Conference tecrus::mormonism

	RE: <<< Note 370.0 by COMET::WOOLF "Ken Woolf" >>>

>    	I have a question that some of you might be able to help me out
>    with. Church policy states that if a woman has lost her husband thru
>    death, she cannot be sealed in the Temple to another man.    

	It would seem to me that this would be the case only when the woman 
	has previously been married in the temple (or sealed, whatever the 
	case may be).  If she has never been married in the temple, then 
	she is under no obligation to the deceased husband.

>    	So my questions are, What incentive does a man have to marry a
>    woman who has lost her husband thru death. And why, other than
>    companionship in this life would a woman want to marry another man.

	Man (male and female) were not meant to be alone.  Companionship
	is a very good reason to have a marriage for time only.  I have
	seen it a number of times, and the couples were very happy.

>    This policy seems to be unfair to both men and women and I wonder if
>    any of you reading this note file has had experience with this
>    situation or have knowledge of how people in the past have dealt with
>    it.

	It is only unfair as far as we misunderstand the Lord's plan of
	salvation.  Don't limit your experiences to this mortal life.

>    	I know a woman who is in this situation and am trying to decide if
>    it would be wise for us to continue dating.
    
	You have not really given me a clear understanding of your womans
	situation.  Even if she has been previously married (or sealed) to
	her deceased husband, what does that really have to do with it.
	You two can still have a very happy and successful marriage for
	time only, and still experience the lessons of this life that 
	are necessary for you.  It does not mean that you will be denied
	your wives of exaltation.

    RE: Note 370.1
    I thought some things were somewhat obvious but I guess not.
    
    The woman was sealed to her husband in the Temple.
    
    I understand the importance of companionship and it is somthing I want.
    
    My questions are an effort to gain a better understanding of the Lord`s
    plan of salvation. This is a new area for me and the questions are very
    emotional ones for me and the woman I am dating. 
    
    Could you clarify what you mean by "Don`t limit your experiences to
    this mortal life." I will probably still be alive tomorrow and that
    means my experiences will still be mortal ones.
    
    I don`t know how to make the woman`s situation clearer. She was sealed
    to her deceased husband and I will try to clarify what that has to do
    with it. I understand what my marriage can be in this life and the
    happiness it can be for the both of us. That is exactly the point. 
    I am not sure I am willing to build a celestial relationship with
    someone only to have it denied to me because she was sealed to another
    man. I know there are benifits I can gain from being married to her in
    this life. I expect to put a lot of work in my relationship, not only
    for the purpose of having an intimate relationship of love and
    companionship in this life but also expect it to continue in the next
    life. I really don`t care about having wives of exaltation, as you put
    it. I am thinking in terms of mortality and having more than one wife
    doesn`t appeal to me in the least.
    	And for her, what if our relationship becomes more than what she
    had with her husband ? Since she can only be sealed to one man, will
    she be denied the opportunity to stay in the relationship that has
    provided the most growth for her? Or does she have a choice? From what
    I know of the doctrine she does not have the choice.
    
    	So what that does is to put both of us in a bind. I am saying maybe
    because of the doctrine, I should not pursue women that have lost their
    husband thru death, since I will not be able to continue the
    relationship we have built together in this life.
    	And she is saying I probably shouldn`t date because I have already
    been sealed. But yet I want companionship while I am still on this
    earth. And I love my deceased husband and the children that were
    brought into this world from that union. And since I am not willing to
    obtain a temple divorce even if I could, maybe the best thing is just
    to remain single.
    
    This is a very sensitive subject for me at present and even though it
    may seem simple to those of you who reply, it is not for me. I am asking
    for your understanding and your sensitivity to my feelings as you make
    your comments.

Hi Ken,

Your situation is very sensitive and delicate, and I don't know if any of
us understand very well how God will judge things in the final day. 

