Conference tecrus::mormonism

    Good topic!
    
    My extended family consists of my parents and six brothers and their
    wives and children. All are active members of the church, with the
    exception of two brothers. In Allen's terms they are, in a way,
    minority members of the family. 
    
    One of these brothers seldom participates in family events, such
    as Thanksgiving dinner, Christmas gatherings, family picnics, etc.
    I think we love him very much. We strive to make him feel welcome,
    and to not make an issue of his lifestyle. He doesn't make it an
    issue, either, but shows by his lack of participation that such
    family functions are not a high priority to him. That's ok, too,
    but it saddens me, because I would like my kids to know their uncle,
    and I would like to be able to see him more often, and find out
    what's important to him. Of course, I would like to see him accept
    the Gospel in his life, too, but only if that's what he comes to
    desire, and not just because *we* want it for him.
    
    The approach we are trying to take is, "if he won't come to us, let's
    go to him". I call him more often than before, just to talk. He likes
    to hunt and fish, so I'm going to do that with him. And I'm going to
    think of other ways to make him feel comfortable in being with us. He
    lives some distance away, but we try to go see him more often. 
    
    Hopefully, we can build a stronger family relationship with him
    that will be a benefit in all our lives.
    
    Rich

    I can be classified as a "minority" member on two counts:  I'm the
    only member in my family and I live in a non-LDS community (despite
    the growth).
    
    In re to my family, the Church is rarely discussed.  The day after
    my baptism, my father pulled me into the livingroom to have a 2 hour
    discussion with me re my decision to join the Church.  The only
    two points that he made that I can remember is that 1) I was just
    going through a phase and 2) "Either you're right or I'm right.
    We'll have to wait and see . . ."   I completely agreed with him
    on point number 2.  We have never discussed the Church since that
    conversation.  He has neither been positive nor negative about my
    involvement with the Church.
    
    When I am with my family, I live my standards.  I don't make any
    exceptions for them.  And in return, they continue to live their
    standards.  I have never felt any pressure to defend myself, and
    I think I can honestly say, that they have never felt like I was
    judging/condemning/degrading them for their lifestyle.  
    
    I pretty much live by the philosophy, "I'll do my thing.  You do your 
    thing."  It doesn't really matter to me if I don't agree with another's 
    philosophy or standard of living because it's *their* life - not
    mine.  They have to decide how they are going to live; I can't make
    the decision for them.  I am accountable for me - and that's it.
    
    I seem to carry out this attitude in all my relationships with others.
    I do my thing - which is living the gospel to the best of my ability
    - and they do their thing - whatever that may be.  I respect other's
    beliefs, and in return, I hope that they can respect mine.  They
    usually do.
    
    I don't know if this is what you were looking for, Allen, but this
    is how *I* handle being different.
    
    Tamara

    A participant of this conference who wishes for the time being to
    remain anonymous has asked me to post this note in his behalf. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            
    This is a very hard note for me to write, no one likes to admit faults.
    We move from a small farming community in the central valley of
    California. The ward we came from had about 200 or so members in it. We
    moved to a suburb of Atlanta that had approx. the same number of people
    in but the average income was double if not triple the average income
    of the community in Ca. The problem is in the ward that we moved into.
    The ward is at least twice the size and the average income is probably
    at least $50-75k with several millionaires. Although we hold the same
    Sacrament meeting, Sunday School and Priesthood meetings, it's just not
    the same. I guess what it boils down to is that both my wife and I
    don't feel the same spirit that we did in the old ward. Also neither
    one of us has made any real friends as we both had done in previous
    wards. 

    One of my co-workers is also a member of this ward. He had also lived
    in Salt Lake City for several years. He describes the members as having
    a "Salt Lake" attitude. In other words, since we don't smoke or drink
    or fool around our only vice left is material. Please don't flame on me
    because of this. I have only been to Salt Lake for 3 days and therefore
    have no feeling for the members attitudes at all. I am just trying to
    understand the lack of spirit that we both feel. 

