| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 85.1 | SIGNS OF THE 2ND COMING | SLSTRN::RONDINA | | Mon Mar 28 1988 00:49 | 18 |
| I would like to open a new note the purpose of which is to share
any significant items, news, happenings, etc. that are a Signs of
the Times, that is something that could be interpreted as preparatory
to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. I am particularly interested
in contemporary happenings, but some persons might want to add
historical items such as the dedication of Israel for the return
of the Jews by Orson Pratt for general interest.
In any case the Second Coming is a fascinating subject and a
discussion of possible signs might be interesting.
NOTE OF CAUTION: I really do not want to debate the issues of Pre-
or Post- Tribulationists. So the purpose is not to convince anyone,
but to offer information and insights on Signs of the Lord's Coming.
Happy Noting,
Paul
|
| 85.2 | Adam-Ondi_Ahman | CACHE::LEIGH | | Thu Apr 14 1988 09:07 | 14 |
| ================================================================================
Note 85.1 56 Years winding up the scene 1 of 4
SLSTRN::RONDINA 8 lines 24-MAR-1988 23:29
-< Missouri Preparations >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to inquire from anyone about Adam-Ondi-Ahman. A recent RM
from Missouri MIssion informed me that the Church had been making
preparations, building apartment buildings, installing sewer systems,
wells, etc. He interepreted this activity as preparatory. Has
anyone heard of or know of similar things happening in the Missouri
Area?
Paul R
|
| 85.3 | Missouri | CACHE::LEIGH | | Thu Apr 14 1988 09:08 | 34 |
| ================================================================================
Note 85.2 56 Years winding up the scene 2 of 4
MIZZOU::SHERMAN "my 2� ..." 28 lines 25-MAR-1988 10:42
-< from a Missourian ... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howdy, Paul!
During the years that I lived in Missouri there has always been
speculation about what goes on with the Church in the Independence
area. The Church is involved in buying real estate up there for
historic as well as investment purposes. Because of the prophecies
and speculation about the future, there has always been a public
interest in this activity with the idea that maybe there's more to
it than investment. But, my own opinion is that it truly is for
investment. Both Kansas City and St. Louis are experiencing rapid
growth. As you may know, Missouri is one of the few states that
can become totally self-sufficient economically. There are still
resources and manpower available for economic growth. As a result,
there have been many predictions of industry expansion in the state.
So, the Church is not the only organization that is doing development
there. As yet, the economic boom has not hit. I believe this is
because Missouri is still a 'closed-shop' state and because the
government in its zeal to reap the benefits of the anticipated growth
has jumped the gun and made taxes and such too high for new industries.
I might mention for the benefit of new readers that the Church is
*very* conservative about investments. The purpose of the investments
is kind of like when David went to Egypt and recommended that the
harvest of the good years be saved for the lean years. By making such
investments during good times the Church can prepare to maintain
itself and the Church welfare system during hard times.
Steve
|
| 85.4 | correction ... | MIZZOU::SHERMAN | Baron of Graymatter | Thu Apr 14 1988 10:39 | 6 |
| re: -.1
As was previously pointed out, I should have said *Joseph* in Egypt.
I had been studying about David at the time...
Steve
|
| 85.5 | Teaching Youth the "Signs" | MDVAX1::DULL | | Wed Apr 27 1988 12:23 | 43 |
| This topic has always intrigued me, and I am always eager to learn
more about it.
A few years back, when I was teaching the 12-13-year-old Sunday
School class, I was teaching from the New Testament manual designed for
this particular age group.
Towards the end of the year, we got to the lesson on the book of
Revelations. I prepared the lesson exactly as outlined in the manual,
and to my surprise - by the time I finished giving the lesson that
Sunday, I had a classful of terrified youth. They were terrified
of what was to come. Needless to say, I felt terrible about the
whole thing.
A year and a half later (I was still a Sunday School teacher), the
youth asked for specific lessons on things such as the plan of
salvation, the signs of the times, applying the gospel in their
everyday lives - at school, home, etc. - and I agreed to prepare
lessons on these topics.
