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Conference tecrus::mormonism

Title:The Glory of God is Intelligence.
Moderator:BSS::RONEY
Created:Thu Jan 28 1988
Last Modified:Fri Apr 25 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:460
Total number of notes:6198

246.0. "Masonry, other worlds, & UFO's" by KIRKWD::FRIEDMAN () Wed Sep 21 1988 18:01

    Are there Masonic rituals incorporated into Mormonism?

    Are there references to other planets in Mormon literature?
    
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246.1Worlds without numberRIPPLE::KOTTERRIRich KotterThu Sep 22 1988 12:07135
    I did a little research and came up with some additional references to
    other worlds... 
         
    Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon had a vision and bore this testimony: 

         And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the
         Father, and received of his fulness; 
             
         And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of
         him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of
         him: That he lives! 
         
         For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard
         the voice bearing record that he is the only Begotten of the
         Father -- 
         
         That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and
         were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons
         and daughters unto God.  (D&C 76:20,22-24) 
    
    In the Book of Moses (Pearl of Great Price) is an account of the vision
    given to Moses of the creation. 
        
         And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that
         Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face
         to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: for mine own
         purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it
         remaineth in me. 
         
         And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is
         mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth. 
         
         And worlds without number have I created; and I also created
         them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them,
         which is mine Only Begotten. 
         
         And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is
         many. 
         
         But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants
         thereof, give I unto you. For behold there are many worlds
         that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are
         many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but
         all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know
         them. 
         
         And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying:
         be merciful unto they servant, O God, and tell me concerning
         this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the
         heavens, and then thy servant will be content. 
         
         And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they
         are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are
         numbered unto me, for they are mine. 
         
         And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof
         even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works,
         neither to my words. 
         
         For behold, this is my work and my glory -- to bring to pass
         the immortality and eternal life of man. 
         
         And now, Moses, my son, I will speak unto thee concerning
         this earth upon which thou standest; and thou shalt write the
         things which I shall speak. (Moses 1:31-40) 
         
    Enoch had a vision in which he saw the heavens weeping because of the
    wickedness of men. 
    
         And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the
         residue of the people, and he wept; and Enoch bore record of
         it, saying: How is it that the heavens weep, and shed forth
         their tears as the rain upon the mountains? 
         
         And Enoch said unto the Lord; How is it that thou canst weep,
         seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity? 
         
         And were it possible that man could number the particles of
         the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be
         a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains
         are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy
         bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and
         kind forever; 
         
         And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy
         creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but
         peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne;
         and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it
         thou canst weep? 
         
         The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are
         the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their
         knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of
         Eden, gave I unto man his agency; 
                                                  
         And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given
         commandment, that they should love one another, and that they
         should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without
         affection, and they hate their own blood; 
         
         And the fire of mine indignation is kindled against them; and
         in my hot displeasure will I send in the floods upon them,
         for my fierce anger is kindled against them. 
         
         Behold, I am God; Man of Holiness is my name; Man of Counsel
         is my name; and Endless and Eternal is my name, also. 
         
         Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the
         creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them
         also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has
         not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren. But
         behold, their sins shall be upon the heads of their fathers;
         Satan shall be their father, and misery shall be their doom;
         and the whole heavens shall weep over them, even all the
         workmanship of mine hands; wherefore should not the heavens
         weep, seeing these shall suffer? 
         
         But behold, these which thine eyes are upon shall perish in
         the floods; and behold, I will shut them up; a prison have I
         prepared for them. 
         
         And That which I have chosen hath pled before my face.
         Wherefore, he suffereth for their sins; inasmuch as they will
         repent in the day that my Chosen shall return unto me, and
         until that day they shall be in torment; 
         
         Wherefore, for this shall the heavens weep, yea, and all the
         workmanship of mine hands. (Moses 7:28-40) 
         
    To me this is a fascinating subject, because by these scriptures we
    know that there are other worlds, there are people on them, and we also
    know why God created them, and that he has compassion on all his
    creations. 
               
    Rich 
246.2MORMON VIEWS ON UFO'S?DPDMAI::SMITHERSWed Mar 13 1991 14:5511
Does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have any 
thing to say (officially or unofficially) on the subject of UFO's and
extraterrestrial beings?  I have been a member most of my life (although I
was inactive for a while) but I don't remember ever hearing or seeing 
anything on the subject other than the scriptural reference (I don't know
where exactly) about "other worlds".

I'm not particularly interested in UFO's as such, so please don't direct me
to a UFO conference.  It's just that I have this wierd idea about them, and 
I want to see what thoughts other LDS people have about this subject.

246.3UFO'S DESCRIBED IN SCRIPTURE?DPDMAI::SMITHERSMon Mar 25 1991 21:2533
    Okay, since no one is going to take the bait on this one I'll add some
    more meat....
    
    Following are some quotes from a book titled "The Signs of the Last
    Days".  Author is Vicki Alder.  Back cover describes her in part as 
    "married in Salt Lake temple, eight children, resides in Nevada, has
    worked in every auxiliary in the church, currently Relief Society
    President, etc....."  Also states that this book is the culmination of
    many years of extensive research and study on the subject of latter-day
    prophesy and the second coming of the Lord.
    