    We have been attending the same ward here for a year so it's not like
    we're new to the people. In Sunday School last Sunday the topic was one
    of "what do we not do enough of" and "what do we do too much of".
    Surprisingly most members agreed that they thought too much of material
    things, but no one wanted to reach out to either members or nonmembers
    or make any other type of commitments. 

    Please don't get me wrong in thinking that I expect a solution to my
    problem. I guess that I am just looking more for suggestions to feel
    the spirituality that MUST exist in this ward. The problem is so
    serious that we are considering going to another ward in a small town
    several miles away. Or worst case is just not being active in the
    church until we either move in the area or a job transfer comes along. 

    Thanks for your input 
  

    
    
    re: anon.
    
    I have some idea of how you feel because my family had a similar 
    experience. We moved into a Ward that fit the description that 
    you describe. My wife was quite upset about it and we struggled
    to met people and make friends.  Funny thing happened though.
    We ended up planning to leave the area, but when the other members 
    found we were leaving there was an outpouring of love and support. We
    found that there were many loving people there and the spirit was
    strong. I think, in our case that we gave the spirit a chance to 
    work through us, and listened for the spirit in others. Funny thing,
    wealth and materialism played a part in this ward, too. But mem-
    bers found it in their heart to help us when we needed it. 
    Unfortunately, only upon leaving the ward did we realise the friends we
    had there. The spirit there, indeed, was the same spirit that is
    in LDS wards throughout the world. When one dedicates their life
    in following the example of the Saviour, the spirit is there. What we
    did was finally listen for it, rather than complain about the perceived
    lack of it, as we did when we first arrived. We only then began to 
    enjoy the blessings that were there.
    
    The bottom line to me is that ultimately we ourselves are responsible 
    for bringing the spirit into our lives, indeed, into our wards too.
    
    On speaking assignment in another ward, Sunday I visited a small ward
    (approx. 100 active) and observed the actions of members. I was
    impressed with what I saw, the spirit were strong there, you could feel
    it. Later I attended meetings in my own home ward. I felt the same
    spirit there. Even though there was a different mix of members in the two 
    wards there was still that dedication and committment to the gospel.
    
    
    I've never attended church in Utah, or California, or Georgia, for 
    that matter, but as long as the church is there, there will be the
    spirit. We just have to be receptive to it.
    
    Kevin
       

    It's for this reason that I pay particular head to the advice of the
    leadership in Salt Lake, aside from it often being inspired.  I figure 
    that they are probably at the forefront of the problems of the membership.
    Stiff-neckedness has no place among the Saints, but the B of M is
    rampant with examples of this happening as the Saints prosper.  
    
    I know of no ready solution.  I've only been in a ward like that a few
    times.  I didn't allow it to bother me.  Instead, I sought out
    opportunities to be of Christian service (like welfare projects,
    helping folks to move, doing landscaping projects, home teaching, the
    "regular" sort of thing).  That's where I found true, close friends and 
    fellowship.  Keeping focused on the right things helps a lot.
    
    I have a friend that is from that area and has described a similar
    thing.  With the new Church budget program, affluence will probably
    have less capability of tarnishing the spirit of a Ward.  I think that 
    steps are now being taken to improve the situation there and in other 
    parts of the world.
    
    
    Steve

	RE: Note 301.0 	"What if you're in a ward where you don't fit?"

	Wow.  Do I ever remember when I left the church in California.
	It was a real shock, but not even with the trouble that is in your
	ward.  Everyone here is poor like me.

	However, I have been fighting Satan for the past ten years with
	inactivity and other problems.  What I have learned is this :

		o You, personally, have to be committed to God in your
		  actions and desires.

		o Your family must also have the same desires.  Work within
		  this environment to develop a deep love of the gospel, and
		  be determined to do as Joshua did - "But as for me and my
		  family, we will follow God."

		o No matter what happens, do not voice your discontentment.
		  Go to your Heavenly Father with your problems.

		o Read the Ensign and scriptures.  Work on developing your
		  own strong testimony and witnesses from God.

		o Determine what you can do in regards to gospel obedience
		  and then do it.  Review what Paul said about "putting on
		  the whole armor of God."

		o Do not compare yourself to others in the ward.  You, and
		  not they, will determine your salvation.  Look to Christ
		  and His appointed leadership for example.

		o Do your home teaching in the proper spirit of charity, and
		  work on your relationship with your Heavenly Father.

		o Develop your own spirit to take into the meetings.

