Conference tecrus::mormonism

	Unless things have changed, the President of the Quorum of the Twelve,
	Howard W. Hunter, will be the next prophet, or President, of the church.

	Charles

    Steve Benson and his wife had some interesting things to say about this
    (and other things) in last week's Arizona Republic.  If I get time,
    I'll try to enter it.

	President Benson's funeral is being broadcast.  It can be seen in
	the stake center at 10am on Saturday.

    re. last
    
    10am in which time zone?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Frank M.

>         <<< Note 453.5 by QBUS::F_MUELLER "HOME but not forgotten!" >>>
>    10am in which time zone?
    
	Mountain, which is the same as Salt Lake City.  It should be offset
	by stakes in other time zones to the appropriate time.  I would
	expect this to be world wide just like the conference broadcasts.

It was officially announced this morning here in Salt Lake that, as
expected, President Hunter was set apart on Sunday as the 14th President
of the Church. 

He has called President Hinkley and President Monson to continue as 
First and Second Counselors respectively.

Kevin

    Thanks Kevin, Now I don't have to wait until Sunday. Who is the
    President of the Quorum of the 12 now?
    
    frank

>He has called President Hinkley and President Monson to continue as 
>First and Second Counselors respectively.

	I find that strange as Hinkley should now be president of the Quorum
	of the Twelve.  I was expecting Monson to be 1st councilor and Packer
	to be 2nd councilor.

    Technically, Hinckley is the President of the Twelve.  His call to
    serve in the First Presidency takes precedence.  Boyd K. Packer will
    fill in as Acting President of the Twelve.
    

These are some excerpts from today's Salt Lake Tribune. Below these are
some excerpts from President Hunter's Monday speech to print & TV
reporters. 

Kevin 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salt Lake Tribune, 7 June 1994, Pages 1 & 4: 

     "On Monday morning, Mormons worldwide heard the voice of a prophet for
the first time in almost five years (sic).
      "'I pledge my life, my strength and the full measure of my soul to
serving Jesus Christ fully,' said President Howard W. Hunter, the newly
elevated head of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 
      "Hunter, 86, was ordained the 14th president of the LDS Church on
Sunday in a private ceremony in the Salt Lake Temple. The apostles all
laid their hands on his head and the most senior member, Gordon B.
Hinckley, pronounced a blessing."... 

     "Hunter, weakened by serious health problems, used a walker to enter
the room [where he gave a press conference on Monday.]"... 

     "Elder Boyd K. Packer, who has been a member of the Quorum of the
Twelve Apostles for the past 24 years, became acting president of the
Twelve because the Quorum's senior member, Hinckley, will [be in the First
Presidency]." 

     [President Hinckley, 84, has been a member of the Quorum for 32 years.
President Monson, 66, is next senior with 30 years as an Apostle.] 

     "Packer, 69, the former Church Education System administrator, has
become noted for his no-nonsense loyalty to doctrine and the general
authorities who lead the church."... 

     "'President Hunter is a true disciple of Christ,' says [Fred] Voros,
[a Salt Lake attorney who has spoken out against recent disciplinary
actions.] 'He leads not by saying, "follow me," but by saying "follow
[Jesus]."' 

Among President Hunter's words on Monday: 

     "Our hearts have been very tender since the death of our dear friend
and brother, Ezra Taft Benson. We love him very much and will miss his
company and sweet counsel. I have felt his loss in a particularly personal
way in light of the new responsibility that has come to me since his
passing. I have shed many tears and have sought my Father in Heaven in
earnest prayer with a desire to be equal to the high and holy calling which
is now mine."... 

     "To the membership of the Church in every country of the world and to
people everywhere, I extend my love."... 

     "There are two invitations I would like to leave with the members of
the Church as we strive to keep the commandments of God and receive the
full measure of His blessings. First of all, I would invite all members of
the Church to live with ever-more attention to the life and example of the
Lord Jesus Christ, especially the love and hope and compassion he
displayed."... 

     "I pray that we might treat each other with more kindness, more
courtesy, more humility and patience and forgiveness. We do have high
expectations of one another, and all can improve. Our world cries out for
more disciplined living of the commandments of God. But the way we are to
encourage that, as the Lord told the Prophet Joseph in the wintry depths of
Liberty Jail, is 'by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and
meekness, and by love unfeigned;...without hypocrisy and without
guile.'"... 

     [What the second invitation is is not specifically clear, but I
believe it is stated in the following.] 

