Conference tecrus::mormonism

>	At the church's October general conference, Mormon apostle Boyd K.
>Packer warned members at a meeting broadcast to Mormon chapels around
>the world about following survivalist teachings.
>	``Do not be deceived,'' he said, by those ``who have not been
>regularly ordained by the heads of the church, who tell of impending
>political and economic chaos, the end of the world -- something of 'the
>sky is falling.'...They are misleading members to gather to colonies or
>cults.''

I don't get this. We all agree that there is going to be a Second Coming, right?
The Scriptures and the prophets are quite clear about the catastrophies that 
will occur prior to the Second Coming. The Scriptures and the prophets are also 
quite clear about "those who are prepared" as opposed to "those who are not 
prepared," 

I'm no Gritz supporter, but I'm certainly working as quickly as I can to get
my food storage set up. Is that a "preoccupation with armageddon?"

Bryan

    When I first heard about food storage I figured it was so that when IT
    happened (whatever IT was -- 2nd Coming, nuclear war, Democrats
    controlling both the ...  oops, I digress) my family could lock itself
    up ("separate itself from the World") and survive until our home
    teachers knocked on our door to give us the all clear (and the message
    that it was time to head to Independence). 
    
    Since that time, it has been made clear to me that should IT happen,
    I would likely be getting a call from my Bishop asking me to bring what
    supplies I had and to make them available to all who were or would be
    in need.  Further, while "being prepared" is a virtue, "hoarding" is
    not.  The difference has to do with being selfish versus being a good
    neighbor.
    
    The gist of what I'm hearing is that some members are stepping over the
    line of being good neighbors to being selfish -- forgetting that we are
    all God's children and that when IT happens there won't be any totally 
    "safe" places, according to the Scriptures.  So, "hoarding" and
    withdrawing from society (a bit uncharactersitic of God's
    missionary-oriented church) actually become a form of rebellion.  At
    least, that's my take on it.
    
    I suppose that similar events occurred in Book of Mormon times before
    the First Coming.  In the book, we even learn of a time that the wicked
    have set as a date for when the good will be put to death unless the
    Savior comes.  Comparing that to our times, I suppose that what we
    don't hear much about are all the folks who, in an uninspired fashion, 
    cried "lo here" and "lo there" concerning the coming of the Savior.
    
    I suppose that the wicked may have (justifiably) gotten so fed up with
    this that eventually they had become hardened to talk of the First
    Coming.  When IT came for real, they were ill-prepared to say the
    least and were less than tolerant of those true to the faith.  The
    Adversary surely had a big chuckle over that one ...
    
    Steve

>	Those interviewed by the newspaper said they had faced church
>sanctions for having too much emergency food in storage and for adhering
>to the doomsday prediction of popular Mormon presidential candidate
>James ``Bo'' Gritz.
>	The paper says Gritz had personally been warned that his teachings
>about global conspiracies, impending government collapse and the Second
>Coming are out of line with mainstream Mormon teachings.

	I do not believe there is any way a church member will face 
	sanctions for having too much emergency food in storage.

	Taking the predictions of some "crackpot" and incorporating that
	into the food storage concepts - that could.

	Its really very simple - either Christ is the head of this church 
	and directs it through a living prophet, or this is just another
	secular church.  I would not want to follow another Jim Jones.

	To accumulate a full year's worth of food and emergency supplies
	is, after all, only a spiritual commandment.  It really has nothing
	to do with our temporal welfare.  Oh, some people may use it, but in
	some nations of the world, food storage is illegal.  Does that mean
	the members there lose out?  No.  It just means that it should be
	followed as the spirit directs each household; just like all the
	other things the church would like us to do.

	Read very carefully what Elder Boyd K. Packer said, and then apply
	the scriptures to it.  He said nothing more than what has already
	been given us.  Gritz is not the prophet, Elder Benson is.

	Charles

    Sorry about the late arrival of this reply - I just joined this
    conference last weekend.
    
    Just before I moved from Layton, Utah to Atlanta, I worked with a
    fellow who had a bunch of these "doomsdayers" in his ward.  It started
    out as a "study group" to study the 2nd coming.  In a very short time,
    they became radical. Most refused to plant grass in their new yards
    because the end of the world would happen before it could grow.  
    
    But it gets worse - parents refused to have children, some refused to
    go on missions, etc. due to the impending end of the world.  They were 
    storing guns, hoarding (different from storing) food - it was scary.
    One of these people worked with us and very pointedly tried to get a
    receptionist to withdraw from her mission call to Thailand because
    "there would be nothing here when you get back".  He really pestered
    her to quit. She left in Oct. 1991.
    
    I think that is what the Church is talking about - not food storage,
    but being radical.  It's one thing to be prepared and wait for these
    things to happen - it's quite another to facilitate it.
    
    In this ward, these people were called to repentence - a few did, but
    most were ex'd - including the Bishop!  
    
    In the rumor catagory, my brother said he heard they got hold of keys
    and were holding meetings in the Manti Temple - temple clothes and all!
    
    Well, that ought to stir the pot a bit.  Just remember - follow THE
    prophet and THE leaders of the Church and exercise Moderation in all
    things.
    
    
    -Gary Olsen
    Atlanta CSC

    In the 1950 and 1960 era Americans were busily building bomb shelters
    and preparing for nuclear war with Russia. Reading these notes about
    the doomsdayers in the West reminds me of how times have changed!
    
    Seriously, though, when I first joined the Church I immediately bumped
    up against a few members whose views seemed reactionary.  Every ward
    has them.  In our ward we had people distibuting information on how
    President Bush was going to call off the national elections due to some
    recent War Powers he held. They zeal and alarm was sincere, but
    misplaced.
    
