Conference tecrus::mormonism

    Was Joseph Smith the only one who saw the gold plates? In the preface
    of the Book of Mormon is the following: 
    
                       The Testimony of Three Witnesses
    
    Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom
    this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and
    our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record,
    which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites,
    their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the
    tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been
    translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it
    unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we
    also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the
    plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not
    of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God
    came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we
    beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that
    it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that
    we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is
    marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us
    that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the
    commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know
    that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the
    blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment seat of
    Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the
    honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is
    one God. Amen. 
    
    Oliver Cowdery
    David Whitmer
    Martin Harris

    In addition to the Three Witnesses, is the following testimony, also
    found in the preface of the Book of Mormon: 
    
                       The Testimony of Eight Witnesses
    
    Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom
    this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this
    work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which
    have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said
    Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the
    engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work,
    and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of
    soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and
    hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of
    which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness
    unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing
    witness of it. 
    
    Christian Whitmer
    Jacob Whitmer
    Peter Whitmer, Jun.
    John Whitmer
    Hirem Page
    Joseph Smith, Sen.
    Hyrum Smith
    Samuel H. Smith

    
    Excuse me for saying so, Rich, but that doesn't seem like much in the
    way of evidence... is there more?
    
    Ed

    Re: Note 31.3 by Ed Preston
    
>   Excuse me for saying so, Rich, but that doesn't seem like much in the
>   way of evidence... is there more?

    That's all I had time to enter so far. Also, I would hope this can
    be a topic of general participation. In other words, I would like
    to enter some of the evidences I know about, and perhaps others
    will contribute as well.
    
    There is a lot of information available on this topic. I don't happen
    to have it all, however.
    
    More to come...
    
    Witnessing of Christ,
    Rich

    I plan to cover the validity of the Book of Mormon in my report
    in Note 38.
    
    Leza
    

	Perhaps the base note should be retitled "Evidence and Validity
    of the Book of Mormon"

	In note 23.45 (Accuracy of the Bible) the author writes:

	"The Book of Mormon does not pretend to be without faults."
    
	However according to Joseph Smith from HISTORY of the CHURCH,
    Smith said, "We heard a voice from out of the bright light above
    us, saying, 'These plates have been revealed by the power of God,
    and THEY HAVE BEEN TRANSLATED BY THE POWER OF GOD.  THE TRANSLATION
    OF THEM IS CORRECT, and I command you to bear record of what you
    now see and hear.' (emphasis is mine - History of the Church,Vol
    1, p 54-55)
    
    So my question is:  What's the fuss about the Book of Mormon not
    being correct, when according to the voice Joseph Smith heard, the
    book of Mormon is correct!   Am I right?
    
    	

In response to 31.6:

>	"The Book of Mormon does not pretend to be without faults."
>    
>	However according to Joseph Smith from HISTORY of the CHURCH,
>    Smith said, "We heard a voice from out of the bright light above
>    us, saying, 'These plates have been revealed by the power of God,
>    and THEY HAVE BEEN TRANSLATED BY THE POWER OF GOD.  THE TRANSLATION
>    OF THEM IS CORRECT, and I command you to bear record of what you
>    now see and hear.' (emphasis is mine - History of the Church,Vol
>    1, p 54-55)
>    
>    So my question is:  What's the fuss about the Book of Mormon not
>    being correct, when according to the voice Joseph Smith heard, the
>    book of Mormon is correct!   Am I right?

You are right about the Book of Mormon being correct, in my opinion.
But, there can arise confusion when contrasting faults in the scriptures
with errors of translation.
    
The errors (correctness) of translation and the presence of faults are two 
separate things.  There is no conflict.  A fault can occur if a thought is not 
expressed as unambiguously as the author desires even though the translation
is correct.  The references I listed illustrate just such circumstances for 
Biblical as well as Book of Mormon authors.

This concept can be illustrated by example.  Suppose that your primary 
language is C and your second language is English.  If your task is to 
describe in English a program written perfectly in C, you would soon
find English to be awkward.  There would be the possibility that though
your translation was correct, someone that was reading it might misinterpret
what was written in English.  So, there would be faults in your translation
though it was translated correctly.