One thing you need to keep in mind is that the woman you are dating is already
married as far as the eternities are concerned (not as far as mortality is
concerned, of course); I'm assuming that she and her husband remain true to
their covenants such that their Temple sealing will in fact be sealed by the
Holy Spirit of Promise.  Thus, as far as we understand things, she isn't an
eligible candidate for your eternal companion.  From your viewpoint, this
situation isn't very different than if you were dating a non-member, a
woman who also is not a candidate (assuming she would never join the Church)
for your eternal companion.  This sounds harsh, but that seems to be the way
it is, at least within the context of current Church policy; however, as my
comments below indicate, this is a "gray" area that may not have clear
answers.

You brought up an important question: should the woman you are dating resign
herself to being single during this life, even though she may desire and
need the companionship of a husband?  The answer is "no".  She can remarry
for time-only and find and have that companionship.  However, she can't
remarry for time and eternity unless she has a Temple divorce first, and that
implies some things about her deceased husband that probably aren't true.
Hopefully, she still has the love and commitment for her husband that she had
on her wedding day, and hopefully the spirit of her Temple wedding is still
active with her, such that she is looking forward to reuniting with him for
the eternities; in a way, his death is as if he has gone on a mission, and at
the end of that mission (her death) they will be reunited again, much as
missionaries are reunited with their families after the two years.  In the
meantime, she can marry for time-only and find the love and companionship
and strength that she needs.  If that happens, I would expect that after her
death and the death of her second husband, her first husband will thank the
second one for taking care of and strengthening his wife while he was gone.  At
least, if he (the first one) is worthy of exaltation, I would expect that he
would have that type of gratitude and charity for the second one.  My mother
remarried for time-only a few years after my dad died, and my sisters and I
all supported her in that.  She was having a hard time handling being alone,
and she needed companionship and love that my sisters and I couldn't give
because we were all in distant places.  We are grateful that "Uncle Bill"
helped mom to have a few years of enjoyment that she wouldn't have had while
alone, and I'm sure that dad is grateful too.

You also brought up the question of how much choice does the woman you are
dating have about her eternal companion.  That is, she loved her husband 
during their time together, but he is gone.  Suppose she falls in love with
another man and they are married for time-only.  Suppose on the judgment
day she realizes she loves the second man more than the first (I think this
is a likely situation that could and probably will happen to many people).
Will she have any choice in the matter?  Or, will she automatically have to
acknowledge the Temple sealing with her first husband and that is the end of
the matter?  I don't think any of us understand how God will judge that
situation, and I hope that no one would be dogmatic in saying what would
happen.  About all we can do is have faith that God will be fair, just,
and merciful, and that what ever does happen will be for the best.

My own opinion (and its nothing more than that) is that the Temple sealing
would not automatically take effect.  I have this opinion for the following
reason.  I believe that the only people who will have their marriages sealed
by the Holy Spirit of Promise will be those who are fully and completely
worthy of exaltation, and I believe that this implies a strong commitment
of love and trust between the man and woman.  In the hypothetical situation
we're  discussing, that commitment of love and trust has melted, and I believe
the Temple sealing would not become permanent.  We need to keep in mind that
the ceremony in the Temple is only a promise of what can happen; it is not a
statement of what has happened.

A remarriage does not have to be involved for a commitment of love to
disappear.  The woman (or man) could remain single during mortality and realize
at the time of judgment that she did not have eternal love for her husband.
I think these are very real situations that will likely happen, and we have
faith that God will do the right thing.  In the meantime, the Church formulates
policies about Temple marriages, Temple divorces, etc. so we will have
guidance in these matters.  These policies aren't necessarily the final word
in the matter, but it would be very dangerous for us to assume that the
policies will be changed in some way that we deem desirable.

I guess, Ken, that you and your friend have need of a lot of sincere fasting
and prayer and willingness to obey God such that you can be directed through
the Holy Spirit (I'm not implying that the two of you haven't been doing
that).  We noters can give you our thoughts, but the important thing is what
does God want the two of you to do?

In addition, it would be appropriate, if you haven't already done so, to visit
with your Bishop about this, keeping in mind that he too is human and doesn't
have all the answers but does have inspiration that we don't have.

May the Lord bless you and your friend!