When preparing the "signs of the times" lesson, I recalled vividly
the fear and panic my class had a couple years earlier, and I didn't
want a repeat performance. So I devised a two-week lesson plan
that had the students tell *me* what the signs were instead of me
telling them what they were. I had a series of 5-6 team games that
helped them figure out what these signs were. If they discovered
a sign that they didn't understand, we would discuss it. It was
a real growing experience for all of us. We were able to discuss
the 51 signs as discussed in Bruce R. McConkie's book entitled,
"Mormon Doctrine."
For the class, I prepared a sheet which gave a brief description
of these 51 signs. In Elder McConkie's book, he describes each
sign in depth.
In the next reply, I will list these 51 signs. If further
clarification is needed on any particular sign, we can discuss it
further in this note or in a brand new note.
Tamara
|
| 85.6 | Signs of the Times by Bruce R. McConkie | MDVAX1::DULL | | Wed Apr 27 1988 16:54 | 111 |
| Signs of the Times
As Presented in "Mormon Doctrine" by
Bruce R. McConkie
1. Spirit to be poured out on all flesh
2. Discovery and use of printing
3. Protestant Reformation and Age of Renaissance
4. Discovery of America
5. Establishment of American nation
6. Translation and printing of the Bible
7. Establishment of the U.S. Constitution
8. Latter-day revelation
9. Coming forth of the Book of Mormon
10. Opposition to the Book of Mormon
11. Restoration of the Keys and Priesthood
12. Restoration of the gospel
13. Messenger to precede Second Coming
14. Church and Kingdom set up again
15. Growth of the Church
16. Gathering of Israel
17. Ten tribes to return
18. Times of Gentiles being fulfilled
19. Return of Judah to Jerusalem
20. Jews to begin to believe in Christ
21. Building of Latter-day temples
22. Lord to come suddenly to temple
23. Persecution of the Saints
24. Spirit of Elijah and genealogical research
25. Persecution of the Jews
26. True gospel to be preached in all the world
27. Worldly knowledge to increase
28. Scientific and inventive progress
29. Disease, plague, pestilence to sweep earth
30. Elements in commotion
31. Disasters and calamities to abound
32. Strikes, anarchy, violence to increase
33. Latter-day wickedness
34. Withdrawal of spirit from wicked
35. Peace taken from earth
36. Angels now reaping the earth
37. Wars and rumors of wars
38. Famines, depressions and economic turmoil
39. Apostate darkness covers earth
40. Many false churches in latter days
41. Refusal of man to believe signs
42. Signs on earth and in heaven
43. Lamanites to blossom as the rose
44. The gathering at Adam-ondi-amhan
45. Final great war to attend Second Coming
46. Sorrow and fear precede and accompany Second Coming
47. Fall of the great and abominable church
48. Special mission in Jerusalem of two latter-day prophets
49. Wicked to be burned as stubble
50. Final restitution of all things to be completed
51. Christ to reign personally on earth
End.
|
| 85.7 | Thanks | RIPPLE::KOTTERRI | Rich Kotter | Wed Apr 27 1988 16:57 | 3 |
| Thanks for entering that. It was very interesting.
Rich
|
| 85.8 | How does this bring us closer? | TEMPE1::LARSEN | | Sat Jun 11 1988 19:58 | 18 |
| In posting the note I just entered in the GROWTH topic I
came across an article where people were interviewed about
how they felt about this marvelous revelation now that
we have had it for ten years. Several of the people
interviewed from this area commented on how it was fulfilling
prophecy and felt it brought us that much closer to the
Coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This left me
with a question that I have searched for an answer to but
to no avail. I wonder if some of my Mormon friends (or
anyone familiar with LDS Church history) can tell me:
How does this revelation full fill past prophecy and bring
us that much closer to Christ's coming in Glory? I could
not find anything on this and would appreciate some help.
