or
    else just mention that you used v1.2 instead. Though it'd be easier to
    just upgrade to 1.666
    
    Should I suggest that everyone records their attempts? Then the top
    person can not be accused of lying, since we could put the demo up on
    flyte for all to verify, or UUENCODE it and put it in here. What do you
    reckon? I think this would stop a lot of arguments!! :-)
    
    Can someone verify the command to record a demo?
    
    Cheers,
    	Dan

Well here goes...

doom -devparm -warp < ep> < lv> -skill < num> -record < file>

Where:

< ep> is 1 for the shareware version, or 1 to 3 for the full version,

< lv> is 1 to 9 (level 9 is always the secret level, although the actual level
from which you get to a secret level is never level 8),

< num> is 1 to 4 for v1.1, or 1 to 5 for v1.2 or higher,

< file> is the name of the file that the demo is to be saved to. NOTE: the
'.lmp' suffix MUST NOT be included in the file name. If you do include it,
Doom will not be able to find the file!

therefore, to record the competition level :-

doom -devparm -warp 1 1 -skill 4 -record mydemo

Jonathan
    
    p.s: to check demo, ie replay type :-
    
    doom -playdemo < file name>

    
    
     <Sob sob>   I can't play now because I don't know what to do ... and
    then when I know what to do I won't know how to do it    <sob>
    
    
    
     Gary

    Right then, that's sorted (thanks).
    
    Everyone should record a demo of their attempt, as proof. Does it
    record time and print it out when you finish re-playing the file? I
    can't imagine timing it by a watch because people's machines might run
    at different speeds (drive access, processor speed, etc) ???
    
    Dan (wondering how a recorded demo can be used as proof)

    Supposedely (i haven't tried it tho), when you replay the demo it show
    the final summary screen at the end.
    
    BTW, I think there is a time limit of 15-17 minutes...but anyone taking
    *that* long deserves to die in a vat of green waste ;-)
    
    Jonathan

    >>BTW, I think there is a time limit of 15-17 minutes...but anyone
    >>taking *that* long deserves to die in a vat of green waste ;-)
    
    If I remember rightly there is an option to increase the recordable
    demo size, but the option eludes me at the moment.
    
    I need a PC at work, I tell you.... what excuse can I tell my boss?!
    Errm... yeah, I need to use Windows a lot. Umm... yeah, document
    preparation and all that. Will need at least a P90 :-))))

    Ok,
    
    First score is in 100% health, 200% armour, 100% of all 3, 3mins 1
    second. Got the lmp and checked it ok.
    
    How about a prize of the best person able to have a notes personal
    name/Internet Sig of "Digital DOOM Champion"?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    Okay, second score :-
    
    2mins 21
    Can't remember what health/armour/ammo I had left, but it wasn't 100%.
    I'll put the .lmp on flyte if you want.
    
    >>How about a prize of the best person able to have a notes personal
    >>name/Internet Sig of "Digital DOOM Champion"?
    
    Ha ha! :-)
    
    Regards,
    Dan

    Any mathematicians care to come up with a formula that takes into
    account the time and health/armour left to give a single figure, so
    perhaps a slower time with more health/armour gets a better score than
    a really fast time with 1% health left!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    Add a second on for each 1% of health/armour missing?!
    
    So long as we all do the same, it doesn't matter if it's very simple.
    
    Dan

    It looks as if, in order to get a look in, I'm going to have to steer
    clear of the beer in the fridge this evening... my best so far is 4:46.
    Mind you, that was with one eye shut ;^) Maybe I need a faster PC...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Run it on a Pentium - the timer at the end of the level will probably
    be calculated wrong, and 4:46 will change to 2:26 !
    
    <smirk>
    
    Dan

There don't appear to be too many entries so far, so...

An entry from Australia, as per the run rules in 153.15...

FLYTE::AUSDEMO.LMP

Time: 1:58

    re .26
    
    That is some time, well done!!

    Jeez, I thought I was fast but now I see myself for the pedestrian 
    I really am.
    
