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Conference tecrus::mormonism

Title:The Glory of God is Intelligence.
Moderator:BSS::RONEY
Created:Thu Jan 28 1988
Last Modified:Fri Apr 25 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:460
Total number of notes:6198

152.0. "Mormon Historical Sites" by MEMIT1::OSSLER () Mon Aug 01 1988 15:38

I'd like to open a general topic about Mormon historical sites, and 
people's reactions to them.

As of tomorrow, I will have been a member for two years. In that time,
I have only been able to visit a few places. While I was investigating, 
I traveled up to the Joseph Smith birthplace in Sharon, VT. That trip
was one of the things that helped me want to continue to look into the
Church. It was clear from the people I talked to there and the
Visitor's Center and everything else that Mormons had a true reverence
for what the Church teaches. It wasn't just the missionaries and the
few local members I had met that really seemed to believe all this
stuff; one could travel anywhere and find saints with a deeply rooted
testimony of the truth of the Gospel. 

Over the weekend I went to the Hill Cumorah pageant, in Palmyra NY. It
was a very special experience, which I plan to describe in a
subsequent reply. Suffice it to say for now that I am deeply grateful
that the Church sponsors such things, and that I plan to see as much
of the Mormon historical sites as I can. 

In the meantime, what places have you visited, what did you think 
about when you got there, and which would you recommend to see? Are
there any that merit a special trip? 

A brother,
/kevin
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152.1There's a site in OmahaNRPUR::BALSAMOSave the WailsTue Aug 02 1988 10:0112
   re: 152.0 <MEMIT1::OSSLER>

   >general topic about Mormon historical sites...

       Last summer, I visited a friend in Omaha, Nebraska.  There is what I
   believe to be a Mormon Historical site there.  Although I wanted to visit
   it, we never did get around to it.  Does anyone know which site I'm talking
   about?  Can anyone give me a quick history of the place?

   Just interested.
   Tony
152.2Winter QuartersRIPPLE::KOTTERRIRich (Welcome Back) KotterTue Aug 02 1988 11:2886
    If I am not mistaken, a site known as Winter Quarters is located near
    Omaha. I have not been there, but the history of the place is quite
    interesting. 
    
    The Mormons had built the city of Nauvoo, Illinois, from swamp land,
    which at the time was larger than Chicago, and well appointed as
    compared to other cities in that part of the country. I have been to
    Nauvoo, which is in the process of being restored, and is a very
    interesting place to visit. 
    
    Joseph Smith was arrested on trumped up charges and taken to a nearby
    community of Carthage, which I have also visited, and it, too, is a
    very interesting place to visit to see the jail where Joseph Smith was
    held. While there, mobs attacked the prison and killed Joseph Smith and
    his brother Hyrum. 
    
    The governor promised to prosecute the perpetrators of this injustice,
    but when he asked for cooperation of the local people, they frankly
    told him that they would not, and afterwards the governor succumbed to
    their attitude and stopped pressing for justice to be done. 
    
    The Nauvoo Charter, which had given the city of Nauvoo the right to
    have a militia, was repealed and left the Saints with no protection
    against their enemies. Mobs attacked the homes of the Saints and burned
    them. The sherriff tried to take a stand against the mob law, and he
    was arrested for murder, as a member of the mob had been killed, but
    violence against the Mormons was allowed to go unchecked. 
    
    A council was held in Quincy, Illinois, to take action against the
    Saints. It was concluded that the Saints should depart Illinois, and
    their demand was given to the Saints. President Brigham Young replied
    that the Saints planned to leave the next spring and asked for help in
    renting or selling their properties and to let them live in peace until
    the Spring when they could depart. 
    
    Promises were made, but not kept. No help was forthcoming, instead the
    property fell into others hands after the departure of the Saints, and
    the Saints were not allowed to live in peace until their departure. The
    first of the Saints left Nauvoo in the bitter cold of February 1846,
    and the work of ferrying the Saints across the river continued day and
    night. 
    
    The Mormons travelled west, and when they were near Omaha, in June
    1846, Captain Allen of the US Army came and said he had a requisition
    to get 500 men from the Mormons to help fight the war with Mexico. As
    the Saints were headed for the Rocky Mountains, they were dismayed at
    this request, needing all of their able bodied men for the journey.
    They had appealed to the Federal government for help against the
    mobs, and the corrupt local authorities that allowed the mob actions,
    and had received none.
    
    Even so, President Brigham Young responded that the men would be
    provided. In the matter of a few days, the 500 men were raised, and
    Brigham Young gave them instructions to be obedient, to uphold the
    principles of their religion, and to be the best soldiers in the
    service of the United States. They were to keep neat and clean, to
    avoid swearing and gambling, and to observe chastity, gentility, and
    civility. He told them that if they would follow these instructions,
    they would not be called upon to shed the blood of their fellow men,
    and that they would probably be released from their service within 800
    miles of where the Mormons would be settling. 
    