Allen

    Hi Ken,
    
    Thank you for sharing your problem with us.  I agree with what has been
    said so far.  Allen explained what he feels would happen regarding your 
    friend.  From what I understand (somebody please correct me if I am
    wrong), what you will happen to you will probably be the following:
    
    If you both marry, it will be for time only.  At the time of the death
    of either of you, the marriage will dissolve.  She, upon her death, will
    re-join her first husband (to whom she was sealed).  As I understand it, 
    you will still have the opportunity to marry and be sealed for time and 
    eternity.  A mate will be chosen for you by our Heavenly Father (who is 
    perfect and knows us better than we know ourselves).  The marriage for 
    time and eternity will probably take place during the millenium (unless 
    the name of your mate has been revealed before then and the appropriate 
    temple work has been performed).  I believe that your mate will also 
    thank your friend for the love and support she has given to you during 
    your mortal existence.  I also believe that you and your mate will both 
    be very happy and will love each other for time and eternity. 
    
    I hope that I was of some help with your problem.  In any case, pray
    and fast about your situation and let the Spirit guide you in your 
    decision.
    
    May God bless you both.
    
    Best Regards,
    
    Frank

Just a nit on Frank's comment.

>    A mate will be chosen for you by our Heavenly Father (who is 
>    perfect and knows us better than we know ourselves).

We don't know whether people who are worthy of eternal marriage but die
without it will have their mate chosen for them by Heavenly Father, or 
whether they will have courtship and choice via their free agency as spirits.
Since the Gospel stresses freedom of choice so much, I tend to think it would
be the latter, but this is pure speculation of course.

Allen

    Frank, I appreciate your comments and would like to share some of my
    feelings about what you said. I think Allen`s nit is more in line of how
    I am thinking. It just doesn`t feel good to me that after I have spent
    the time to develope a celestial relationship with a woman who has
    already been sealed, that it will all end by her husband comming into
    the picture and saying thank you for taking care of my wife. And
    because of your relationship she has grown in all aspects of her life.
    Something she would have never had with me, but since I am sealed to
    her I get all the benifits of your growth together.
    	Another thing for you to understand is that I have been sealed in
    the temple. I divorced my wife several years ago but we still have the
    temple sealing. So how do I feel about all this. I do not feel that my
    "X" and I ever had enough love to warrant a celestial marriage and I
    want someone in my life now that I can build that type of relationship
    with. I have learned a great deal about myself and what is important in
    a relationship since my divorce. Things that I didn`t know before. So
    all I can do is build on what I know now. If I marry a woman and
    develope a celestial type relationship, then I would have no desire to
    be with my "X" even though we still have a temple sealing.
    
    	Which brings up another question, what would my five children feel
    when they find out that I would rather be in the eternities with
    another woman. The only thing I can offer is what I have been told as a
    result of my divorce. My "X" remarried a nonmember and is not very
    active in the chruch. I talked to a man in the Temple one day about
    this situation and what will happen to the children. In short, I was
    told that God will have to make many of those decisions. And children
    are not ours. We have been given stewardship over them but they are
    Gods children. A plan has been laid out for all of us and if that plan
    is followed it is pertty straight forward. When it comes to death,
    divorce, and some of the things that presently go on in a marriage, it
    is not always so straight forward.
    
    	As I have been typing this I received a call from the Denver Temple
    president. I have wanted to get as much info as possible so he returned
    my call. I will try to relate to you what he had to say. He indicated
    that the Temple sealing does not guarantee anything. It does open the
    door for the possibility of an eternal family. We cannot feel that we
    have it made though. 
     	Based on what the Temple President, Roger Pugmeyer, has told me I
    have drawn the following conclusions: 
    	Things can happen that will prevent the sealing from being in effect. 
    For example I divorced my wife and since we are not growing together as a 
    couple, I doubt if my sealing will be in force after my death even though 
    I have not had it cancelled. I would also speculate that some couples even 
    though they have not had a divorce will find that there sealing to be 
    invalid in the next life. Mainly because they or one party did not live 
    according to Gospel principles. Since my divorce I have come to the 
    understanding that a marriage in the Temple or anywhere else for that 
    matter, is the most important thing in my life. I see so many people take 
    their relationship lightly and I feel that they are going to have a big
    surprise when they find out that because of how they lived, their sealing 
    is no longer valid.
    