    As soon as FLYTE becomes reachable I'm gonna pull this .LMP and get
    some tips.
    
    Stunning  (:'.
    
    		Nick.
    
    PS has anyone worked out how to play back a demo that was recorded on a
    level higher than 1 (doom1 or 2)? Whenever I try it the play back
    happens in level 1 and all I can do is watch as my alter ego runs round
    peppering the walls and occasionally accidentally wings a baddie. 8-}

    Phew! Okay, Doom conferences is back up so :-
    
    FLYTE::USER1:[ARCHIVE.DOOM.CONF_USERS]<username>.LMP/ZIP
    
    ...is where to find the demos.
    
    1:58 ! Cripes what a time!
    
    I managed to get 2:11 yesterday with full everything. I'll have to grab
    this 1:58 lmp and see what's up ;-) !!
    
    Keep 'em coming guys...
    
    (and remember, the 'run' key also makes you 'turn' quicker.)

    Well, I watched Dan's LMP last night, and it clear that, as he said to
    me off-line, there's room for improvement. However, 1:58 is bloody
    fast! I'll watch that one tonight.
    
    I've managed to get my time down to well under 4mins with a couple of
    tips from Dan's LMP, but even on a smaller screen, I keep over
    compensating on my 486SX-25. It's ok for normal games, but in this
    challenge I find myself running past doors, or bumping into things a
    lot. I'm finding it particularly difficult to aim quickly, whereas if I
    take a little more time, it's ok. Time to borrow a Pentium!
    
    One thing's become clear though, a condition of the challenge should be
    to finish on 100% health, and 200% armour, with the numbers of ammo
    left as the tie-breaker.
    
    I'll keep practising...
    
    Dan, a suggestion. The LMP/ZIPs should be in a separate directory as
    they're mixed up with WADS.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

>> I find myself running past doors, or bumping into things a
>>    lot. I'm finding it particularly difficult to aim quickly, whereas if I
>>    take a little more time, it's ok.

While the wife is away, the mouse will play  !

Skippy.

    re.30
    
    >>One thing's become clear though, a condition of the challenge should
    >>be to finish on 100% health, and 200% armour, with the numbers of ammo
    >>left as the tie-breaker.
    
    I'd go with this. It's clear to see from the .LMP's that it's NOT hard
    to finish with 100% health & 200% armour. The ammo bit can be used as a
    tie-breaker, but the time will be the main pointer as to who is quicker
    ofcourse!
    
    I'll bring my new improved 2:11 .LMP in tomorrow. It looks slower
    and messier (clumsy shots, etc) but for some reason was 10 seconds
    quicker!! Very confusing - now if I could improve on THAT, maybe the
    1:58 would be more likely :-)
    
    Dan$learning

    The 1.58 one is very smooth, the 'author' whilst not being 100%
    accurate with the shotgun, seems to go every where with the shift key
    depressed, and doesn't seem to bump into anything.
    
    Looking at his .lmp, I believe he can do it faster!
    
    BTW Did the 1.58 author use a keyboard or mouse?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    What order does he do it in, Greg?
    
    Dan (no PC at work so can't look at it yet!).
    
    P.S. Probably mouse, I guess.....

    Skippy, not beer last night, Ozzie red wine!
    
    Ok, a mouse-related question. I find using the mouse for movement a
    pain, requiring that the mouse be picked up and repositioned on the mat
    in order to continue in given direction. For this reason, I use the
    arrow keys for movement and the mouse for fine adjustment. Am I doing
    something wrong?
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    re.35
    
    Sounds good to me. I use keyboard only (can't get the hang of mouse)
    though I reckon mouse would be handy.... partilcularly this 'circle
    around target while firing' idea...
    
    P.S. At a request, I have created a sub-directory on flyte for these
    thousands of demos that are pouring in. Logically, it's :-
    
    	flyte::user1:[archive.doom.conf_users.challenge]
    
    Sorry I ZIPped mine up - I thought it would save space. It doesn't
    really, so in future there's no point in ZIPping .LMP's.....
    