In His Love,
-gary
|
| 85.9 | Restoration | RIPPLE::KOTTERRI | Rich Kotter | Sun Jun 12 1988 01:43 | 15 |
| Conjecture:
Latter-day Saints believe that in this dispensation of the Gospel, the
Dispensation of the Fulness of Times, all things will be restored that
have ever been had among the children of men. It would seem that
anciently all worthy males held the priesthood. Then there came a time
when apparently only the Levites held the priesthood, along with the
Prophets. And so it is interesting that now the priesthood has again
been made available, not only to Levites and prophets, but to all
worthy males. So this could be regarded as part of the "restoration of
all things" before the Coming of the Lord, thus signifying that we are
that much closer.
Regards,
Rich
|
| 85.10 | Extending Missionary word | FLATTP::MURRAY_RU | | Mon Jun 13 1988 19:53 | 13 |
| One more thought on how this revelation would point toward the second
coming of Christ.
Before the Negro people were able to hold the priesthood the church
was not allowed to actively proselyte among them. Since then we
have had great success in many areas of the world among the black
people. Many prophets have stated that before Christ would return
the gospel must be preached to "All nations, kindreds, tongues,
and peoples." This revelation opened up one more step to the full-
fillment of this prophecy.
Russell Murray
|
| 85.11 | | MIZZOU::SHERMAN | ECADSR::SHERMAN 227-3299, 223-3326 | Tue May 30 1989 10:57 | 80 |
|
With all the news of late about softening relations with the Soviets
and the fight for democracy in China, I've been wondering about how this
fits in with prophecies about the last days. A couple of thoughts come
to mind.
In 3 Ne. 3:2-10, Lachoneus got a letter from Giddianhi, the leader of the
Gadianton robbers. Among other things, Giddianhi was very courteous and
flattering to Lachoneus. In a very persuasive fashion, Giddianhi expresses
his desire to avoid bloodshed and come to a peaceful settlement. He invites
Lachoneus to join with the band as 'not our slaves, but our brethren and
partners of all our substance.' In return for peace, he asks Lachoneus to
'yield up unto this my people, your cities, your lands, and your possessions'
rather than be destroyed.
I begin to wonder, how much strategic advantage do the Soviet leaders get by
negotiating peace instead of the cold war? It seems to me that if the Soviet
leaders had gotten the arms reductions and good PR as being peacemakers during
the cold war instead of now, it would have counted as a major victory for them.
Also, I seem to recall previous cautions about dealing with Soviet leaders
- that they always seem to be wanting peace and negotiating for peace. But, at
the very end you find that they have gotten the upper hand by having not
followed through with the full extent of their commitments or by withdrawing
their offers. It seems strange to me that people want to believe that it
was their natural desire for peace that brought them to current negotiations.
This seems to ignore the fact that the U.S. has been threatening them with
SDI and economic superiority. My personal feeling is that without these, the
Soviet leaders would not have made the apparent progress now being made. A
corollary to this is that if they can get us to abandon these, they will go
away from the negotiating table. It seems to me that Soviet leaders stand to
gain great strategic advantage by using present tactics that include talks of
peace, democracy and internal change.
How much parallel, if any, is there between the approaches of current Soviet
leaders and of Giddianhi? How similar might the approaches become?
I notice that the band of robbers presented themselves as equals or
'brethren.' Yet, it was very apparent that they had a lot of murders and
trickery involved in winning advantage over each other. In a way, they
were slaves unto their leaders. They were also very proud, with probably
all of the wickedness that this pride might imply. I feel that the
Nephites were soothed when the robbers spoke of peace. Perhaps they even
began to imagine that the robbers were just like them, but ignored the fact
that the robbers lived by much different rules of conduct. The robbers did
not enjoy the same level of freedom as the Nephites.
The press today often lauds the Soviet leaders as they begin to allow their
people basic freedoms. But, are we forgetting that their people are still
under a form of slavery? I think that many people nowadays are getting the
impression that the Soviet people are just as free as the people of the U.S..