    One more thing that Pres Pugmeyer told me that I was unaware of is that
    in Dec. of 1988 the first presidency has indicated that after a woman
    has died she can have as many men sealed to her as she desires. If she
    was married to seven men in this life she can be sealed to all of them
    after she dies. The work will have to be done by proxy.  
    This seems to indicate that the woman will have a choice about who she
    will be sealed to.
    
    Which brings up another question for you Allen. Since your mother was
    in this situation, how do you feel about the possibility of your mother
    choosing to be sealed to another man other than your father. I have
    five children and I am concerned about their feeling as I also am about
    the woman I am dating and how her children would feel if we should
    choose to marry.
    
    Ken 

Ken,

I wasn't aware of the 1988 change in policy.  Thanks for informing us about
that.  One comment for the non-LDS following this discussion.  That fact that
a woman can be sealed to several men does not mean that she will have several
husbands in the next life.  It just means that the sealing as an earthly
ordinance has been done, and the Lord will decide in some way which husband
(if any) she will have.

>    Which brings up another question for you Allen. Since your mother was
>    in this situation, how do you feel about the possibility of your mother
>    choosing to be sealed to another man other than your father.

I'm very big on freedom of choice, Ken, and if my mother were to decide to
be sealed to another husband, that would be fine with me--its her decision
not mine.  I have no desires to live her life for her.  My mother died a
couple of years ago, so your question doesn't apply to her, but let's direct
your question to me.  Suppose I were to die and my wife remarried and choose
to be sealed (per the 1988 policy change) to her new husband; how would I
feel?  The same as I would feel with my mother.  One thing we need to keep
in mind, Ken, is that the only people who will actually be eternal families
are those who are exalted, and exalted people are not jealous or selfish--they
have the perfect, pure love of of Christ for all.  If I were to be upset
with my wife then I wouldn't be worthy of exaltation and wouldn't be
her eternal husband anyway.  I think we tend to think of the Temple
ceremonies as the "end".  Instead, they are necessary but a very minor
part of the plan of salvation.  Those who end up being eternal families will
have to have Temple marriages, but more importantly, they will have to have
become exalted, not just the Celestial kingdom, but exalted, and exalted
people have become perfect--no hatred, no selfishness, no jealousy.

>    five children and I am concerned about their feeling as I also am about
>    the woman I am dating and how her children would feel if we should
>    choose to marry.
    
This could be a real problem, especially if the children are young.  

Allen

    Ken,
    I was hoping to help and just passed on what I had heard once regarding
    this subject.  To be honest, I never really gave the idea much thought.  
    
    It took me a while to get married (29) and a couple of more years more 
    for my wife to join the church.  We were sealed in the temple last year.
    Now, I'm working on the hard part of living the Gospel to the best
    of my ability.  I haven't really sat down and figured out the what-ifs.
    
    After thinking about what Allen said (in his reply to my note), I have 
    to agree with him.  It fits into my picture of my perception of our 
    Heavenly Father and His Plan of Salvation.  (Thanks for your comments, 
    Allen.  As usual, your thoughts are thought-provoking, spiritually
    uplifting and an eye-opener.  (It sounds trite, but I really mean it).
    
    Ken, your problem is a complicated one and will require a lot of soul-
    searching, prayer, and fasting.  Thank you for sharing your problem 
    with us.  If I run across anything on the subject, I will give you a
    holler.
    
    Best Regards,
    
    Frank

> We don't know whether people who are worthy of eternal marriage but die
> without it will have their mate chosen for them by Heavenly Father, or 
> whether they will have courtship and choice via their free agency as spirits.
> Since the Gospel stresses freedom of choice so much, I tend to think it would
> be the latter, but this is pure speculation of course.

  Considering President Benson's comments to some of the single adult males
  in general priesthood meeting a coupe of years ago, I don't think we can
  say they will be given the opportunity.  We should also think about
  Matthew 22:23-30, and the commentaries by the presidents of the Church on
  this scripture.