    Because of the loss of these men, the Saints were not able to continue
    their journey that year. Instead they established Winter Quarters,
    a make shift town to stay in until the next Spring. They concentrated
    on building shelters, putting up hay, and preparing for the winter.
    During the winter they suffered greatly from cold and disease.
    
    The next Spring, on April 5, 1847, they began their departure to
    the West, and continued in their journey, arriving in the valley
    of the Salt Lake on July 24, 1847.
    
    True to the statement of Brigham Young, the Mormon Battalion never did
    see any fighting in the war with Mexico, which was essentially
    concluded before they arrived on the scene, and they were released just
    as Brigham Young had said. They had concluded one of the most
    remarkable infantry marches known, poorly equipped, poorly clothed,
    marching eleven hundred miles through wilderness where nothing but
    savages and wild beasts are found, lacking water, half naked, half fed,
    living on wild animals, they arrived in California in January of 1847. 
        
    There are many other examples of the courage of these pioneer men
    and women, which always inspire me.
    
    Rich
                                                                          
152.3Thanks for the infoNRPUR::BALSAMOSave the WailsTue Aug 02 1988 15:0310
   re: 152.2 <RIPPLE::KOTTERRI>

   >If I am not mistaken, a site known as Winter Quarters is located near
   >Omaha.

       Yes, that sound right; and thanks for the history that went along with
   it.  It was very interesting.  I didn't realize how intense the persecution
   was and yet, the Mormons held together unified.

   Tony
152.4The Kirtland TempleONFIRE::PERMKevin R. OsslerTue Sep 20 1988 12:1270
Hi, everyone. I'm back.

I had been on vacation for a while, traveling among various 
northeastern states. In my travels, I made a point of visiting the 
Kirtland Temple.

For those of you who may not know, the Kirtland Temple was the first 
temple built by the Church, under the direction of Joseph Smith. At 
the time, it was used for solemn meetings, and as a 'School of the
Prophets' - a place where the leaders of the Church could train and
educate other leaders. 

After Joseph Smith's death, the Kirtland Temple was adjudicated by the 
courts as being the property of the Reorganized LDS Church, the 
remnant of the Church that decided to follow the descendants of Joseph 
Smith as the legitimate leaders, rather than Brigham Young and the 
Quorum of Apostles. It is still in the hands of the Reorganized LDS 
church.

It was kind of a disappointing experience to see the Kirtland Temple. 
Obviously, the spirit of the place is nothing at all like an LDS 
Temple. It was just a building, used for meetings, although sparingly 
of late due to its advanced age. The building is kept up very well,
and obviously a lot of money has been spent to keep it up, but it's 
still just a building. They still have the name 'House of the Lord' on 
the front, but there is no sacred purpose for which the building is 
used. It seems it is used mainly for tours.

As many of you know, the saints at the time put everything they had
into the building of the Kirtland Temple. It was a labor of love, and
great sacrifice. The women of the Church gave up much of their scarce
china, so that it could be ground and mixed into the exterior stucco,
so that the walls would have a luminescent shine. Unfortunately, the 
150+ year old stucco had to be removed in recent years. It had
deteriorated so much that it no longer protected the structure from
weather damage. Also, much of the original glass, beams, interior
walls, etc. are no longer the same. 

The original pulpits are still there, however, and I asked the
tourguide to point out the 'curtain' area where the various visions
took place shortly after the dedication of the Temple. The highlight
of the visit was simply being in the same physical space where Jesus
and several other heavenly beings walked and talked to the people of
the Church. 

The tourguide talked about the dedication. It seems that the spirit 
was so strong at the time that there were all sorts of heavenly 
manifestations. A number of people came running from miles around 
because they thought the Temple was on fire. A very anti-Mormon 
local newspaper happily printed a story that night that the Temple had
burned to the ground, for that was the only explanation they had for
the manifestations. But of course, there never was any fire. At least
none of a physical nature. 

The tourguide was friendly and helpful, and cheerfully answered all 
questions. The differences between LDS beliefs and RLDS beliefs were 
many and interesting. I purchased a book discussing those differences, 
written by a high official of the RLDS church who used to be a
missionary for the LDS church and served in Korea. If there is
interest, I'll post some of that info in another note. 

The LDS Church has a large presence in the Kirtland area, as you might 
expect. There is a large Stake Center there, and some other historic 
sites owned and maintained by the LDS Church, including the Newell K. 
Whitney store, and some other places.

All in all, I'd say that it was an interesting and worthwhile
experience, but it wasn't anything I'd go out of my way to see again.

/kevin