Conference tecrus::mormonism

    Re: Note 294.0 by NWD002::DULL_TA

    Hi Tamara,
    
>In May 1988, I left St. Louis to move to Seattle.  In the process of my
>move, I stopped in Preston, Idaho, to visit my grandparents.  What was
>supposed to be a 2-day visit turned into a 10-month stay.  I lived in
>a canyon outside of Preston, and from May to October, I worked as the 
>head cook at my grandmother's restaurant.  Then from October to February 
>1989, I worked for the Center for Atmospheric & Space Sciences at Utah 
>State University in Logan, Utah.
    
    Hey! My first job after graduating from Utah State University was
    teaching school at Preston High School. I lived in Riverdale at the
    mouth of the Oneida canyon. That wouldn't by any chance be the same
    canyon would it? Small world, isn't it? 
    
>If my questions are offensive or they seem out of line, please feel free
>to let me know - either offline or online.  I'm not out to offend anyone
>or prove anything to anyone.  
    
    As far as I am concerned, you are welcome in the conference, and so are
    your questions. We may not have all of the answers, but perhaps we can
    all learn something by discussing them. I'm thankful for your efforts
    to take an an approach that is not contentious.
    
    In Christ's Love,
    Rich

    Ok all you Prestonites, your leader has arrived!!!
    
    The first and most important rule is:
    
    	Everybody be nice...			or else!!
    
    
    
    Hey, this feels good!
    
    Ed (self-appointed and fearless leader of all Prestonites!)
    

Nice notes!  Hey, just to make it clear where I stand, the discussions that
I have participated in here have led to a much better understanding for me.
One thing I like about these notes is that, in general, the Church can be 
discussed and tough questions handled.  (Prestonites are *welcome* here!)
I really appreciate thoughtful questions and thoughtful responses from many
sides of questions.  I appreciate your frankness, Tamara.  I hope that as
time goes on we can all come to understanding and acceptance.  As far as
the "nearer to God" aspect goes, I remember advice that was given me at the
MTC before I left for Denmark on my mission.  It was that we would meet a lot
of people who would not be near to God, who would not even read the Bible.
But, if we could at least get them to draw nearer to God, to read and appreciate
the Bible, they would be better off than before.  We were reminded to always
love the people and listen to the Spirit.  I have no doubts that "Joe" was
near to God, perhaps nearer than many of your Mormon friends.  Though not
quite a fair comparison, I am reminded of the times in the B of M when the
Church members were not as near to God nor as righteous as those who were not
members.  Definitely a lesson that is applicable today.  Thank you for your
thoughts!

Steve 

All people, regardless of whether we are LDS or not, have to come to grips
with ourselves at some point in time, but not all of us do it.  Many of us
hide behind a facade of meetings and callings and never really seek God.  I
like the story of Enos, because he finally reached the point in his life
where he hungered after God, and he spent a whole day in prayer and soul
searching.  He finally found peace within himself and with God.  Many of us
spend days, months, years struggling with our relationship with God.
Unfortunately, many of us don't.

I think the message of Christ, that he suffered for and died for our sins
is the greatest message of all.  The message that God loves each of us as if
we were his only child is the message that brings hope and peace to us.  As
we find this peace, however, we must continue to search for God, because the
peace that we feel at any moment of time is only a stepping stone to even
greater peace that can come as we approach even closer to God in our love and
worship of Him.

Allen

	It is a real shame that more Mormons do not have the spirit of God in
	their lives as Joe did.  Sometimes members of the church get so bogged
	down in their daily lives that they forget the foundation their lives
	should be built upon.  This is where knowing the basics comes in.  I 
	think that every once in a while we should review the basic principles
	of the gospel - faith, repentance, baptism and receiving the Holy 
	Ghost.  If the church leadership in the wards and stakes do not do 
	this, then I think the burdens of responsibility for those under their
	stewardship tends to drag them down.  Sometimes I feel so depressed I 
	just want to cry.  Then I have to retreat and be by myself, and read 
	and meditate on the scriptures.  Praying is a great help.  Anything 
	that will give me a renewal of God's Spirit.  Like a shot in the arm.
	I do so wish that more people would remember the foundation.

	Charles

    I usually don't participate in this conference while I'm at work,
    but I'm going to make an exception right now.
    
    Regarding Rich's question in .2 - I lived in Cub River Canyon. 
    The entrance to it was 2 miles north of Franklin and 5 miles south
    of Preston.  The restaurant my grandmother owns is Deer Cliff Inn.
    Did you ever go up there?  The Boy Scout camp is in Cub River canyon
    - actually it's in Hull Canyon which is part of Cub River canyon.
    Anyways, I come from the Hull line of folks.  [Pretty strange that
    my last name rhymes with Hull, huh?]
    
    Regarding Ed's self-appointed leadership:  I *love* it!  I thought
    you might pick up on that Preston bit.  I promise to be nice ...
    
    More later,
    Tamara

Hey Ed,

Can I join your "Prestonites"?  While I was an EE student at Utah State, I
spoke at Preston High School about Engineering as a career.