	Charles	(Better now but still fighting hard against the world of Satan)

I think living in a Ward in which there are wide differences among the people
is quite stressful.  

I've seen Mutual programs in a Ward in which half of the kids came from
wealthy families and half from poorer homes.  All of the kids were basically
active LDS, but due to their backgrounds they had different ideas about their
Mutual activities.  The wealthy kids wanted to go sailing in Bermuda for a
superactivity, while the other kids knew that was out of the question.  The
wealthy kids wanted to use Mutual night for excursions to the nearby ice
cream parlor (each kid paying his way) while the other kids hoped Mutual
would be "free".  

Similar differences occurred in the Relief Society, such as the type of menu
and table decorations for a dinner.  Do you go with "prime rib" or "bread
and milk" so to speak.  Do you go with paper table cloths or linen.  Plastic
glasses or china.  Stainless steel or silver.

No easy answers....

The leaders can try and get the people to communicate with each other and
come up with solutions acceptable to all, but cultural differences are hard
to overcome.  The situations I described involved people who were humble
members but different.  An even worse situation is when the wealthier people
become snobbish.

Intellectual differences are another source of stress; people talk words
but do not understand each other very well.

Allen

    We had a similar experience to yours moving from Colorado Springs
    to Merrimack New Hampshire.  Not only are there many well off people
    in our ward, with the increased materialism, the east is different 
    than the west.
    
    We have also had several disasters since coming here that have made
    it even more difficult.  All in all it has been a time of testing
    for us.
    
    We found that staying active in the church, serving where we could,
    and trying to strengthen our families has helped us to feel good
    about our time here, and our testimonies have been strengthened.
    
    The scriptures are full of examples of people who experienced times
    of lonliness, and even isolation from friends, only to redouble
    their efforts and gain strength through personal communion with
    the Lord.(Abraham, Moses, Elija, Christ, Paul, Lehi, etc...)
    
    "Be thou humble, and the Lord thy God shall lead thee by the hand,
    and give thee answers to thy prayers."
                                                                
    Seek guidance by study, and also by prayer.
    
    Jim
    

    OK, so I will be the voice of dissent.  I SUFFERED 2 years in a ward in
    Salt Lake in which we were the outsiders, I from the East and my wife
    from England.  The rest of the ward, all 4 blocks of it, included,
    large inter bred families that had arrived in the valley about 1880. 
    So they felt no need to socialize with each other since either their
    large families or the inter connections between families did it all.
    
    As outsiders with no family in SLC, we looked to the ward for our
    socialization needs.  That never really happened. So after 2 miserable
    years, we moved houses.
    
    My advice:  If you find you are in a ward that does not work for you,
    go to a ward that does. If your social, mental and spiritual life is
    seriously impacted in a negative way, then do it.  BUT, only after you
    have made a serious attempt in making your current ward work out for
    you.
    
    This is my advice and you know what they say about free advice.
    
    Paul
    

One principle that we all have to remember is that *we* are responsible for
our own lives.  The Lord isn't responsible.  Our Bishop isn't responsible.
The other members in the Ward aren't responsible.  We are.

I agree with Paul.  If we've really tried our best to fit in with our Ward
but haven't succeeded, then I think we should either change houses and move,
or try and arrange with the Priesthood leaders to attend a different Ward
(probably difficult to arrange).

It's the same as with our employment; if we are unhappy with our job and have
really tried to be successful with it , then we should change it.  Same as
with our kids in school.

Of course, these comments are made within the context of personal fasting and
prayer to find out what the Lord would have us do.

Allen

    Are you assigned/required/restricted/you-know-what-I-mean to attend 
    a particular ward because of where you live?
    
