Conference tecrus::mormonism

    According to the account of the creation in the Book of Moses, all
    things were created spiritually before they were in the flesh.
    Therefore, just as we lived as spirits prior to this life, so also
    did the animals.

    
    I don't have the references in front of me but yes, all living things
    have spirits. We can expand this to include all matter. According to 
    Brigham Young, even the earth itself has a spirit. 
    
    Kevin 

    I think section 93 of the doctrine & covenants talks about all things
    containing matter.  Also, section 77 contains answers to questions and
    one of the questions asks about the beasts worshipping the Lord which
    are mentioned in Revelations.  
    
    I don't have my triple combination handy, but I may be wrong.
    scott

    Bees, ants, butterflies, moths, silkworms and fishing worms go to
    heaven.  The rest of the insect world go to outer darkness.  Fish
    go to heaven, so we can have somthing to eat.  And, there is only one
    amoeba, since it just divided and never died, so it goes to heaven.  
    
    Steve

    
    I think it will be overcrowded with all those ants Steve :^) ,
    which brings me to another concern,that is,is heaven overpopulated??
    :^) .
    
    I would like to see certain animals in heaven,but,I am not sure what
    purpose some of them will serve.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

The scriptures talk about the lamb and the lion lying down together, i.e.
no animosity exists between animals.  That sounds good, right?  OK, how about
cockroaches.  If no animosity exists , then cockroaches will become friends
and we can keep them for pets in heaven....

Allen

    
    >    Brigham Young, even the earth itself has a spirit. 

    Egad, a New Age concept from Brigham Young! +! 8^)
    
    fwiw, I believe that. I believe that about trees. That's why I hate
    seeing them chopped down wantonly just to make someone rich.
                                                  
    Taks a walk in the woods sometime. Go alone. Don't hold any particular
    thought in your mind, ponder nothing. Just BE. And see of you don't
    sense anything.
    
    Neal/B

    re: -1
    
    Hi! 
    
    concerning the following:
    
    > Brigham Young, even the earth itself has a spirit.
    
    I was careful NOT to pull the entire statement out... I only gave you
    part of it. But... why not give you the rest!  Here goes ...
    He actually stated that the tides were caused by the breathing of the 
    Earth! There's a new concept for you! As for animals, well they'll be
    in an immortalized state like the rest of us. Personally, I've
    pondered over what celestial trout would taste like. 8^). Of course,
    that's if you assume you'll need to eat at all. 
    
    Mike, on the subject of over population, well, we aren't sure what
    kind of plane we'll be on, dimension-wise, but I'm sure if all things
    were created spiritually first, there must of been space to hold all
    creatures, plant matter, elements, and us, of course. 
    
    Kevin...

Here is a quick thought before I leave for home.  The Book of Moses says
that all things were created spiritually before they were created physically.
However, that does not imply that the earth, rocks, etc. are living
objects.  It merely means that everything was created out of spiritual
matter (which Joseph Smith was more refined & pure) before it was created
out of physical matter.

Allen

    I entered this in before, but got a network abort error. The scriptures
    do say that all things were created from spiritual matter.  I don't
    remember if this is in the D & C or if it is in the P of GP.  Also, it
    does mention in the D & C section 77 about the beasts that worship God. 
    It asks a question based on scriptural references in the Book of
    Revelations.  I guess this would mean that all creatures worship God in
    the hereafter.  This brings up a question.  How can a creature be
    wicked or bad?  Where do they learn there morals?  Do they have the
    Light of Christ in them?  I also remember reading in the Storm
    Testament series about some Mormon travelers who were coming out west
    and they administered to a steer or mule when it was sick.  After the
    administration, the animal got up and they continued on there journey. 
    Did that animal have faith or was it healed by the faith of those
    around it?  
    
    scott

    
    
    
    Kevin,
    
      I wasnt really serious about overpopulation in heaven. The universe
    is immense,I dont think that is a problem. I wonder about getting from
    one place to another. Do they have transporters? :^) . I am not
    interested in having cockroaches as friends either. I dont think
    animals have morals,just trained,or instinctive behavior,therefore,they
    would be in heaven.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    The birds and the beasts and the flowers and all forms of animal
    AND VEGETABLE life were commanded to multiply and bring forth fruit
    after their own kind, that they might fill the measure of their
    creation AND HAVE JOY therein.
    
    That bespeaks intelligence.
    
    Theo.

    	From the Bible:
    
    		"...I said in my heart with regard to the 
    		sons of men that God is testing them to
    		show them that they are but beasts.  For 
    		the fate of the sons of men and the fate of
    		beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the
    		other.  They all have the same breath(*), 
    		and man has no advantage over the beasts;
    		for all is vanity.  All go to one place; all
    		are from the dust and all turn to dust
    		again.  Who knows whether the spirit of
    		man goes upward and the spirit of the beast
    		goes down to the earth? ..." (Eccl 3:18-21 RSV)
    
    (*) Note that the Hebrew word rendered "breath" (_weruach_) in v.19, is
    the same basic word that's rendered as "spirit" in v.21.  [The LXX uses
    the word _pneuma_, which is also translated as "spirit" in other
    verses.]  Basically it's a feature of translation (possibly reflecting
    the translator's opinion) to render the same word differently.
    