    Regards,
    Dan

    re .53  (IMHO, FWIW, etc.)
    
    I'm no good with the keyboard but have watched both methods and believe
    the mouse to be quicker for turning. An avid keyboard fan recently
    watched me play and remarked on how much faster I could turn using the
    mouse than he with a keyboard. However, mouse responses vary and
    so do techniques.
    
    I turn my mouse-mat through 45 deg's and by using the whole corner to 
    corner width can get a very fast 360 turn with my MS-mouse. Using
    someone elses setup though I usually find the lack of response unplayable
    and start `scooting' the mouse wildly in a vain attempt to turn faster
    within the confines of the mouse-mat.
    
    This is always a bad ploy IMHO, all the time the device is airborne you
    have no sideways control or speed. I think a good mouse player anticipates,
    subconciously, in which direction he may next need to turn and positions
    the mouse accordingly (by lifting) such that each turn can be executed in
    one smooth sweep without leaving the mat.  
    
    If your mouse mat is too small or your mouse too slow try turning up the
    mouse sensitivity (in doom OPTIONS) and/or do away with the mouse mat and
    use a large area of clean desk.
    
    Better still, and I think I might try this, make a mouse mat to the
    dimensions you require.
    
    14"x10" would be just dandy for me. Anyone got an old wet-suit they don't
    need any more?  =^)
    
    Tara,
    		Nick.

    You can see why I don't use the keyboard for direction control!
    
    {^8
    		Nick.

    
    
     Re mousein   - 
    
     I tried using the mouse for the first time Saturday  $-{
    Ended up blasting myself in the face at  PBR, running when I should
    shoot, shoot when I should run etc...    I think the keybd's for me. 
    
    
     Gary 

    I use the joystick, and only occasionally use the keyboard for
    when I need to strafe(sp?) from side to side or run with the
    shift key.  If I had a 4'x4' mouse pad and Kevin McHale arms
    that drag on the floor, I'd reconsider using the mouse.  kb

    OK Dan, you started this, how 'bout you laying down some concrete rules
    and scoring method for this pack of bloodied hounds to measure itself
    by.
    
    I liked your suggestion in .23 and the ammo tie-breaker thing and the
    title of `Doom Champion' etc. it just needs pulling together.  :D
    
    
    Nick - cant-break-the-2-minute-barrier-but-hoping-he-can-win-on-points.

    
    Straight time.
    
    This is a sprint.  Not a marathon.
    
    - Jim
    

    RE .0

    Dan,

    Just curious if this challenge was inspired from the following note
    in GAMES back in March. (?)

    Kevin 
    (Who just opened this conf in order to figure out Doom 2 Lev 7...)

              <<< 501CLB::EIS4$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GAMES.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< Welcome to GAMES >-
================================================================================
Note 2210.448                         DOOM                            448 of 667
SMAUG::MENDEL "Welcome to the next baselevel"        22 lines   8-MAR-1994 15:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, I haven't saved up for the registered version yet, so I've been
    inventive with the shareware version. 

    Have you ever ....

    (These may be spoilers for some ...)

    -	Been able to do level 1 in 30 seconds? At skill level 3? -And-
	get the blue breastplate? My record is 32 seconds.

    -	Gotten the red key on Level 6 -without- opening the doors? I did. 

    -	On the last level, gotten back down to the "supplies" portion of
        the game? By riding the top of the wall as it goes down? 

    -   Survived the "end"? I'm trying. I have 216% Armor and 199% Health
	going in, and I think I'm getting close. Degreeless mode doesn't 
	work, I'm afraid.

    Kevin 

1:58 was only a starter challenge to make everyone take the
contest seriously :-)   If we start looking at sub 2 mins,
then it makes everyone really work for it!

If you look at the 1:58 you'll see that it's fast and 
generally smooth, but certainly not "clean".  I figure 
there's probably AT LEAST another 8-10 seconds in it yet.