Allen

    Re: Note 294.6 by NWD002::DULL_TA

>   Regarding Rich's question in .2 - I lived in Cub River Canyon. 
>   The entrance to it was 2 miles north of Franklin and 5 miles south
>   of Preston.  The restaurant my grandmother owns is Deer Cliff Inn.
>   Did you ever go up there?  The Boy Scout camp is in Cub River canyon
>   - actually it's in Hull Canyon which is part of Cub River canyon.
>   Anyways, I come from the Hull line of folks.  [Pretty strange that
>   my last name rhymes with Hull, huh?]
    
    Yes, I have been to the Deer Cliff Inn! Excellent food, as I recall.
    Sure seems like I taught some Hull's in Preston High School. Also, my
    wife's cousin married a Woodward from Franklin. Perhaps you know the
    family. They have a big chicken ranch near there. 
    
    Side note for those who don't know, the current prophet of the church,
    Ezra Taft Benson, was born very near Preston, in Whitney, I believe. 

    In Christ's Love,
    Rich

    This note is quickly diverging into a note on the community of Preston.
    I will admit -it's nice to break for a minute from the seriousness
    of our recent discussions.
    
    Rich, I'm *sure* you taught some Hull's in high school.  There are
    so many of them - in the canyon alone, there were about 40-50 of
    them, with many of the kids visiting often.  The Hull clan is about
    50% Mormon.  My grandparents who own the Inn are Mormon.
    
    My grandmother was raised in Whitney with Ezra Taft Benson so they
    are good friends.  In fact, President Benson was going to perform
    the marriage ceremony in the temple for me and my (ex)fianc�.  I
    had my chance to meet the prophet . . . oh, well!
    
    Anyways, when I get home tonight, I have a few *serious* comments
    on some of the replies that have been posted today.
    
    Until tonight,
    Tamara

Re:  .1 by Rich

>    As far as I am concerned, you are welcome in the conference, and so are
>    your questions. We may not have all of the answers, but perhaps we can
>    all learn something by discussing them. I'm thankful for your efforts
>    to take an an approach that is not contentious.

Thank you.  It makes me feel better to know that my contributions to this
conference are not viewed as contentious.

Re:  .3 by Steve 

>We were reminded to always
>*love the people and listen to the Spirit*.  I have no doubts that "Joe" was
>near to God, perhaps nearer than many of your Mormon friends.  Though not
>quite a fair comparison, I am reminded of the times in the B of M when the
>Church members were not as near to God nor as righteous as those who were not
>members.  Definitely a lesson that is applicable today.  Thank you for your
>thoughts!
                                           
[Emphasis mine.]  Yup, yup, yup!  That's the key - to love one another and
be in tune to the Spirit!

Yes, *Joe* is near to God and so were most of my Mormon friends and 
acquaintances.  I personally chose to 'socialize' only with those Mormons
who were serious about their faith.  It seemed that any time I began to
seriously socialize with any of the "less actives", I found myself in heaps
of trouble  ;^) . . . Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that I wasn't 
lacking in Mormon friends and leaders who were strong in their faith and 
were devoted to the gospel.  I was lacking a personal spiritual relationship 
with God.  I see these as two different issues.

Re:  .4 by Allen

>All people, regardless of whether we are LDS or not, have to come to grips
>with ourselves at some point in time, but not all of us do it.  Many of us
>hide behind a facade of meetings and callings and never really seek God.

In the LDS Church, it is extremely difficult not to get distracted, i.e.
lose our focus on establishing a relationship with God, by the multitudes
of meetings and the time consumption of callings.  I admire those Mormons
who can maintain that spiritual closeness with God, while serving in their
respective callings in a way that God wants them to serve.

>I think the message of Christ, that he suffered for and died for our sins
>is the greatest message of all.  
 
Don't forget that he rose from the dead too!  This is the message of the
gospel as I was trying to point out in my 'gospel v. doctrine' note. 


Re:  .5 by Charles

>	It is a real shame that more Mormons do not have the spirit of God in
>	their lives as Joe did.  Sometimes members of the church get so bogged
>	down in their daily lives that they forget the foundation their lives
>	should be built upon.  

I don't think Mormons are the only ones 'plagued' with this problem.  I
believe many Christians struggle with the same issue - forgetting the basics.

>	This is where knowing the basics comes in.  I 
>	think that every once in a while we should review the basic principles
>	of the gospel - faith, repentance, baptism and receiving the Holy 
>	Ghost. 

Back to the basics is a concept I believe in wholeheartedly in all aspects
of my life.  It's a shame that some people don't realize how important it
is to understand the basics of *any* system or environment.

>	Sometimes I feel so depressed I 
>	just want to cry.  Then I have to retreat and be by myself, and read 
>	and meditate on the scriptures.  Praying is a great help.  Anything 
>	that will give me a renewal of God's Spirit.  Like a shot in the arm.
>	I do so wish that more people would remember the foundation.
 
Thank you for sharing that with us.  It's neat for me to see someone have
such genuine concern and love for their fellowmen.

Regards,
Tamara    
    

>Can I join your "Prestonites"?  While I was an EE student at Utah State, I
>spoke at Preston High School about Engineering as a career.