     "Let us be a temple-attending and temple-loving people. Let us hasten
to the temple as frequently as time and means and personal circumstances
allow. Let us go not only for our kindred dead, but let us also go for the
personal blessing of temple worship, for the sanctity and safety which is
provided within those hallowed and consecrated walls. The temple is a place
of revelation, it is a place of peace. It is the house of the Lord. It is
holy unto the Lord. It should be holy unto us..." 

re:      <<< Note 453.12 by NWD002::OSSLER_KE "Soccus Carminium Admirari" >>>
                                 -< Excerpts >-

>     "Elder Boyd K. Packer, who has been a member of the Quorum of the
>Twelve Apostles for the past 24 years, became acting president of the
>Twelve because the Quorum's senior member, Hinckley, will [be in the First
>Presidency]." 

	Ah, this is what I wanted to see.  I have no problems with it at all;
	I just wanted to see something in hardcopy.  Thanks for posting this.

	It makes all the sense in the world as those two have effectively
	been running the church (note I said running and not leading).

	I look forward to Elder Packer as acting president of the twelve.
	He has given talks that have helped me understand church doctrine
	much better.  I like his no-nonsense approach to the talks he gives.

    We had a discussion at the dinner table last night about the ascendency
    of Apostles towards the First Presidency.  Does one "progress" towards
    the President of the Quroum according to longevity in the calling? 
    And, then when you become President of the Quorum, the next step is
    President of the Church?
    
    Kind of sounds like a "career path"?
    
    When I served on the High Council, as the junior/newest called member I
    sat at the end of the table and then moved up in "seniority" as the men in
    front of me were released.  However, at the Stake level, you don't
    automatically graduate into the postion of Stake President, or even
    Consellor in the Stake Presidency.  Those calls come from inspiration,
    not "time in rank".
    
    When I first joined the Church, I had the idea that the Prophet could
    be called from anywhere, but with years I have seen an accepted pattern
    of ascendency/progression towards the First Presidency. Is this pattern
    a revelation or historical practice?  I have heard it said that the
    Prophet will ALWAYS come from the President of the Quroum of 12.  I can
    see the wisdom of having apostles spend years in that calling, so that
    when and if they become prophet they are well seasoned.
    
    Paul
    Paul

re:                     <<< Note 453.14 by MR4DEC::RONDINA >>>
                     -< Ascendency towards being Prophet >-

>   Is this pattern a revelation or historical practice?  
>   I have heard it said that the Prophet will ALWAYS come from the 
>   President of the Quroum of 12.  

	This was established by the Lord at Joseph Smith's death when 
	Brigham Young (as president of the twelve) was overshadowed by
	the mantel of the prophet.  Stewardship and calling come in here.
	The collective stewardship authority of the twelve (it is always
	referred to as the twelve even though there are really fifteen
	apostles when full) are placed upon one man - the prophet.  This
	is the reverse of when the church was restored.  Joseph Smith was
	the only one to hold all the keys and authority.  He was greatly 
	relieved after the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles was established,
	and this is documented in the church history.  

	The Lord has established practices and procedures so that the restored
	church will not lose the authority and priesthood as did that which 
	was first established in Christ's time.  I think most is recorded in
	D&C 107.
	

    As to ascending to Prophet ...  I figure that the caliber of person at
    that level is, as a rule, very high nowadays.  Note also that as the
    Church has matured, responsibilities have been pushed down the chain so
    that the practical running of the Church tends to happen more at the 
    Stake and Ward levels.  Thus, as far as I can tell, it really doesn't 
    matter so much which one gets picked as Prophet from the Twelve or 
    even from the Seventy.  So, if there is a rotation it's no big deal 
    to me.  Lots of acceptable choices for the Lord. 
    
    Having served in some of the relatively "higher" leadership positions,
    I can testify that there's not really that much "glory" to be had. 
    It's just ...  different.  As was mentioned in Church here last Sunday 
    from the pulpit, it's pretty rare for a Counselor in the Bishopric to 
    aspire to become Bishop.  I know that to be true from my experience. 
    Similarly, it's pretty rare for a member of the High Council to aspire
    to become Stake President.  When in these positions, it's very apparent
    what kind of load is put on the Bishop or President even though the
    load tends to be spread around.  Lots of spiritual moments, to be sure. 
    But, there's a lot of stress, time commitment, emotional commitment and 
    it wears on you and your family.  Many/most of the couselors I served
    with aspired to be Sunday School teachers.  I would not be surprised to
    discover similar sentiments at higher levels of Church management.  Not
    that anybody is griping or rebelling.  Just that, in the Church,
    although it is set up as a hierarchy, each job is important and
    being boastful about your calling or aspiring for a "higher" calling
    seems pretty much passe.
    
    Steve 

    amen!