You'll notice I run right around the centre alcove in the 
computer room to get the lift to work.  I haven't figured 
out exactly how far back you need to go back into the computer
room to trigger it.

re: question in .33, I use the numeric keyboard for movement,
and very fast fingers (but that's another story).

regards
Crocodile Waz

    >>You'll notice I run right around the centre alcove in the
    >>computer room to get the lift to work.
    
    Oh my God!~ Have a look a my .lmp and you'll see you don't have to run
    anywhere near that far away! You could shave SECONDS of your time!
    
    As for the rules, well, same as in the base note, but as regards
    health/armour/ammo at the end :-
    
    Every 1%, add a second on to time.
    Ammo will be used in the case of a tie-breaker.
    
    The level really shouldn't be that hard to finish with 100%/200% so
    everyone should try to do that. Does anyone see a problem with this
    idea?
    
    Dan$still at 2:11 and getting frustrated ;-) !!

    
    
    	What version is all this taking place on?
    
    	I am still stuck with 1.1 as I have no Pc access to the network.
    
    	SPaeking of which.... would it be possible for a kind sole to 
    	send me a couple of floppies with a later version 1.2 or 1.666
    	and also a copy of Aliens-TC. Feel free contact me off line if anyone
    	can oblige with this.
    	Tony G Bush @LON or YUPPY::BUSH
    
    
    	On v1.1 level 1 seems to be slightly different. I s this right?
    
    	Stuck at a time of 2:59.
    
    		Tony

    To play this you need Doom1 V1.666 Shareware (or registered) version.
    
    You can pull the shareware version off the net, it's in the doom
    archives on FLYTE::
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Is 1:45 straight enough?  (='>
    
    Now how do I copy it to FLYTE? I get the following message...
    
    $ copy/log demonik1.lmp
    43585::USER1:[ARCHIVE.DOOM.CONF_USERS.CHALLENGE]*
    
    %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening
    43585::USER1:[ARCHIVE.DOOM.CONF_USERS.CHALLENGE]D
    EMONIK1.LMP;1 as output
    -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation
    %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, $1$DIA2:[HEWETT.DOOM]DEMONIK1.LMP;1 not copied
    
    	Nick.  %-{

    re .46
    
    Tony,
    
    Send me some floppies and I'll put the patches on for you.
    
    
    Greg Hilton@lzo
    
    Greg

    RE: .48
    
    Sensibly, Dan has obviously set WORLD NOWRITE on that directory. Mail
    him on FORTY2::HOWELL and tell him you've got a file ready.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.
    
    PS. Good time!

Well done Nick.  1:45 sure beast my 1:58.

The best I've been able to do since is 1:51 with
105% health.

I don't expect to get any faster, so I salute the
victor... 

1:45 can be a challenge for the others.

regards
Warren

  re .36:

>    P.S. At a request, I have created a sub-directory on flyte for these
>    thousands of demos that are pouring in. Logically, it's :-
>    
>    	flyte::user1:[archive.doom.conf_users.challenge]

    I've copied a few .LMP files from here, but when I try to replay them
  it's just like spinning around in HOM land. Is this some kind of version
  mismatch?
						John Gillings, Sydney CSC

    Well, tell us what version you're using and we'll tell you!
    
    ;-)
    
    These will only replay on Doom 1 v1.666

    Listen up all you plebians and underlings!
    
    I've held a ceremonious er... ceremony and have hereby appointed myself
    Official Digital DOOM Champion recognised under the 153.xx act of 1994.
    
    All comers welcome to take a shot at the title (key tappers and joy
    riders needn't bother, you haven't got a chance  ;') ).
    
    	Nick the champ ?3^>
    
    
    PS. I reckon 1:35 may be possible with the right tactics - go to it
    mousers.  !-)
                                                         

    All kneel before the master!
    
    Maybe I should learn mouse control then..... :-)
    
    Dan

    Gee this is a pretty empty title, wez the competition?     
    
    Holidays I guess.
    