    Whenever I see speculation on "how things are going to be in heaven", I
    always remember 2 things, 1)The scripture that reads "My (God) ways are
    not man's ways."; and 2) A story told to me by a nun way back when I
    was in CAtholic Grammar School, which goes like this:
    
    	It seems a wealthy plantation owner decided to hold an exclusive
    	ball at his palatial home.  It was a very festive and luxurious
    	affair, with an orchestra, lavish food, decorations, formal attire,
    	etc.
    
    	Out in the barn the animals hearing and seeing all this festivity
    	were holding a debate on what was going on.  One old horse, the 
    	patriarch of the stable, interrupted and said that the master was
    	holding a ball, which meant that they had swept out the house, put
    	down new straw, placed full buckets of oats around the room, and
    	large bowls of apples.
    
    	Moral:  When it comes to thinking of what "heaven" will be like,
    	are we similar to the animals in barn trying to define "a ball".
    
    

My parents were divorced many years ago and got a cancellation of temple
sealing. After 13 years my father re-married. The woman he married had been
active in the church for years and her husband had never joined. She
married my father a couple of years after he first had died. So of course
she was sealed to my father (an my mother is of course not sealed to him).
The real suprize note is that my Father died 5 weeks later. The woman
then later married one more time, this time to an active member of the
church but for time only. They have now been married for several years.
The interesting part of this whole picture is the feeling of this woman
and one of her daughters. They are both very happy to be sealed to my
father (i see them ffrom time to time and they have told me this is true)
even though her life with my father in marriage was so extrememly short.
The daughter in fact never lived in the home with my father but still
has a love and respect for him such that she went to the temple and
was sealed as a child to that union and remarked to me just a couple of
months ago that she is very glad to be sealed as a daughter to him.

In otherwords, in such matters we all have to keep trusting that the 
Lord will guid us and let him help us school our feelings (how do you
think I feel when I consider that I am not sealed to my father but this
other lady's daughter is). So I continue to pray that the Lord will bless
us all with faith and patience to see it all work out for the best.

Your brother,

Len

>So I continue to pray that the Lord will bless
>us all with faith and patience to see it all work out for the best.

I like that statement, Len.  There are many unknowns in life, and we need
faith, hope, prayer, and patience to let the Lord's will be done.

Allen

    Hi!

    Just a question from an "outsider"...

    I see no Biblical support for "Temple Sealings".  Is this strictly a
    BoM, etc. doctrine or does the Mormon faith reference traditional Bible
    passages also?

    I'm aware of the Mormon stance on "the Bible not being the only Word of
    God".  Kind of hard to be ignorant of this part of the Mormon religion
    with all of the TV spots and magazine ads!

    Thanks!

    John

    
    Hi John,
    
    This is not strictly a "Mormon" doctrine.  This principle has always
    been in existence.  It existed during the times of Adam & Eve, it was
    present during the times of the Mosaic Law, and also during the time
    of Christ and shortly thereafter.  This principle was lost during the
    apostasy and was reinstituted when the Church of Jesus Christ was 
    restored upon the earth.
    
    Allen Leigh did a pretty good job of explaining this in Note 4.66.
    (All of Notes 4.* comprise an excellent overview of our beliefs).
    
    Best Regards,
    
    Frank

Hi John,

Welcome to the conference!

As Frank indicated, note 4.66 gives a basic review of our belief that
certain ordinances that take place in this life can be in effect (i.e. sealed)
in the next life.  Discussions of that note are in note 72.  If, after having
read those two notes, you would like further discussion, please feel free to
post questions and comments in note 72.

Allen

   This seems to be the place to put this...

   This last Sunday was Stake Conference and there was one story that I really
liked and thought I would share with all of you. It went something like this...

