Conference tecrus::mormonism

    to LEZAS:
    
    Farewell and I wish you well with your forthcoming baby.  To experience
    procreation and birth (and the attendant joys of family life) is
    one of the great gifts from our God.  
    
    I commend your diligence in asking questions and seeking for truth.
    God will never disappoint the sincere truth seeker, and ultimately
    will give the answer you seek, but perhaps in an unexpected way.
    
    Best Wishes
    
    Paul

    Re: Note 167.0 by IAMOK::LEZAS
    
    Hi Leza, 

    You have asked why it is that when you sought the Lord regarding the
    truth of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you felt directed
    not to follow it, and that it was a false religion. But your question
    leaves out a very important part of your experience. In your own entry
    in note 2.13, you wrote: 
    
>   About 10 years ago I didn't know much about Christ, church or anything
>   religious for that matter.  But I knew something had to be better
>   than what I already had.  I worked for an insurance company at that
>   time and many of my coworkers were Mormons.  They explained to me
>   their gospel and at first I was very interested.  
>   
>   The Mormons have a great deal to offer--they are loving, kind, generous
>   and seek after the things of God.  I read alot of the books they
>   gave me and the literature and I almost considered joining.  One
>   thing stopped me, however.  When my Mormon friend told me to pray
>   about it, that I would have a firm confirmation that Mormonism was
>   correct, I would feel it in my bosom.
>   
>   I sought the Lord, and I will admit there was a burning sensation
>   in my bosom.  Following that was what I am feeling now, I have the
>   shakes, as if I am cold, but I am not, it is the power of the Holy
>   Ghost and I was firmly told that Mormonism was not the correct religion
>   and that it was contradictory to basic Christian beliefs.

    You were promised a confirmation that would come to your bosom
    confirming the truth of what you had studied, not unlike the burning
    that the disciples felt as they walked with the Savior and he unfolded
    truths to them in the Bible. You *did* receive this witness, just as it
    was promised. *This* was the answer of the Holy Ghost. 
                                                          
    But then Satan, who tries to deceive even the elect of God, sent his
    influence to cause you to doubt, and ultimately reject the witness that
    the Holy Ghost had given you. The cold and the shakes that came to you
    were not from the Holy Ghost, but from Satan. For some reason, you
    chose to heed the witness of the second spirit, rather than the first
    witness, which came from the Holy Ghost. 
    
    I bear you my solemn witness that it is by this power of the Holy Ghost
    that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I
    am thankful for that witness, and am firm in my hope that I many never
    be deceived by any influence from man or from Satan to reject it. 
                                   
    You have spent much energy in trying to justify your position. You have
    been quick to cling to the opinions and accusations of apostates and
    enemies of the church, and you have been slow to accept the documented
    and reasoned responses to your accusations. You have slandered the
    character of a great prophet, Joseph Smith, by accusing him of
    adultery, and yet, when your accusations are shown to be
    unsubstantiated, you are silent. 
    
    You have taken it upon yourself to be the judge of who is a Christian,
    and who is not, a very precarious position, indeed. You have stated
    that you believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does
    not follow the Jesus of the Bible. I say we do believe in and follow
    Jesus Christ -- that Jesus who was miraculously born of the virgin
    Mary, the Only Begotten of the Father, lived a sinless life, took upon
    himself the sins of the world, suffered death on the cross, rose from
    the dead on the third day, ascended into Heaven and will return in like
    manner. As far as I know, there is only one Jesus that fits this
    description. This is the Jesus that we follow. 
    
    Your notes have caused me to ponder and pray and search the truth of
    what you have said. I am grateful that you have caused me to do this,
    for I have found your arguments sorely wanting, and I have been
    strengthened in what I know to be true. 
    
    I wish you the best of luck in your upcoming childbirth, and I pray
    that you will come to know, as I do, that the things that we have said
    are true. 
    