    Ed
    

    LDS congregations (called wards) are determined according to a
    particular geography, most of the time.  But there are also wards that
    have a special focus, such as Chiness, Cambodian, Spanish, University. 
    But, generally, a Latter-day Saint attends the ward that covers the
    geography he lives in.  IN Salt Lake I had one ward that covered  only 
    4 city blocks.
    
    Paul

    re: .8
    
    Hi Ed!
    
    We are not restricted from attending any ward of our choosing, how-
    ever we are encouraged and expected to attend the ward where our
    membership records are held.
    
    In our ward we have people whose membership records are held in an
    adjacent ward. However when seeking a temple recommend or tithing
    settlement, they need to speak to the Bishop who has responsibility
    for the membership records. When one considers these people for 
    callings, the Bishop whose ward holds the membership records needs 
    to be consulted. We had one member who attended our ward for years. 
    Geographically, he belonged to our adjacent ward. Last year he was
    called into the Elder's quorum presidency of that ward. He accepted
    the calling, and now he and his family attends his "home" ward.
    
    In our ward there have been some pain associated with families leaving
    the ward due to these reasons, especially where the children are
    concerned. We have tried, whenever possible, to be sensitive to 
    special circumstances. Teens who attend the same highschool, yet live
    in the other ward are a point of concern. We try to ensure that the 
    families' well-being is provided for. 
    
    Sometimes personalities play a part. Perhaps, one gets "mad" at the 
    bishop because of some perceived injustice, or maybe at another member.
    Is that cause to pack up and shop for a "better ward". Bishoprics need
    to be mindful of members' motivations, and work to resolve those things
    and whenever possible, encourage members to attend within their ward 
    boundaries.
    
    Kevin
    

    what he said ...
    
    More, we also have some who attend out ward and live in the boundaries
    of other wards.  And, we have some who live in our boundaries and
    attend other wards.  In some cases, the records have been transferred.
    These are all exceptions, but that's the way the Church runs.  To some
    it seems we have all these rules and that it's all tightly structured.  
    But, those who really get to know the system find that there is a lot
    of flexibility for Bishops to call shots as they feel inspired and to
    be supported in these decisions by those "higher up".  This is one of 
    those situations where people can become confused about the "Church" 
    being the people, the Gospel or the hierarchy.  It boils down to the 
    Lord doing whatever is best for His children.
    
    Steve

    Right off the top of my head I can think of two instances where people
    live in one ward boundaries and attend another ward.  If there is a
    single's ward in a stake then most of the members will probably be single
    members who live throughout the stake.  Another situation is like
    what we have in our ward.  We have the responsibility to provide for
    needs of the deaf members in this area.  This means any deaf member who
    lives in one of the two stakes in our town gets to attend our ward.  
    
    scott

    I was recently re-reading *The Screwtape Letters* by C.S. Lewis
    and found Chapter XVI particularly interesting in the light of this 
    topic.  For those who have never yet encountered C.S. Lewis, or
    this book:  C.S. Lewis was an adult convert to the Church of England,
    and became a noted Christian apologist.  He died in the 1960s (I believe).
    
    The character, Screwtape, is a devil (or evil spirit) who has been
    promoted to a bureaucratic position after successfully tempting
    several human beings to their destruction.  His nephew, Wormwood,
    is currently serving on earth as a tempter.  The advice written
    to nephew from uncle is necessarily diabolical, the patient referred
    to is the human soul Wormwood wishes to corrupt, and the Enemy referred
    to is God.
    
    From Chapter XVI:
    
    "My dear Wormwood:
    
    "You mentioned casually in your last letter that the patient has
    continued to attend one church, and one only, since he was converted,
    and that he is not wholly pleased with it.  May I ask what you are
    about?  Why have I no report on the causes of his fidelity to the
    parish church?  Do you realise that unless it is due to indifference
    it is a very bad thing?  Surely you know that if a man can't be
    cured of churchgoing, the next best thing is to send him all over
    the neighbourhood looking for the church that "suits" him until
    he becomes a taster or connoisseur of churches.
    