   There were two little angels playing in the spirit world who had passed on.
They were waiting for their parents to join them. These two angels became best
friends and spent a great deal of time playing together. One of the angels
parents arrived. Oh how she had waited for them. They hugged, they kissed, they
talked about days gone by. Then they approached the keeper of the gate. "We
are ready" said the father. The sentinel then said "let's see what mansions
are prepared for you". The father responded with "We'll only need one.". The
sentinel smiled and asked for the key. The father answered "What key?". "Why,
the keys you received when you entered the temple and were sealed together".
The father bowed his head in shame and responded "We never made it to the
temple. You see we always planned to but things just got in the way. Do you
think heavenly father will give us a second chance?". The guardian of the gate
responded with "You know heavenly fathers rules and I can't change those". 
Sadly the family members were lead to their respective mansions.

   The second little angel began to examine her own family. She searched in 
memory for any mention of a key. She worried. Had her family received the key?
Just then a strong voice from behind her called out her name. It was a voice
she recognized. It was her father. She ran to hold him and as her arms and his
met she noticed the bright shiney key.(here the speaker produced a large wooden
key with his family's name on it)

   This story was one of great importance to our family and we discussed it on 
the way home. I didn't even know that my 11 year old daughter or my wifes' 
second cousin, Brandi age 13 (who is now living with us) were even listening.
We discussed the story and then Brandi said "What about me? I don't want to be
all alone." You see Brandi has been with us about 2 months. For the last 11 
years of her life she has lived with her great grandmother age 86. Her mother 
has formed a new relationship in Reno Nevada and has had 3 more children. Yet 
she has never bothered to come and get her oldest child. The father was 
awarded physical custody and lives near the great grandmother. He too has 
formed a new relationship and has had 2 more children. He has always promised
to make Brandi a part of his life. He hasn't nor does it look like he will. 
Therefore, we have her now. She has adapted well into the family.

   To go on...We explained to Brandi that we hadn't explored in much detail
about making her an eternal part of our family. But, that we believed that
there were 2 ways to do this. One would be to adopt her. This seemed a remote
possibility because her father and mother might contend it and win her back.
The second way was for her to reach 18, and being worthy, be able to request 
this without the father and mothers permission. We then explained what it
means to be an eternal family. Unfortunately we couldn't give her any 
concrete answers.

   Monday, yesterday, my wife Carla had planned to see an attorney about the
cost etc. of legal guardianship. This would allow us to sign her up for
school and handle her legal affairs. He explained that for the same cost we
could adopt Brandi. We questioned the legality of such a thing and the
likelyhood of a positive outcome. He mentioned that by California statutes
she was considered abandoned by her parents a long time ago.

   Last night we pulled Brandi aside to discuss this with her and to see how
she felt about it. She welcomed it. She got really excited about being a part
of a family for eternity. We then discussed this in family home evening with 
the rest of the family. Everyone was very happy and welcomed the news that
Brandi would be a part of our family. Brandi has even begun to think of a new
name for herself - Alison Janae Ashford.

   It really excites me to be blessed with the opportunity to raise Brandi and
to provide her with a permanent place to call home. She will be a welcome 
addition to our 4 other children.

       Carter...

	re: <<< Note 370.16 by KOLFAX::ASHFORD >>>
            -< Stake Conference talk - eternal families >-

	I would think this was the perfect place to post your note.  Thanks
	for doing so, and good luck on your opportunity.  Please let us
	know how everything turns out.  It is nice to read about something
	going right with all the other stuff in the world dragging us down.

	It is interesting to re-read this thread and notice that until the 
	story of the little angels there was no mention of "keys."  To obtain
	these "keys" and the covenants we make, that is the purpose of the
	temple.  The plan of salvation could not go forward if these vicarious
	ordinances were not made available to those who had passed on before,
	and, indeed, the earth would be utterly wasted at Christ's coming.

	Charles

    re: .16  Oh, thanks for posting that!  :)
    
    Steve

    Wonderful, to hear about the magnitude of your family's heart. The
    pleas of an 11 year old to belong somewhere, to call that place home
    and family were not left unheard. 
    
    "By their fruits ye shall know them", and so it is that we know you and
    what kind of man and family you have.
    