    Of course you may join, Allen. I would consider it a priviledge to
    have you as a member!
    
    To any and all would be Prestonites:
    
    Membership is open to anyone who -
    
    	Is named Preston (first or last - doesn't matter).
    
    	Has ever lived in Preston, Idaho or any other town or city
    	named Preston (there are several in England that I know of).
    
    	Has ever spoken to Preston High School students about careers.
    
    	Has ever even *been* to a town named Preston.
    
    	Knows anybody named Preston.
    
    	Thinks they'd like to know somebody named Preston. Or better
    	yet, would like to be named Preston themself (like my wife
    	before we were married, ha ha..).
    
    	Oh heck, anybody can join...
    
    Just remember the rules:
    
	1) Be nice.
 	2) If you can't be nice, at least try to be nice.
	3) If you blew it today, try again tomorrow. (I use this rule often)
    	      
    
    No dues. No meetings. No votes. No leaders (except me of course).
    	       

    Ed (Chief Prestonite)    
    

    Re .0
    
    Tamara, that's what I call a testimony! Thanks for sharing it.
    
    Ed
    

    It sure is nice to see some levity amongst us all.  Maybe it is due to
    the season.  May be we can continue it throughout our other notes.
    
    Now for a little digression:
    
    Tamara has opened the question I still try to find an answer for. I
    have mentioned it before, but have never got a response I could
    understand.  Here it is:  If there is only ONE FAITH, ONE LORD, ONE
    BAPTISM, how come there are so many variations in Christianity?
    
    There are 3 people I know; Rich, Don and myself, who all hungered after
    knowing the Lord, finding his Gospel, his Church. WE  all used the same
    process, i.e. prayer, fasting, scripture study, and searching.  Rich
    became a Born Again and joined the Assembly of God, Don set up his own
    Church and now is a minister in it, and I became a Mormon. 
    
    It seems to me that God would lead all his children in the same
    direction or give them all the same answer.  Anyone suggest an answer
    other than "some of these are Satan's deceptions.", because there are
    many many people who are faithful, sincere, searching persons with a
    real desire to know the Lord who believe and exercise a Christian
    charity that is exemplary.
    
    I have an suggestion, but will listen to others before posting mine.
    
    Peace on Earth (and in these notes) and Goodwill to all
    
    Paul
    
    

	RE: Note 294.13    SLSTRN::RONDINA

>    If there is only ONE FAITH, ONE LORD, ONE
>    BAPTISM, how come there are so many variations in Christianity?
    
>    It seems to me that God would lead all his children in the same
>    direction or give them all the same answer.  Anyone suggest an answer
>    other than "some of these are Satan's deceptions.", because there are
>    many many people who are faithful, sincere, searching persons with a
>    real desire to know the Lord who believe and exercise a Christian
>    charity that is exemplary.
    
	I would like to take a stab at this because there are so many members
	of the church that are like the many variations in Christianity.
	I think what it all boils down to is that we are all different and each
	one of us must have different experiences in life.  As no two people
	are exactly alike, no two people have exactly the same experiences.
	Oh, some people may have similar experiences, but each person would 
	get something different out of it than the other person did.
	I think it is important to remember that God leads all his children 
	to the same opportunities.  How His children use them is their agency.
	(And whether in this life or the next, everyone will have the same 
	opportunities.)

	In talking about the terrestrial world in D&C 76, verse 75 tells us
	that "These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were
	blinded by the craftiness of men."  Notice that it is man here which 
	leads astray and not "Satan's deceptions."  Besides agency, there is 
	the light of God.  In D&C 50:24 we are told "That which is of God is 
	light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth 
	more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the 
	perfect day."

	One does not have to be a Mormon to receive the light of God.  One
	does not have to be a Mormon to be healed through the power of God.
	What is the "light" which we are talking about here?  Could it not
	be righteousness?  Or understanding?  Or knowledge?  Or all of these?
	I remember reading about one of the prophets (I can't remember which 
	one right now) saying that no matter what religion a person believes
	in, they should follow to the best of their abilities the dictates
	of that religion.  No matter who or what you are, find out what you
	are supposed to do and then do all that you are able to do.  Live by
	whatever "light" you are given.  Continueth.  This is the key.  There
	are other scriptures that point out that if you do not live up to that
	which was given you, then it will be taken away.

	So I have rambled on, but the point I want to make is that there are 
	so many variations in Christianity because that is what the people
	want to hear or believe in.  They let their carnal desires over ride
	what God has for them.  It is much easier to say "I will follow God"
	than it is to do what He tells us.  I think this is why Jesus told
	Joseph that "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts
	are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men,
	having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." JS2:19

	The "many people who are faithful, sincere, searching persons with a
	real desire to know the Lord who believe and exercise a Christian
	charity that is exemplary" will not be forgotten.  There is a place
	prepared for them in the many mansions of the Kingdom of God.  But
	I think that most of them will eventually become Mormons.

	Charles

Hey Ed,

I passed a truck on I495 this morning that was from Preston, Md. and was
owned by the Preston Trucking Company.  Glad to see that our Prestonites
are expanding.

Allen