    "The reasons are obvious.  In the first place the parochial
    organisation should always be attacked, because, being a unity of
    place and not of likings, it brings people of different classes
    and psychology together in the kind of unity the Enemy desires.
    The congregational principle, on the other hand, makes each church
    into a kind of club, and finally, if all goes well, into a coterie
    or faction.  In the second place, the search for a "suitable" church
    makes the man a critic where the Enemy wants him to be a pupil.
    What He wants of the layman in church is an attitude which may,
    indeed, be critical in the sense of rejecting what is false or
    unhelpful, but which is wholly uncritical in the sense that it does
    not appraise - does not waste time in thinking about what it rejects,
    but lays itself open in uncommenting, humble receptivity to any
    nourishment that is going.  (You see how grovelling, how unspiritual,
    how irredeemably vulgar He is!)  This attitude, especially during
    sermons, creates the condition (most hostile to our whole policy)
    in which platitudes can become really audible to a human soul. 
    There is hardly any sermon, or any book, which may not be dangerous
    to us if it is received in this temper.  So pray bestir yourself
    and send this fool the round of the neighbouring churches as soon
    as possible.  Your record up to date has not given us much satisfaction."
                                                             

    Nice reference.  I read that book in one afternoon.  Couldn't put it
    down.
    
    Steve

    To add to some of Penny's excellent thoughts, I also feel that the new
    budget program will help this situation.  In addition, there is a new
    preventive maintenance program starting that will help.  Basically, it
    requires that members take on a bigger responsibility for the
    buildings.  This includes picking up after themselves, being more
    responsible for setting up and taking down, and taking some of the
    responsibilities for the grounds.  I find that taking part in such
    service activities helps us all to come back down to earth from our
    proud positions.
    
    One other thing, as Stake Physical Facilities rep I have opportunity to
    work with some of the excellent members who provide professional
    custodial attention for the buildings in the Boston Stake.  You can bet
    that these humble servants encounter stiff-neckedness first hand.  
    I expect that if I am some day fortunate enough to enter the gates of 
    heaven, these good saints will be there to greet me.
    
    Steve

    I agree with what Dave is saying.  We are taught from the scriptures
    that when we are offended to go to the person who offends us in private
    and try to deal with it on that plane.  If that doesn't work then get
    some witnesses and confront them.  If that doesn't work then tell it to
    the church and count him as a heathen.  I guess the question to ask is
    whether or not this scripture can be applied by us today.  It almost
    sounds like it is for the leaders who are judges of Israel.  I found it
    in Matthew ch. 17 or 18.  Any thoughts or ideas?
    
    scott

    Penny and David, and all, really! thanks so much for sharing your
    thoughts and feelings.  Special thanks, David, for telling us of
    the brother who didn't forgive.  When I was newly converted and
    reading the Doctrine and Covenants for the first time, I was struck
    by verse 10 in the 64th Section:
    
    I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is
    required to forgive all men.
    
    As I've read along in this topic, I was reminded of that scripture
    and the truthfulness of it, so I went back and found more than I
    remembered!  
    
    Section 64
    
    8	My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one 
    	another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for
    	this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened.
        
    9	Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another;
    	for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth 
    	condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the 
    	greater sin.
    
    10	I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it
    	is required to forgive all men.
    
    We had a wonderful Compassionate Service/Social Relations lesson 
    in Relief Society last Sunday: "We, Being Many, Are One", with a 
    reference to 1 Corinthians 12:20,
    
    But now are they many members, yet but one body.
    
    Our, teacher (virtuous, lovely, praiseworthy and of good report - we are
    blessed indeed to have her guidance) helped us open our minds and hearts
    to the dangers of pride - remember President Benson's message to
    us on that great evil?  As our teacher and the sisters shared
    experiences and thoughts, I felt humbled and grateful to be a part
    of this family, to know my sisters and brothers within and
    without the Church are brothers and sisters in fact.
    
