[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference tecrus::mormonism

Title:The Glory of God is Intelligence.
Moderator:BSS::RONEY
Created:Thu Jan 28 1988
Last Modified:Fri Apr 25 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:460
Total number of notes:6198

76.0. "The Fall of Adam" by SCOMAN::SHELBY () Mon Feb 29 1988 05:03

    BEAR WITH ME I'M NEW AT THIS BUT HERE GOES NOTHING.
        IN THE BOOK OF MORMON IN 2 NEPHI CHAPTER 2:VERSE 19-25 OR THERE
     ABOUTS WE FIND A COMMENT ABOUT ADAMS TRANGRESSION AND THAT IF HE
     HAD NOT TRANSGRESSED THEN HE AND EVE WOULD HAVE REMAINED IN THE
     GARDEN OF EDEN AND WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD ANY CHILDREN. YET IN THE
    KING JAMES VERSION OF THE BIBLE IN THIRD GENESIS THE LORD GOD COMMANDS
    ADAM AND EVE TO MULTIPLY AND REPLENISH THE EARTH. 
         NOW MY QUESTION OR SHOULD I SAY MY WIFES IS. IS THERE ANY
    SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION IN EITHER BOOK TO SUBSTANIATE THESE STATEMENTS
    OR DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYKIND OF AN EXPLAINATION ?
                                THANK 
                                  BOB
    P.S. BY THE WAY I'M L.D.S./MORMON
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
76.2Mormon's on Sinful NatureNRPUR::BALSAMOWhere'er you go,there you shall be!Mon Feb 15 1988 15:2122
    
   From Allen's note "My Beliefs as a Mormon"

   re: 4.45 <FAST::LEIGH>

   >The erroneous belief that man has inherited an inherent desire to sin
   >(sinful nature) can be traced back to Augustine the Catholic Bishop of
   >Hippo in the fourth and fifth century A.D.  and is not taught by the
   >Bible.

       This is a new one on me.  Are you then saying that Sin in a learned
   behavior? (In that case, it would be possible for someone to live a sinless
   live if he were sheltered from those who would teach him to be sinful.)  Or
   are you saying that man in simply predestined to sin?  (In this case, there
   would be no free will.)
   
   In Christ,
   Tony
   
    
    
76.3Sin is our choosing to follow SatanCACHE::LEIGHMon Feb 15 1988 17:3139
Re .0

Hi Tony,

I just posted three more replies to 4.* that pertain to your questions.

    4.46     The Atonement of Jesus Christ
    4.47     What Happens to Children Who Die
    4.48     The Book of Mormon Teaches The Salvation of Children

Please read these in conjunction with 

    4.41     Our Freedom to Choose
    4.42     The Book of Mormon Teaches Free Agency
    4.43     Latter-day Revelation: Spheres of Freedom
    4.44     The Fall of Adam
    4.45     Born in Sin


>   >The erroneous belief that man has inherited an inherent desire to sin
>   >(sinful nature) can be traced back to Augustine the Catholic Bishop of
>   >Hippo in the fourth and fifth century A.D.  and is not taught by the
>   >Bible.
>
>       This is a new one on me.  Are you then saying that Sin in a learned
>   behavior? (In that case, it would be possible for someone to live a sinless
>   live if he were sheltered from those who would teach him to be sinful.)  Or
>   are you saying that man in simply predestined to sin?  (In this case, there
>   would be no free will.)
   
What I am saying is that sin is the result of our willful choices to follow
Satan.  If a man were able to make 100% correct choices and always perfectly
follow God, he would be without sin, but would still need the atonement of
Jesus Christ to remove his spiritual death; he would be as a child in that
case.  However, the Bible assures us that everyone (who is accountable) has
sinned, that is everyone has made incorrect choices and has followed Satan to
some extent.

Allen
76.1CACHE::LEIGHMon Feb 29 1988 07:2743
Hi Bob,

In case you haven't already read it, Note 4.44 discusses in detail the
Fall of Adam and may be useful as background information.

In 4.44, I explained from Biblical scriptures that Adam and Eve were
immortal while in the Garden of Eden, since death had not come into the
world.  Apparently immortal people can not have mortal children, because
after they had left the Garden, Eve rejoiced that they had become
mortal and could now have children.

    And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to
    prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed
    be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are
    opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh
    I shall see God.

    And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were
    it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never
    should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and
    the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

    And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things
    known unto their sons and their daughters.  (P of G P, Moses 5:10-12)

The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith that from the perspective of God, everything
is spiritual.  That is, we think of things being either temporal or spiritual,
but to God every thing is spiritual.

    Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I
    gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him,
    for my commandments are spiritual; and they are not natural nor temporal,
    neither carnal nor sensual.  (D & C 29:35

This means that when considering things of God, we have to have a "long-range"
viewpoint and consider them in an eternal context.  Adam and Eve were commanded
to have children, but that commandment could not be obeyed unless they chose
to become mortal.  That choice was made by Adam, as Lehi said.

    Adam fell *that* men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
    (2 Nephi 2:25, emphasis mine).

Allen