    Witnessing of Christ,
    Rich

Hi Leza,

Yes, we have our differences, but I hope that in all that has transpired
during the past year, we are still friends.  I wish you well with your
new child and with your family in general.  May the Lord bless you and
protect you, Leza.

Allen

RE: .0

>    Question 2:  If you were to die tonight, would you go to heaven?
>    For doctrinal clarification, let me restate that for Mormons: 
>    If you were to die tonight would you go to Celestial Heaven, or
>    in other words, would you obtain Godhood?
>    
>    My answer:  I bet you don't know if you would go to Celestial heaven
>    or not.  Oh yes, you would go to A heaven, because the Mormon faith
>    guarantees salvation for ALL.  But you do not know for sure that
>    you have preformed enough baptisms for the dead, or enough endowments,
>    or that you followed all the ordinances to guarantee yourself Godhood.
>    But in your faith - no problem.  Once you find out which heaven
>    you ended up in, you can work your way up to Godhood.
    
Leza, 

This statement shows just how much you have misunderstood the Mormon 
faith. We don't believe any of that stuff at all. Not even close. With
regard to this, and in regard also to your comments about Hell, what we
actually believe is that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are bound by the
demands of Justice. We will all get what we deserve, and I'm sure you'll
agree with that. 

>    As a mormon or any other member of a non-Christian religion, (if
>    Christianity is true) you will go to hell.  Plain and simple.
    
Wrong again. Not only doesn't it make any sense, but it denies the infinite 
love and mercy and justice of Jesus Christ. Why would He condemn people who
are misled, or those who have never even had a *chance* to hear his name?
He won't. He can't. The Jesus I believe in *loves* me, and all the children 
of God - equally.

I just had to say that. In any event, I hope all goes well with the new 
addition to your family. Best wishes for a happy life.

Sincerely,
/kevin

    Leza,
    
    Thanks for your participation, and I wish you well with the addition
    to your family.  I appreciated your addressing us as your Mormon
    friends.  Though we have differences, we are your friends and will
    continue to be so.  Good luck and God bless!
    
    Steve

    Leza,
    I haven't responded to your notes in the past because I feel that
    when someone has a chip on their shoulder, they really don't appreciate
    anyone else trying to knock it off.  But your last note has given
    me reason to write.
    
    Personally, I don't feel it necessary to try and refute your claims
    either.  I always felt in my heart that we are all brothers and sisters
    in Christ.  However, your claim that we must worship some other
    Christ makes me wonder just who it is that you believe in.  My Savior
    is a loving God and for those who truely seek to find the truth,
    he will send answers.  My prayers have been answered.
    
    I forgive you for being prejudised against the LDS Church because
    even though your vision is clouded, I love you just the same.
    
    I imagine that when Christ walked the earth long ago, He had many
    unbelievers that He was the Son of God, and it surely must have broken
    His heart that people refused to believe in Him.  As a member of
    the LDS Church I can tell you this.  We don't have to argue whether
    our church is true.  We know it is and all we are trying to do is
    share it with everyone.  It is your choice, if you choose to deny it.
     
     But, keep praying for the truth and I believe that your prayers
    will be answered.  Perhaps your strong objections to the church
    is indeed your answer.  I find that my testimony has only been
    strengthened by your negative notes.  They have caused me to truly
    ask my Father in Heaven for understanding.  Perhaps your mission on earth
    has been to cause the Saints to dig deep into their hearts to find
    the answers.  What I have found is a stronger testimony that this
    is the true church.  The answer is there if you only seek it. 
    
    As a mother of five and a grandmother of four, I wish you well with
    your new child.  Surely the true Light of Christ is in each and
    every child born on earth.  God Bless you.
                                          

    Dear Leza,
    
    
    It is not very often that I write replies to messages in the
    Mormonism NOTES file simply because I cannot bear the torn
    feeling I have within my heart regarding those brothers and
    sisters I have upon this earth that say they prayed and 
    received an answer that the Mormon Church is not the truth
    and they are not to join it.  
    
