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Conference tecrus::mormonism

Title:The Glory of God is Intelligence.
Moderator:BSS::RONEY
Created:Thu Jan 28 1988
Last Modified:Fri Apr 25 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:460
Total number of notes:6198

371.0. "The Three Wise Men" by SMURF::SOUSA () Wed Jan 09 1991 16:09

    Last night, I was showing my husband the photos taken of
    beautiful paintings done by a Dutch artist which appear in
    the January Ensign. They relate to the life of Christ.  I
    also showed him the little messages beside each photo 
    explaining what each print was.  After he looked at the
    one of the Three Wise Men, he made an unusual comment.
    (Understand here that he is an inactive member and was only
    in the Church 2 years and was not very active.  He was a
    non-practicing Catholic all of his life).  Anyway, he said:
    "You know, *they say* that it's just a myth that the Three
    Wise Men were led by a star and there is no proof or truth
    to it".  I really didn't know what to say other than the
    fact that I told him that he should be careful who *they*
    are and where he gets his information.  I asked him if he
    had seen this in a newspaper, magazine or on TV.  He refused
    to answer me and skirted the issue by saying he forgot where
    he had heard it.  I almost felt he was setting me up for
    contention, but then I wondered what the truth to this story
    is.  I told him I really didn't know much about the Wise Men,
    other than what I'd read in Luke 2.  I then got out my Mormon
    Doctirine Book and it referred me to look under Magi.  I was 
    sort of confused on the short statement that McConkie made about
    the Wise Men.  
    
    Can anyone out there clear this up for me or lead me to where I
    can find our more about the Wise Men? 
    
    Thanks
    Penny Sousa
    Digital - Nashua, NH
    SMURF::SOUSA
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
371.1Try Jesus_The_ChristCSC32::S_JOHNSONLearn to Read:Call 1-800-READNOWWed Jan 09 1991 18:066
    Hi Penny,
    
    I don't have it with me, but I think James E. Talmedge says something
    about this in _Jesus_The_Christ_.  Check it out and see what he says.
    
    scott
371.2QBUS::F_MUELLERWed Jan 09 1991 19:0411
    Hi Penny,

    On Christmas day it is a family tradition to read from the scriptures,
    both N.T. and BoM, about the birth of our Savior. You may want to look
    at 3 Nephi 1:8-22, especially verse 22. I know that this is not exactly
    what you are looking for, but it helps show how much the Book of Mormon
    relates to the Bible. Good luck in your search.

    Take care,
    Frank M.
371.3From Matthew...SUOSW4::WILLOUGHBYFRANKly speaking Thu Jan 10 1991 06:4997
Hi Penny,

Here's what I have been able to dig up:

1)  It is a myth that there were 3 wise men.  It states in Matthew 2:1-9
    that there were wise men, but it doesn't mention how many.  I don't know 
    where the number 3 came from.

2)  It is also a myth that the 3 wise men visited the Christ-child at the 
    manger.  There is no evidence to support this.  More than likely they 
    visited him when he was a little older (probably when he was two or less).
    In Matthew 2:It mentions that they visited him at his house (not a manger). 

3)  I don't know if he is looking for an answer from the bible or from the
    scientific community.  If it is from the bible, then the reference to 
    the star is in Matthew 2:2,9-10.  If he is looking for "proof" from 
    astronomers on the subject, he may have to do a little digging.  From
    what I saw on TV a while back, it is known that there was a supernova
    around the time of Christ's birth.  Whether this is the same star that
    the wise men were referring to, I don't know.

    A copy of Matthew Chapter 2 follows on the the next page.