Certainly, the encouragements for democratization in China by Soviet leaders
fortify such an opinion. This is an ironic situation. The Chinese have
been great adversaries of the Soviets for a long time. Does preaching
democracy to the people of China actually weaken the country by fostering
internal turmoil? I note that President Bush was very careful to try to avoid
inciting riot in China in expressing our support for the democratic movement
within that country. I find it interesting.
There has been talk of the cold war being over. Yet, it was only recently
that a number of Soviets were expelled from Britain because of the excessive
amount of espionage activity going on. This would not have made the news
except that the Soviets responded with similar expulsions, drawing attention
to their reasons for doing so.
Please pardon me, but I remain highly suspicious of the motives of Soviet
leaders. I have the feeling that, like Giddianhi, they are using the message
of peace to try to win strategic advantage. I feel that their root motives are
basically unchanged. This is not the first time that they have shown to the
world that they were changing for the better and that we could now talk with
them about peace. But, perhaps it is the most successful from a strategic
point of view.
As to softening relations with both China and Russia, it seems to me that we
may be seeing further fulfillment of the prophecies of countries opening up.
I have great empathy for the people of both countries. I sorrow at the
corruptions in government that both peoples endure. I hope that the will of
the peoples might have greater influence.
Steve
|
| 85.12 | trying to stop the downslide of the soviet empire | NORGE::CHAD | Ich glaube Ich t�te Ich h�tte | Tue May 30 1989 13:04 | 21 |
| Re: soviets
I'm of the opinion that it is not so much a desire for peace that the soviets
have but rather the realization that the soviet union is falling by the wayside,
economically, politically (that one's debatable) and as world citizens
(the Environment there is so bad from what I've read that it makes our
environment look like the garden of eden (figuratively speaking)). The
people there are fed up with the sinking SoL (Standard of Living) and
quality of life. The leaders there want to remain in power and need to appease
the people and make life better for them, etc etc etc.
I'm not convinced that they (the soviets) have a grand master plan to take
over the world by preaching peace (though I'm sure that the thoughts
enter their minds). I think they are trying to fix their internal problems
and will then re-commit themselves to external problems like taking over
the world. Any advantage they get by preaching peace is probably thought
of as a secondary return and not the prime reason for it all.
whew
Chad
|
| 85.13 | More signs are upon us. | BSS::RONEY | Charles Roney | Tue Dec 05 1989 14:25 | 35 |
|
With the economic collapse of the European Communist governments,
the principles of stable economic capitalism looks pretty good.
But this is just the means with which God is using to bring us
closer to the second coming. In looking at the new freedom
movements in eastern Europe, we see states like East Germany,
Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia
emerging from behind the "iron curtain." We can look forward
to increased missionary effort in those countries. But the major
breakthrough is Russia. With a promise of religious freedoms to
come, we can now go freely in Russia (I hope).
Look at what has happened in the past two or three months:
Great openings in previously Communist countries.
That great symbol of repression and human injustice,
the Berlin Wall, has fallen.
The whole Czechoslovakian government has denounced the
1968 invasion of the Warsaw Pact armies. Now Russia and
all of the Warsaw Pact nations have denounced it!
Israel is "discussing" about rebuilding Solomon's Temple
in Jerusalem.
Columbian problems with the drug lords are really the
same as the Nephites had with the Gadianton robbers.
In just a few months the Lord has opened up a large part of the world.
How long will it take for China? When it does, then we will indeed
be taking the Gospel to the ends of the earth! I find it extremely
fascinating and exciting to see the rapid advancements after plodding
along so slowly for so long a time now.
|
| 85.14 | Very curious | BAGELS::WILLIAMS | Bryan Williams | Tue Dec 05 1989 17:44 | 3 |
| Where have you heard about rebuilding the temple?