    Remember the frenzy of the 1970's with the books The Naked Capitalist
    and the Naked Communist by Skousen? I met survivalists in my ward in
    Springville (8 miles south of Provo), who had bought land and built
    underground bunkers in the remote canyons.
    
    Living here in the East where I don't get exposed to much of that
    frenzy that sweeps Utah, I often wonder if these movements in Utah
    society are the product of their being somewhat isolated and of their
    being too much similarity (I am told by recent transplants from Utah 
    that valuing diversity is not a strength of that culture.), perhaps as
    a result of 100+ years of in-breeding. Or, is it just that living in
    the east has jaded (corrupted) my view and interpretation of the events
    that are going on nationally and internationally.
    
    I look at the whole anxiety about food storage and wonder if I am
    remiss in not being more proactive about it.  Or is it indeed just
    a quirk of life in Utah, a desert state that is reclaimed land and
    thus subject to climatic conditions.
    
    Paul
    strength of someparts of the West)

	Well, here we are at the end of the world, and so many people are
	scared out of their wits.  Lo here, and lo there.  What exactly are
	we to do?  No where can I find where the scriptures instruct us to
	store (hoard) food and hide in a hole in the ground!  We are to be
	a light unto the world, a beacon in the dark, and that can only be 
	done by living the gospel the best we can with whatever light and
	knowledge the Lord has seen fit to give us.  It seems to me that
	those who blindly follow bishops or other church leaders down the
	wrong path should back off and follow the council given in this
	last dispensation.  Some that I feel I am capable of doing are :

		1. read the scriptures
		2. study the Book of Mormon
		3. have personal and family prayer
		4. teach my family through family home evening
		5. attend all my meetings and partake of the sacrament
		6. attend the temple regularly

	We are to make righteous judgement in leading our lives in the world.
	To be in the world but not of the world.  Only by knowing what God
	views as righteous can we succeed, because we are tested and tried 
	every day.  Our attitude determines how we will react (or act?) to
	the test given.  We are bombarded through the printed and spoken word
	as to what the world views as acceptable, but only by our own righteous
	judgement can we empower ourselves to reject the evil barbs of the 
	devil.  It is good to know about the second coming so we can prepare
	and understand what is happening.  Otherwise, we will be scattered as 
	chafe on the wind.

	Charles

    From what I have been hearing lately, the U.S. came VERY close to
    nuclear disaster in the early 60's.  Building bomb shelters was not a
    bad idea at the time.  Only recently has the nuclear threat abated a
    bit.
    
    I think we are in store for some really awful times ahead.  BUT, from
    what I understand from what we have been told, it will also be a great
    and exciting time of opportunity, especially with regard to spreading
    the Gospel.  Today is a time to get out and about and to work with
    people.  Not cower and hide in anticipation of doom.  Besides, don't
    the Scriptures tell us that there won't be any safe place.  
    
    I agree.  It's prudent to shore up for hard times, but foolish to 
    hoard.  I've always felt that if "the big one" were to hit, my family
    won't be hiding in a bunker from our neighbors.  We'll be trying to
    pool resources with them, share and rebuild.
    
    Steve

    Most have probably moved on from this note, but I only get a chance to
    get in here occasionally, so sorry this reply is so late, but I
    read this long ago, and this topic reminded me of it. - dan:
    
    	Fanaticism is the devil's substitute for and perversion of true zeal. 
    It is exhibited in wildly extravagant and overzealous views and acts. 
    It is based either on unreasoning devotion to a cause, a devotion which
    closes the door to investigation and dispassionate study, or on an over
    emphasis of some particular doctrine or practice, an emphasis which
    twists the truth as a whole out of perspective.
    	Through the ages religious fanatics have fought and died on the
    field of battle in false causes; in the Church there are those who
    became fanatics on such things as the Word of Wisdom, even to the point
    that they teach against the use of white bread, white flour, refined
    sugar, chocolate, and sometimes even milk, eggs and cheese.  Stable and
    sound persons are never fanatics; they do not ride gospel hobbies.
    
    (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce. R. McConkie)
                                                               

    Nice quote!  Thanks!
    
    Steve

    I have discovered a TV show that deals exclusively with signs of the
    times.  I was wondering what other LDS think of it.  
    
    It is the Jack Van Impe (pronounced "vanippee") show which he and his
    wife, Rexella, recount news articles in recognizable news papers,
    magazines (with pictures) and how these happenings are fulfilling
    Biblical propheies.  It is facscinating in that he pulls together Old
    and New Testament scriptures and comments on them.
    
    His big these is that the EC (European Council ?) is the fulfillment of
    the Daniel and Revelation's Prophecy of the beat with 10 horns, etc.
    
    Unlike TV evangelists, he does not "preach", but comments on current
    events around the world. At the end of the show he does make a very
    short plea for people to "confess Jesus".
    
    It is on TV at 11:30pm- midnight channel 28 in the Boston area on
    Sundays. Does anyone else watch it and what do you think?
    
    Paul
    
    PS He is Pre-tibutlationist Rapture devotee and thinks that Christ's
    coming is within the next 10-12 years (somewhere around 2002). The
    major milestone happened in Jan 1993 with some big final consolidation
    of the EC, says he.  And somewhere soon a major, world leader will
    emerge from the EC, who will forge peace between Israel and the Arab
    world.  Watch out for this leader is the anti-christ of revelations.

    Dunno about the fellow.  Is it channel 28 or 38?  I've never seen
    anything on channel 28 before ...  As for the EC, I dunno about that,
    either.  From what I've been hearing it is not nearly as "unified" as
    folks hoped it would be.  But, hey, I'm always seeking good signs
    here and there ... ;^)
    
    Steve