    Okay, now for some quotes from the inside of the book:
    ...what God and angels travel in is variously called in the scriptures:
    a cloud of heaven, a chariot of fire, chariots like a whirlwind, a
    pillar of a cloud (by day), a pillar of fire (by night), a wheel
    within a wheel, a star and a flying roll.
    
    Some people might be offended by the thought that God might use a
    vehicle to travel in.  They might think that would lessen the power of
    God in their minds. ...  Knowing what God travels in is not essential
    to our exaltation. ...  It is always a blessing any time we can gain a
    better understanding of the scriptures.  We should always pursue truth
    and understanding; even if such discoveries can be shocking and are
    different from our previous conclusions.
    
    Then she refers to Ezekiel 1:4-19 and Ezekiel 10:16-20 for descriptions
    of a couple of "vehicles".
    
    Come on... somebody's bound to have an opinion out there.  What do you
    think about this?  Is this lady out in left field?  I know the only way
    to get a *real* answer for myself is to pray about this, and as the
    author states, this is NOT essential knowledge for our salvation, but I'd 
    like to hear some other LDS opinions.  
246.4RICKS::SHERMANECADSR::SHERMAN 225-5487, 223-3326Tue Mar 26 1991 01:5317
    My opinion, FWIW, is that speculation is only that and often has little
    correlation with doctrine or reality.  Ms. Alder is speculating and it
    sounds like that is made pretty clear.  As to the scriptural
    references, my own opinion is that some of those listed have to do with
    prophets of old describing as best they can the events of the latter
    days.  Obviously, a prophet isn't going to use terms like "helicopter"
    or "ballistic missile".  And, even if these were the terms used, one
    can only imagine what translators would do to it.  
    
    I can't explain away all UFOs.  Nor have I ever encountered Church
    doctrine dealing specifically with UFOs.  The impression I have is that
    there are other worlds with other beings like ourselves.  But, even
    many atheists believe this just based on chance.  I don't feel that
    there are aliens that are snooping around.  Of course, I have heard
    that "Mars wants women" ...  ;^)
    
    Steve
246.5Spaceships of EzekielRHODES::RONDINATue Mar 26 1991 08:2619
    Have you read "Spaceships of Ezekiel"?  I did many years ago.  It
    is written by a NASA engineer/scientist who was struck by the accurate
    observations and descriptions of Ezekiel during one of his visitations
    by the Lord.  This is an interesting book because the author describes
    the scientific plausibility of what Ezekiel saw.
    
    I have never encountered any published ideas on UFOs.  As for other
    worlds, see the previous notes with quotes from the P of GP.  Also
    in one of my BYU Religion Classes (mucho years ago) we studied the
    creation and origins of the Garden of Eden.  One of the Gen. Auth.
    we read said that Adam and Eve, like all life in the Garden, were
    transplants from another world.
    
    Interesting speculations, but I don't think scripturally substantiated.
     Of course there is the classic line of Joseph Smith,  "If I could
    tell you all I know and who I am, people would kill me."  What did
    he know?  Hm........
    
    Paul
246.6CACHE::LEIGHLet your light shineTue Mar 26 1991 10:1543
The scriptures clearly teach that there are many (to us an infinite number)
worlds.  They were all created by Jesus Christ, and he is the Savior of all
of them.

I think it is reasonable to assume that we can take our world as an example
of the Savior's creations and then extrapolate our scientific progress to 
these other worlds.  As others have pointed out this is speculation and not
essential to our exaltation, and we should be careful to not fall into the
trap of believing our speculation; speculation is interesting and fun as long
as it remains speculation in our minds and doesn't consume a lot of time; it
is dangerous when we begin to accept our speculation as fact.

Since the other worlds were created by Jesus Christ, I think it is a
reasonable assumption that the inhabitants on these other worlds will look
like us and won't be the strange life-forms that are often portrayed in Sci-Fi
stories.  It is likely that they will be going through the same progression
that we are and have the same problems (war, crime, pride, hate, social
problems, etc.) that we have.

We have progressed in science and technology to the point where we have landed
people on our moon and have landed spacecraft on Mars.  We have taken photos of
more distant planets, and we have even sent a spacecraft out of our solar
system.  I think it is a reasonable assumption to assume that the infinite
number of other worlds were not all created at the same time and that some of
them are further in advancement than others.  Thus, it is reasonable to expect
that some of them would be further along in advancement than we are, and that
they will have space craft that go faster and that they will have landed people
on celestial bodies further away than we have.  Whether it is possible for a
society to construct space craft that can go faster than the speed of light
remains to be seen--according to our present scientific knowledge, we would
have to say "no"--and I think this would be a requirement for people from
other worlds to satisfy in order for them to visit our solar system.

To me, it is reasonable to expect that there *could* be space travelers that
*might* visit us.  Whether they would make themselves known to us or not, is
open to speculation.  If they ever do, I hope I'm around to visit with them.

From another viewpoint, we do have scriptural documentation of beings from
other worlds visiting us.  I'm referring to resurrected beings.  The Bible
documents Christ's resurrection and the resurrection of others.  The D&C
documents the resurrection of several of the ancient prophets.  

Allen