    	From this passage, it's possible to conclude that animals DO have
    "spirits"; although one then has to explain why they are equated with
    human spirits, given that humans and animals are so very different.
    Also, given that it says that both humans an animals "turn to dust
    again" once they die, one also has to explain what it means to say (or
    question whether) the spirit of man "goes upward" at death and that of
    beasts "goes down to the earth" since their "spirits" are the same.
    
    -mark.

    I believe it was C.S. Lewis who jokingly remarked that a heaven
    for mosquitoes could well be a hell for mankind!
    
    I hope to have the companionship of my beloved animals throughout
    eternity, but on this question (among many) I have implicit faith in
    our Heavenly Father's plan, to the point that I (speaking for me, no 
    one else) don't feel a need to understand the details now.
    
    aq
                          
    I hope the snakes are somewhere else!

    
    
    Are we really that different? We are,if compared by the physical,not
    that much different than animals. We have pretty much the same systems
    that animals have. The only difference would be the developement of the
    brain. Is intelligence a prerequesic to get into heaven? 
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    I loved my cat and hope to be reunited with her.  One of her favorite
    things to do was hunt mice and give them to her children (us) as
    gifts.  Her idea of heaven, if she had one, was probably of a place
    where she could stalk mice in abundance and be rewarded for her
    valor by her young ones.  Of course, mice would probably not have
    the same appreciation for her version of heaven.  So, what do I
    think will happen when my cat gets to heaven?  I figure that heaven
    will not be exactly the kind of place that she might have thought
    it was.  There probably will be no mice to stalk.  Will she be happy
    there?  I think so.  But, it will probably be that the things that
    make her happy there may not include all of the things that made
    here happy here.  
    
    There's probably a lesson in there for us humans.  We'll probably
    be happy if/when we make it to heaven.  But, the things that make
    us happy might not be what we expect.  The Scriptures help us
    understand what we need to be happy in heaven.  These seem to be
    things like loving each other, being fruitful, being humble and
    charitable, that kind of thing.  I really have no idea about what
    will or will not be resurrected to heaven.  I'm not sure I'm even
    capable of understanding the answer.  And, it seems to have little
    to do with my salvation.  But, I have faith that whatever happens
    will be God's way and most of His creations will be content with the
    results.

    
    Steve

    
    Mike,
    
    ...As the Prophet said, it is impossible for a man to be saved in
    ignorance. and ...the glory of God is intelligence. If we look in
    the area of man's intellegence, yes. As for matter, the Prophet 
    taught that it is co-exists with God. According to O. Pratt, there 
    is intelligence in all matter. When we come to the knowledge that 
    God organised matter, that the elements were organised to what we see 
    here today, we get a glimpse at the magnitude of His creation. These 
    elements make up all plant ,animal life , and the elements. As for us, 
    We are his literal spirit children, enclosed in this mortal tabanacle 
    temporarily. The Lord having control over the elements, has the ability 
    to have us be ressurrected in immortal bodies. It is that we are 
    spiritual off-spring of Heavenly Father, that separates us from the 
    animals and plants. In as much as the Lord has command over the 
    elements and they obey his will, you might conclude that there is 
    intelligence in matter. If you commanded a rock to move you might have 
    a problem. If you had sufficient faith you might be able to move it. I 
    have no doubt as to the Lord's ability to do so. Does this mean the Lord 
    has "supernatural ability". No, he has a perfect understanding of all
    things. Does this imply that the rock obeys His will out of
    intelligence, or does it mean that through the Lords' understanding,
    the means to move the rock is achieved? We read that we all are
    neophytes in our understanding of things, yet we have the potential
    of being Gods, and.....God was once what we are today. So..... 
    
    I believe personally that there is a spiritual as well as a natural;
    That God can command the elements, and they obey His will out of
    His knowledge of their makeup. That matter coexists with God, ie.
    he organised them, yet the atoms that makes them up prexisted our
    God. As one progresses he (or she) gains dominion over lesser
    creations. Finally, when I see a rock that can talk, you'll
    be one of the first I'll tell.
    
    Later,
    
    Kevin 

    Boy, talk about being on the edge of the "mysteries of the kingdom".
    Anyhow, here is my 2 cents since somebody started all this dicsussion
    about animals.
    
    First:
    
    
    Someone I respect, many years ago, said that B. Young said or taught
    that in the evolution of the "intelligences" towards a god-like
    condition (of which becoming a spirit child and then an embodied
    spirits were the last steps), that some of these intelligences chose to
    halt their eternal progress, choosing not to progress beyond some fixed
    point.  These intelligences, so said B. YOung, have come to earth as
    animals, 

    
    Gee, I gotta check that one out. Speaking on mysteries of the kingdom,
    How 'bout those Patriots!
    
    Kevin