Conference tecrus::mormonism

    A quick reply to this note - the prophecy was fulfilled in that
    J. Smith was referring to the impending Civil War!  As for the
    return of the Lost Tribes, he said that a way was to be prepared, not
    that they would return within 133 years.
    
    Also, remember Jesus' comment that:
    
    This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be
    fulfilled.  Matt 24:34
    
    History tells us that early Christians believed his second coming would be
    within their lifetimes.   They thought there were in the last days
    due to this statment.  
    
    Can anyone add any more information on this prophecy of J. Smith? 

Re .0

>[prophecy] "And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ,
>that not many
>years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of 
>bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail,
>famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the 
>face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes
>of Israel from the north country. 

A lot of bloodshed, pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquakes have occurred in
the United States since 1833, and more will occur until the prophecy is
fulfilled.   The phrase about sweeping the wicked off the land clearly
indicates that the prophecy extends to the Second coming.


>[Mike] 155 years have gone by and the wicked are still on the earth.

As with all of the other "false prophecies" which you and I discussed in
CHRISTIAN note 242, you are taking general phrases (not many years and
generation) and are trying to interpret them in a very narrow time-frame
rather than in the time-frame of the Lord.

>[Mike] The lost tribes 
>have not returned from the north country (and they won't either).

That particular prophecy only spoke of the way being prepared for the
return of the lost tribes.


>[prophecy] FOR THERE ARE THOSE NOW LIVING UPON THE EARTH WHOSE EYES SHALL
>NOT BE 
>CLOSED IN DEATH UNTIL THEY SEE ALL THESE THINGS, WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN, 
>FULFILLED."

>[Mike] Most
>importantly, everyone that was alive in 1833 is now dead and the things that 
>Joseph Smith prophesied have not come to pass.

I can think of at least four ways, Mike, that that part of the prophecy may be
fulfilled.

1.  The Apostle John was given the privilege to remain on earth without
    death until the Second coming (John 21:20-23, Matthew 16:28).  I would
    guess that John is seeing all things being done by the Lord.

2.  Three Nephite disciples desired to remain on earth without death that
    they might perform the Lord's work, and that privilege was given them.
    (3 Nephi 28:4-24)

3.  People in Joseph Smith's time may have been given the privilege of
    remaining without death.  This is speculation, of course.

4.  People during Joseph Smith's time may have seen in vision the passing of
    events referred to in the prophecy.  This also is speculation.

The point I am trying to make, Mike, is that we should not limit the work of
God by our narrow focus of things.  Our lack of understanding of how certain
prophecies will be fulfilled does not imply that those prophecies will not
be fulfilled.

Allen

    
    
    Joseph Smith gave his "Civil War" prophecy toward the end of the
    year 1832.   He said that the war would start in South Carolina.
    
    That was no prophecy.  In the summer of that year, South Carolina
    claimed that a U.S. tax should not apply to them and started creating
    their own laws and taxes.  The president at that time, Andrew Jackson,
    began mustering troops in South Carolina to quell any discontent.
    Civil war seemed very likely at the time Joseph Smith made this
    "prophecy."
    
    By the way, there'll be a national election in November.  Do you
    want to declare me a prophet now?
    
    	--daniel
    
    

Section 87 of the Doctrine and Covenants is *not* a prophecy of the Civil
War; it is a general prophecy of war that includes the Civil War as well as
other wars that have and will occur.  Let's take a closer look at
the verses.  Emphasis placed in the verses is mine.


1. Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the *wars* that will shortly come to
   pass, *beginning* at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually 
   terminate in the death and misery of many souls;

The Lord declares that the prophecy concerns wars that will come to pass,
wars that begin with the Civil War.  Notice He is not referring to just one
war.


2. And the time will come that war will be poured out upon *all nations*, 
   *beginning at this place*.

The Lord declares that "all nations" will be involved, beginning with the Civil
War.  Thus, we know that the prophecy concerns more than the Civil War because
all nations will be involved.


3. For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States,
   and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great
   Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in 
   order to defend themselves against other nations; and *then war shall be 
   poured out upon all nations*.

The Lord talks about the Civil War, and then he generalizes and talks about
"all nations".  We know that "all nations" were not involved with the Civil
War, and thus we realize that the Lord is talking about more than that one
war.  He is talking about many wars that will occur.


4. And it shall come to pass after many days, slaves shall rise up against their
   masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.

In the context of war being poured out upon all nations, the Lord states that
slaves shall rise up against their masters.  We know that for the most part
slaves did not do this during the Civil War, again indicating that the context
for this verse is much wider than just that one war.

We have to be careful that we do not limit what the Lord meant by "slaves".
We have already seen examples in our time of slaves rising up against their
masters: the rise of anti-colonialism throughout the world, rebellions in
Communist countries such as Hungary in 1956 and Poland in recent times.

In fact, here in Massachusetts we have seen slaves to high taxes rise up
against the masters who impose taxes.  Massachusetts has been nicknamed
"Taxachusetts" because of its high taxes.  Fortunately, the Constitution of
Massachusetts allows citizens to petition for changes to State Law; if
sufficient signatures are obtained, citizens can force propositions onto the
ballot during statewide elections, and the propositions will become state law
if accepted by a majority of voters.  In recent years, this method has been used
to make law "Proposition 2 1/2" which limited the rise of local taxes, and (b)
"Proposition 7 1/2" which removed a "temporary" surcharge on our state
income tax which had been in effect for eleven years, and by limiting the
growth of state taxes to not be greater than the growth of income.  I am sure
that we will see other examples of slaves rising against their masters between
now and the Second Coming of Christ.


5. And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land 
   will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex 
   the Gentiles with a sore vexation.

We'll see what the future brings on this one.


6. And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall
   mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of 
   heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the
   earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an
   Almighty God until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all
   nations.

We've already seen this and will see more of it.


7. That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to 
   come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabbath, from the earth, to be avenged 
   of their enemies.

Satan may flourish for a time, but in the end God will win!


8. Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the 
   Lord come; for behold it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

Good advice for all of us, stand firm in the ways of the Lord!

   4. And it shall come to pass after many days, slaves shall rise up against
      their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.

I believe the recent events in Eastern Europe, in which the countries are
turning non-communist, are partial fulfilments of this prophecy.  I've
really enjoyed reading of the protests in those countries and the willingness
of the communist leaders to bow to the people.

Allen