Best Regards,

Frank


			Matthew   Chapter 2

     1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days
     of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east
     to Jerusalem.
     2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for  we
     have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
     3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he  was  trou-
     bled, and all Jerusalem with him.
     4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes
     of  the  people  together,  he demanded of them where Christ
     should be born.
     5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea;  for  thus
     it is written by the prophet.
     6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least
     among  the  princes  of  Juda;  for out of thee shall come a
     Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
     7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise  men,  en-
     quired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
     8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search di-
     ligently  for  thy  young child; and when ye have found him,
     bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
     9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo,  the
     star,  which they saw in the east, went before them, till it
     came and stood over where the young child was.
     10 When they saw the  star,  they  rejoiced  with  exceeding
     great joy.
     11 And when they were come into  the  house,  they  saw  the
     young  child  with  Mary  his  mother,  and  fell  down, and
     worshipped him; and when they had  opened  their  treasures,
     they  presented  unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and
     myrrh.
     12 And being warned of God in a dream that they  should  not
     return to Herod, they departed into their own country anoth-
     er way.
     13 And when they were departed, behold,  the  angel  of  the
     Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take
     the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and  be
     thou  there until I bring thee word; for Herod will seek the
     young child to destroy him.
     14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother  by
     night, and departed into Egypt:
     15 And was there until the death of Herod; that it might  be
     fulfilled  which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, say-
     ing, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
     16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked  of  the  wise
     men,  was  exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the
     children that were in  Bethlehem,  and  in  all  the  coasts
     thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time
     which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
     17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken  by  Jeremy  the
     prophet, saying,
     18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation,  and  weep-
     ing,  and  great  mourning, Rachel weeping for her children,
     and would not be comforted, because they are not.
     19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord ap-
     peareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
     20 Saying, Arise, and take thy young child and  his  mother,
     and  go  into  the  land  of Israel; for they are dead which
     sought the young child's life.
     21 And he arose, and took the young child  and  his  mother,
     and came into the land of Israel.
     22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in  Judaea  in
     the  room  of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither;
     notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream,  he  turned
     aside into the parts of Galilee:
     23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth; that  it
     might  be  fulfilled  which  was  spoken by the prophets, He
     shall be called a Nazarene.
371.4Some more info...RIPPLE::MORRIS_RARandy Morris, SMARTS ProjectThu Jan 10 1991 13:2635
Penny,

Here's some additional info (see .3):

�� 1)  It is a myth that there were 3 wise men.  It states in Matthew 2:1-9
��     that there were wise men, but it doesn't mention how many.  I don't know 
��     where the number 3 came from.

       The number of wise men myth is probably a guess from the number
       of gifts given: gold, frankincence, and myrrh (See Matthew 2:11). 
       The number of wise men is never mentioned.

�� 3)  I don't know if he is looking for an answer from the bible or from the
��     scientific community.  If it is from the bible, then the reference to 
��     the star is in Matthew 2:2,9-10.  If he is looking for "proof" from 
��     astronomers on the subject, he may have to do a little digging.  From
��     what I saw on TV a while back, it is known that there was a supernova
��     around the time of Christ's birth.  Whether this is the same star that
��     the wise men were referring to, I don't know.

       When I took astronomy in college (~1980) I seem to remember the
       following (I don't have my notes with me, so this is all from
       memory).  There was a triple-conjunction (alignment of three
       planets within � second of arc) in the year 4 BC.  A triple
       conjunction is a very rare event (it happened again in 1980).  I
       believe the planets were mars, jupiter, and neptune (three of the
       brightest objects in the sky).  One of the planets (I don't
       remember which) was known as the 'Star of David'.  The
       conjunction appeared in a constellation (again, I don't remember
       which) known as the 'House of David'.  This would have been a
       pretty significant sign.

       I hope all of this helps, and I'll try to fill in the missing
       info as soon as possible.
					Randy Morris
371.5CACHE::LEIGHLet your light shineThu Jan 10 1991 14:018
People with no religious belief would say the Biblical story of the star
was the triple-conjunction which is a natural occurrence and hence proves that
there is no God and that the Bible is only myth.  That attitude results from
the so-called "orthodox" Christian belief that God created the earth from
nothing and that miracles do not follow natural laws.  However, because of the
Doctrine and Covenants, we know that God does work through natural law, and the
use of a triple-conjunction to guide people to the baby is a reasonable
explanation of the star.