    However, I feel it necessary to simply say that I know from
    my experience with praying and through the testimony I have
    gained in my past 5 years of being converted to Mormonism that
    truth is received through, as you stated, a burning in your
    bosom.  YES, heat and warmth in your bosom are signs from our
    Father in Heaven when he sends us truth and answers.  Cold
    sensations and shivers are therefore brought to us by Satan
    who stands ready to deceive us any moment we will allow him.
    Father represents warmth and love and a peaceful joyous feeling.
    He never sends us answers that will give us a miserable cold
    feeling.
    
    I bear this true testimony to you that five years ago my husband, who
    was seeking the truh about Mormonism and desiring to convert, but
    desired to find out the total truth,  had a spiritual experience in the 
    middle of the night.  During the course of this experience, he had 
    a witness that Mormonism was the absolute truth and his body was 
    flooded with a joy that he never before felt in his life. When relating
    the story to me of what happened to him, he told me he had such
    a warm and wonderful feeling as if heat and light and total warmth
    were flooding his entire body from head to toe. He told me that during
    his spiritual experience, he felt the presence of Satan next to
    him and that at that moment, everything around him became very black
    and dark and cold and he began to shiver as if he were in the dead
    of winter with no hope of ever feeling warmth again.  That very
    experience taught him who was responsible for giving us either a
    feeling of warmth (truth) or cold (lies). He bore his testimony
    to me that Heavenly Father gave him the warmth as a testimony that
    the Mormon Church was true and that Satan tried to trick him into
    not believing this by overpowering him with a cold, shivery, dark,
    black sensation throughout his entire body and room.
    
    I stand as a witness for Jesus Christ that both he and his
    Father inspire us and fill us with warmth and light and truth
    through a warm feeling and that anything less than this in the
    form of cold and empty feelings are from Satan who desires our
    souls so that we may be as miserable as he is.  My Jesus, Heavenly
    Father and Holy Ghost are the same as those written and spoken of
    in the Holy Bible.  
        
    I am so grateful to Father for my enormous testimony and my
    membership in the Mormon Church.  
    
    Only if you are unafraid of truth can you find it-----truth is
    worth searching for!
    
    Joy and happiness to you in motherhood.  I have found it to be he
    greatest calling I have in this life.
    
    Much love,
    Penny
                        

    Dear Leza,
    
    I am an "investigator" of the LDS Church and have been since July.
    I have been reading this notesfile for some time, and have followed
    your notes in particular.
    
    I know what it feels like to search for a religion, a church, a
    fellowship--I've been searching for a very long time.  I had a lot
    of doubts, too, when I first started working with the missionaries
    and reading the Book of Mormon.  I spent a lot of time on my knees
    asking God for a testimony to the truth of the Book of Mormon, and
    Joseph Smith's prophecies.  I have read the Bible all my life, and
    have been "born again" also.  I firmly believe that Jesus Christ
    is my savior, guide, and friend, and that He came to save me and
    all of us from sin, death, and fear.  I know that I am never alone
    because He is always with me.  
    
    I want to share my testimony to the truth with you because I somehow
    feel that you and I are very much alike.  One evening as we were
    all reading and talking together in one of our Thursday night meetings,
    I KNEW without a doubt that the Book of Mormon, the prophecies of
    Josepth Smith, and the LDS Church IS true.  It's hard to put into
    words exactly what I felt--I did feel the burning and the warmth;
    but most of all I felt a deep and unshakeable assurance that finally
    I was on the right path for myself, and that I was "home".  I will
    never forget that feeling as long as I live.  
    
    Your notes have caused me to think more about what happened, and
    to read, study, ponder, and pray even harder.  I am more convinced
    than ever that this is right, and I am grateful to you for inspiring
    me to research.  
    
    The best of luck to you, to your family, and to your new baby. 
    Keep in touch, and please stay well.
    
    Jane