    Anyway to keep the ball rolling I am placing HEWETT_2.LMP for your
    perusal. It's a pretty scrappy 1:40 and I think health and armor were
    only 94% and 190% resp' but it gives a big hint at how to shave 5-10
    seconds off your time.  ?3^>
    
    Dan, could you do your bit and copy it from TRUCKS:: again?
    
    Cheers,
    		Nick

    Consider it done ;-)
    
    Just on the record, I'm up to 2:11 now but can't be bothered to upload
    it since it's just sooooooo crap.
    
    One thing, these times (HEWETT.LMP and GEORGE.LMP) - are they with
    mouse/keyboard control or just keyboard? (I imagine the former).
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    Mine are done with the mouse but GEORGE.LMP is keyboard (if it's the
    renamed AUSDEMO.LMP).
    
    You can generally tell by watching, a keyboard controlled recording is
    very smooth and fluid to watch (IMHO) due to the constant rate of turn.
    Whereas my mouse controlled efforts always strike me as frenetic and
    jerky.  %~/
    
    Nick.      

    Just to give Nick a nice Xmas pressie, I mailed ID to see what they
    could do on the challenge...
    
    Greg
    
    
From:	VBORMC::"[email protected]" "help desk" 23-DEC-1994 01:01:07.65
To:	Quit throwing garbage into our dimension <bahtat::hilton>
CC:	
Subj:	Re: Speed!

: Here in Digital, we're seeing how fast we can complete level 1 of Doom 1, 

: with
: 100% of everything, 200% armour, 100% health.

We have done this a few times. I just now tried it and did 100% kills, 84%  
items, and 100% secrets in 1:31. I think I could do about the same with 100%  
items, but I am not so sure about the 200% armor, 100% health part.
Don't think I could do any better than your freind there.
(only so much a person can do something.)

: So I assume you guys can do it in sub 1 minute, I would appreciate a .lmp to
: give us all something to aim at!

haha
I think not.

---
-American McGee ([email protected])
	aka [email protected]
	id Software

ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4]	id "Official" anonymous FTP site 

ftp.orst.edu			id's other "Official" anonymous FTP site
	-----------------------------------------------
	For the latest info on DOOM, QUAKE and other id
	news, FINGER [email protected]
	-----------------------------------------------
NeXT Mail preferred.

% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
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% Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100.2)
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% To: Quit throwing garbage into our dimension <bahtat::hilton>
% Subject: Re: Speed!

    Gee thanx Greg,
    
    That's made my day. Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year to you too
    
    I don't suppose ID need someone to speed test QUAKE for them do they?
    
    	Nick.  (='D

    Looking on the newsgroups someone's opened an ftp site for .LMP's.
    They're doing a similar thing to our Doom challenge, only there's is
    for *WIMPS*. get a load of this :-
    
    Directory of ...\PUB\DOOMLMPS\EXAMPLES
    E1M1-344 ZIP     DooM - Episode 1 Mission 1 in 03 Minutes and 44
    		     Seconds
    
    
    Pfaaaaa! Pathetic or what! And they only go on time, not 100% kills or
    anything.... pathetic!
    
    Come on, someone upload your .LMP to them! Here are the details :-
    
    "Site" Info.
    
          FTP   to   BRAINS.CC.RL.AC.UK
          LOGIN   as   anonymous
    
          Use your own E-MAIL address as the password
    
          CD   to   PUB/DoomLMPS/...etc...
    
          And then...
    
          First type "BIN" for binary mode...
          And have a quick snoop around...
          "GET" whatever you like...
          The .TXT files first...
    
          Then "QUIT" Out.
    
          0README.1ST, 0README.2ND & COMPET-N.TXT
          would be a good choice to begin with... :-)
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    BTW Check out
    
    http://www.hti.net/dwango/dht.html
    
    for another kind of Doom challenge.
    
    Greg

    Greg,
    
    Can you elaborate?
    
    I am webless. :(
    
    
    	Nick.

    If your webless, it's useless!
    
    Does your PC have eXcursion on it or TCP/IP?

    eXcursion - yes
    TCP/IP    - no
    
    Nick.