    Paul

I appreciate all your comments. I may have led some to believe that this has
all been wonderful. It hasn't. This girl, Brandi, has been through a lot. Last
summer we had her also, except that her mother who hasn't had anything to do
with her for 10 years, decided she wanted her daughter. She felt that since
her ex-husband couldn't take care of Brandi that she would. At first we felt
very apprehensive. My wife even told them they would have to fight, in court
to get her. After my wife and I discussed it we felt that all we had ever
wanted was for Brandi to have a home. Also Great Grandma couldn't continue
to take care of her. With fear and trepidation we let her go. Her mother lives
in Reno, Nevada nearly a 6 hour drive. We only let her go because she wanted
to try and live with her mom.

   At first we didn't hear a thing. We tried to keep in contact by phone. Close
to Christmas we tried to get a hold of her but found that the phone was 
disconnected. Then just after Christmas we got our first call. The mothers
boyfriend was becoming very abusive both verbally and physically. The mother
made no attempt to remedy the situation. She was calling from a pay phone, it
was snowing, she had no jacket and the mothers boyfriend had locked her out 
of the house. We suggested that she go to the local police station. This 
caused Brandi all sorts of problems. Instead of recognizing that a problem
existed, the mother mearly placed Brandi on 1 month of restriction. The 
mothers boyfriend became really bad and so was Brandi. Child protection
services was called 3 times by neighbors and concerned individuals.

   In early March the mother and boyfriend decided to teach Brandi a lesson
and placed her in a children emergency shelter. I guess they thought is was 
more like a detention home and they wanted to punish her. It backfired, after
lengthy conversations with the councelors at the center, and follow up visits
with the mother it was decided that Brandi didn't have to go back to live
with the mother. A judge confirmed that decision. In the meantime Brandi was
having the greatest time while at the center. For the first time in almost 
6 months she didn't have to fight, she didn't have to be verbally battered.

   We became involved at this point. We contacted the center and child
protection services and offered our home as a place to stay. With the fathers'
approval the courts decided that she could live with us. We had a lot in our
favor. We had just completed an extensive foster care training, I have a good
stable job, and had lots of people who new us through the foster care training.

   On March 18 we flew Brandi to California. She had changed. In one respect
she had left behind all the anger, frustration and excess emotional baggage
she had carried for years in regards to her mother. On the other hand she came
back with an "I can do without anyone" attitude. For weeks she used the verbal
abuse she had learned on the other children. The family was all up-side-down
The only thing that saved us all was Family Home Evening. In one night we 
put a stop to all of the cutting down, all of the rude remarks, all the
verbal battery that no one wanted, yet everyone was a party to. Things got
better.

   Then it happened, in the heat of an argument with my wife, Carla, Brandi
used what she had learned and hit Carla with her fist on the back. Carla,
unhurt but traumatized called me at work. She was crying and very distraught.
This had so supprised her, she didn't know what to do. We got on the phone and
contacted several of the trainers and support personnel of the foster care
system we had just been working with. I was very angry, yet I wanted to do
the right thing. I prayed all the way home. When I arrived I took her for a 
ride. I didn't say anything, neither did she. I wondered if she were thinking 
I was getting rid of her like everyone else before. I took her to a park about
20 minutes ride from home. I didn't want her leaving me until we had "worked"
things out. It tooks hours of calm discussion, a very cool night (without 
jackets) and an empty stomach to finally break through that tough guy
attitude she had developed. I informed her that the next time she struck
anyone in this family, we would press charges. Just as it is illegal for and
adult to strike a child, so it works the other way.

   As it turns out we had passed the test. Anytime she was too much to handle
people got rid of her. We didn't. Since that time everthing has changed. She
now realizes that we care a great deal for her and want to keep her no 
matter what. We are trying to teach her a better way. The tough guy is gone,
the sweet girl is coming forward and she is bonding with our family.

   Bottom line is... it ain't a bed of roses but the rewards are great. I 
thank my father in heaven that we have this opportunity. I can't begin to
describe the growth that we have all experienced because of having Brandi in
our home...

      Carter...

    Hey, Carter, that brought tears to my eyes.  You write well and have a
    story that needs to be told.  I'm serious.  You should write it up
    formally and publish it with Reader's Digest or the Ensign or whatever.
    This story needs to get out and be shared.  Seriously.  If you want
    help, let me or others here know.
    
    Steve