Bryan
|
| 85.15 | | BSS::RONEY | Charles Roney | Thu Dec 07 1989 15:21 | 18 |
|
RE: <<< Note 107.13 by BAGELS::WILLIAMS "Bryan Williams" >>>
> Where have you heard about rebuilding the temple?
Bryan,
It was an article in the Colorado Springs Gazette. I tried
to find it, but the cub scouts took all the papers. It should have
been in the last week or so.
As I recall, it did not go any further than a "discussion"
because the Moslems have some stuff or buildings (I can't remember)
on the site that they consider Holy . But at least Israel was
looking at it. I think it will be quite interesting to see how the
temple will be built. Maybe that will be the reason Jerusalem is
over run just before the second coming.
Charles
|
| 85.16 | | DNEAST::STTHOMAS_KEV | | Thu Dec 07 1989 16:07 | 20 |
| It's going to be mighty interesting to see the developments in Israel
concerning the temple. The Moslem's consider the Dome of the Rock to
be a holy shrine, this is where the ancient Jewish temple was located.
I would believe that any action on the part of the Jewish people to
rebuild the temple would indeed be met with many angry Moslems. I
believe that something would have to happen to somehow clear the way to
rebuild, whether it be war or disaster that destroys the site, I don't
know. But, to be sure, It cannot be too far in the future, and...
given the rapidity of events occurring in Eastern Europe, circumstances
could change rapidly in the Middle East, which could bring this very
event about. Odd, the feeling I get is that even though the prospects
of freedom look brighter for millions in the world, these changes fit
into the sceme of things, ie., end time prophesies. There will be more
terrible wars and these things will occur preceding the Saviour's
return. I pray that we don't become lulled too much and that we all
are personally and spiritually prepared as a people for these times
and for His return.
Kevin
|
| 85.17 | | ECAD2::SHERMAN | ECADSR::SHERMAN 227-3299, 223-3326 | Thu Dec 07 1989 16:32 | 7 |
| It is interesting that the Jews and the Moslems hold the same things
Holy and may be willing to fight to the death over them. Seems
to conflict with the intuitive idea that good guys and bad guys
(whomever that may be, I won't commit) hold different things to
be Holy.
Steve
|
| 85.18 | More on the Temple | CASPRO::PRESTON | Confront reality... | Fri Dec 08 1989 13:14 | 20 |
| The desire to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem is not a new development.
There are those wo have wanted to do so for years, but as Kevin pointed
out, the Moslem mosque, Dome of the Rock, occupies part of the site of
the original Temple, and it would have to be removed (horrors!) before
the Temple could be rebuilt. Some zealots have even considered blowing
up the mosque (clandestinely, of course), but so far have been restrained
from doing so.
There would be no surer means of infuriating the entire Arab world than
for Israel to do something to that mosque, especially if it was for the
purpose of rebuilding the Jewish temple.
Ed
I think it's indicative of the kind of prophecy that God often deals in,
to have seemingly impossible prophecies come to pass.
Ed
|
| 85.19 | | DNEAST::STTHOMAS_KEV | | Fri Dec 08 1989 13:26 | 9 |
| re: -17
I agree with your comments. The moment when man decides that it cannot
happen, the Lord will make the seemingly impossible, happen.
Even though latter day Middle East prophesies haven't been the main course
on LDS plates here maybe we should have a note devoted to this area.
What do you think, Ed?
|
| 85.21 | Millennium vs Final Judgement | BSS::RONEY | Charles Roney | Thu May 10 1990 16:33 | 51 |
|
I think there is some confusion over the concept of the
millennium and the final judgement. Also, there are sometimes
terms, e.g. spirit prison and damnation, used in either the wrong
concept or that might have two different meanings depending on the
concepts used. I would like to summarize here what I have come to
understand from my research.
First it should be understood that "the end of the world" and
"the end of the earth" are two different concepts each relating
to the millennium and the final judgement, respectively. The term
"world" should be defined as "the society of mankind upon the
earth." (This can be verified with Webster.) The point is that the
earth is differentiated from mankind, or the world. The reason is
that when the Savior comes again, which is termed the second coming,
it will be the end of the world and the start of the millennium,
and not the end of the earth, which happens at the final judgement
at the end of the millennium.