    I'm one of the Spiritual Living teachers in our Ward and next Sunday
    it is again my turn to teach.  It's an unscheduled Sunday, i.e.
    one on which I am to prepare and teach from a conference talk, rather
    than a lesson from the manual.  Late in December, our Presidency asked 
    me to consider teaching about the importance of unity and love.  These 
    are Godly women, worthy to receive inspiration about the needs of the 
    sisters in our ward boundaries, and I was happy to accept their guidance.
    
    I felt drawn to the May 89 Ensign (containing the talks from the
    159th Annual General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of
    Latter Day Saints, April 1-2, 1989) and found Elder Royden
    G. Derrick's talk, "The Way to Perfection" (pages 76-77).  In it
    I have found the lesson that the Lord would have me teach - how
    do I know?  Revelation!  I could hardly write fast enough to note
    the references that came into my mind.  Then, a few days later,
    this topic opened up and through it I have become more aware of
    widespread feelings of dis-unity.
    
    Many things I've read, many conversations I've had, have shown me that 
    in some ways we [US of] American Saints must strive against our
    culture in order to live the Gospel.  Our government grants us freedom
    of religion but much in our culture tempts us step by step into
    bondage of possessions, debt, and pride.
    
    Wow, I'm off and running - or at least off, you say? :)  OK, I'll
    hush, but first there are some more scriptures that have been going
    through my mind as I've read and responded today:
    
    A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I
    have loved you, that ye also love one another.          
    
    By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have
    love one to another.
    
    John 13: 34-35
                 
    
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
    that whoso believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
    life.
    
    John 3:16
    
    
    Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
    
    1 John 4:11     
    
    
    I can think of no better way to close this than
    Love,
    aq
    

Brothers and Sisters,

	I have been extremely impressed by the thoughtfulness of your 
responses to my original note. Yes I asked Rich to submit that note for 
me.  Since the note was posted, my wife and I have met with our bishop to 
discuss our feelings about the ward. The first words out of his mouth were 
something like "You know. You are the third couple that I have met with 
TODAY who have exactly the same problem in the ward." I knew that we were 
not alone in our feelings but this really took us back. After finding out 
that we had had neither a Home Teaching or Visiting Teaching visit in 
several months he committed to getting that problem straightened out. But 
more importantly he challenged us to reach out to other couples in the 
ward. We have tried reaching out somewhat but there is still alot 
aloofness among some of the members.

	An interesting sidelight. My oldest son's Teachers Quorum adviser 
talked to us in the foyer last Sunday. He had mentioned that he was having 
a real discipline problem in the quorum. He had noted that it was only the 
kids from "well to do" families were the problem. Not the ones from middle 
class families. It's really unfortunate that there is such a large split 
among the membership, but I truly believe that our new bishop has such a 
strong Spiritual influence that the ward will be on a more Spiritual and 
less temporal plane in the future. 

	I guess that the bottom line is that we will continue to reach out, 
but I'm still in kind of a "wait and see" attitude.

I know that the church is true and is led by Jesus Christ through our 
living prophet. I also know that the leaders are called by inspiration.

Take care,

Frank 
    

    I'm glad you brought it up, Frank.  Thanks!
    
    Steve

	Just to give you an update. After talking to the Bishop then the 
Elders Quorum president we received new Visiting and Home Teachers. THEY 
ARE WONDERFUL. My wife just had a baby girl on March 2nd (our first girl 
after 3 boys). Our Home Teacher came over and spent the night with the boys 
so I could spend the night with my wife and new daughter in the hospital.
My wife's V.T. has checked on her several times to make sure that all was 
going well. Several of the sisters in the ward have said that they want to 
give my wife a baby shower. Also one of the sisters that I home teach has 
been called by the Bishop to make sure that none of the sisters in the ward
"don't feel left out or get lost in the shuffle".

	Now that things are going well a "Special Fast and Testimony" has 
been called. Our ward is going to split and we are almost positive that we
going to lose both our Home Teacher and our Visiting Teacher. I am looking 
toward this split as a positive move, but I have to admit that I am going 
to miss some people from this ward.

Take Care,

Frank