Now, the world has been created both physically and spiritually,
and both are tied to the earth. The spiritual world, or spirit
world, is a world for the departed spirits which inhabited the
physical world. It is also the place of hell where the devil and
his angles were cast down out of heaven. It was divided into two
areas by a deep, impassable gulf. Hell on one side and paradise on
the other. The entire spirit world is often referred to as the
"spirit prison" even though it contains in the hell area a section
that is a "spirit prison" which was made in the days of Noah. The
devil has his kingdom in hell where he has total dominion or control
over the spirits residing there, except in the "spirit prison."
When a person "dies", there is a judgement as to which place
they should go - hell and in or out of the "spirit prison" or
paradise. At the second coming there will be another such
preliminary judgement made for the new terrestrial state upon the
earth during the millennium - either the physical or spiritual world.
At the end of the millennium is the final judgement. At this point
each person will be assigned, or rewarded, with one of four kingdoms.
Three kingdoms are of glory and one is of outer darkness. Also,
death and hell will be thrown into outer darkness. The spirit world
on the earth will be gone, and the earth will be made over into the
celestial kingdom where Heavenly Father will reside. All persons
except the devil and his angles will be resurrected. (They never
had a physical body in the first place.)
The celestial kingdom is the highest kingdom of reward and it
contains those of God's children who are to be exalted as Gods
and the angles who will serve them. In the eternal perspective of
things, all the multitudes of angles in the celestial kingdom and
all of the multitudes in the kingdoms of the terrestrial, telestial,
and outer darkness are considered to be "damned."
|
| 85.20 | Interpretation of Mid-East Events | RHODES::RONDINA | | Wed Jan 23 1991 15:05 | 7 |
| We have not had much discussion on this topic for some time. But,
with all the goings on in the Mid-east, I was wondering what might
be some interpretations of this war. Is this a preface to Ammagedon?
What are any facts or opinions you might have?
|
| 85.22 | rapture? | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 20 1993 12:23 | 5 |
| Does the LDS Church believe in a "Rapture" as pointed to in I
Thessalonians 4:17 by the Christian Church?
thanks,
Mike
|
| 85.23 | Rapture only the beginning... | BSS::RONEY | Charles Roney | Thu May 20 1993 12:56 | 19 |
| LDS doctrine believes that the "rapture" is not the end of the
earth but the end of the world and start of the millennium. It
can also be stated that at this time the earth will transition
from a telestial law and glory to a terrestrial law and glory.
At the end of the millennium it will the transition to a celestial
law and glory (see D&C 88).
The "rapture" will occur at the end of the world which ushers in
the beginning of the millennium, which is a thousand years of the
seventh seal. Revelations 7:4-8 define 12,000 from each of the
twelve tribes of Israel that are *sealed* to be with Christ at
the start of this era. These 144,000 are the seed to start the
millennium, which is where all things are prepared for the end
of the earth and the beginning of eternity. I would refer also
to D&C 29:11,22-28. D&C 77:9-12 and D&C 88 have more details on
the seven seals and the 144,000 as does D&C 133:18.
Charles
|
| 85.24 | | ECADSR::SHERMAN | Steve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26a | Thu May 20 1993 13:47 | 10 |
| re: .22
To which "Christian Church" are you referring? Is this a general
statement or is it with reference to a particular denomination?
Not all churches generally accepted as "Christian" believe in the
same interpretation of I Thessalonians 4:17. The KJV does not use
nor define the term "rapture." It is also not found in Smith's
Bible Dictionary.
Steve
|
| 85.25 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri May 21 1993 11:34 | 7 |
| Re: .23
So you basically subscribe to a post-tribulation rapture?
Re: .24
The word rapture is derived from the Latin translation of that verse.
|