There are thoughts which cannot be expressed without some fault due just to 
the limitations of language.  Thoughts may be expressed correctly even 
though they have the faults associated with the language.  Obviously, if one 
does not have complete mastery of a language, the problem of adding faults is 
compounded, but the correctness of the translation to language may still
hold.
    	
As a further illustration of this concept, I will refer to the Danish 
translation of the Bible.  In the King James Version Malachi 4:5 refers to
Elijah the prophet.  But, the Danish Bible (or Biblen) uses the name
Elias for the prophet's name in that verse.  Both translations are considered 
to be correct, but there is fault that can cause confusion.  In this case, it 
must be remembered that Elijah is a person.  But, Elias can represent Elijah
the prophet (Luke 4:25-26, James 5:17, Matthew 17:1-4) or it can have other
meanings pertaining to title (Matthew 11:13-14, 17:10-13).  So, though
both translations are correct, the King James Version is less faulty.

As long as thoughts must be expressed in languages and translated between
languages, there will be faults.  These are the faults of men in that it
is men that create, shape and use the languages.  The significance about 
divine assistance in translating the Book of Mormon is that the revelation 
involved in the process allowed Joseph Smith to be given not just the correct 
translation, but also the correct thoughts and intents of the authors.  In 
this manner, the Book of Mormon was translated and expressed in the English 
language as correctly as possible in spite of the lack of proficiency in 
English that Joseph Smith had.  It has been pointed out that the original Book 
of Mormon had grammatical errors.  These correspond to faults.  They do not 
affect the correctness of the book as the message is unchanged.  

By the way, this same spirit of revelation is necessary when translating
the Book of Mormon to other languages.  There may well be thoughts that need
divine clarification before a correct translation can be generated in 
another language.  This need for divine inspiration in the translation 
process is why the 8th Article of Faith states that "we believe the Bible
to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly".  Correct
translation requires divine inspiration to overcome the faults of language,
let alone the additions, omissions and alterations of others which I've 
already discussed.

The reason that there is concern is that some who observe faults in the Bible,
the Book of Mormon or other scriptures assume incorrectly that these make the 
scriptures incorrect and therefore invalid (Ether 12:24-27, and other 
references previously listed).  In the end, the individual must seek correct 
translations, and then consult the Spirit to receive confirmation and 
understanding (James 1:5, Moroni 10:4-5, D.C. 8:2-3, 88:118, 109:7).


Steve

    There are many external evidences of the validity of the Book of
    Mormon. A few of them are summarized here by B.H. Roberts:

                        Summary of External Evidences

    The external evidences include the testimony of the three witnesses and
    of the eight witnesses. Their testimony has already been considered.
    The testimony of American antiquities is appealed to by those who
    accept the claims of the book as genuine. The testimony is summarized
    as follows: 
    
    1- Beyond question the ruined cities and temples and other monuments of
       antiquity, found in many parts of America, furnish the most positive
       evidence that in ancient time the western world was occupied by
       great and civilized races of men - conditions that are described in
       the Book of Mormon. 

    2- The monuments of this civilization are found where the Book of
       Mormon requires them to be located.

    3- The monumental evidence is to the effect that successive
       civilizations have existed in America in ancient times; and the
       older civilization has left the most enduring monuments - a
       condition required by the Book of Mormon accounting of things.

    4- The chief center of this ancient American civilization, and its
       oldest and most enduring monuments, are in Central America,
       where the Book of Mormon locates its oldest race of people, and
       where civilization longest prevailed; and it is also the center
       from which civilization, beyond question, extended northward into
       Mexico, and into the Mississippi and Ohio valleys - another
       thing required by the Book of Mormon accounting for things.
       (Footnote - In making the above summary of external evidence
       up to this point, Latter-day Saint writers are not unaware of
       the fact that there are some works on American antiquities whose
       conclusions would not be in harmony with this summary; but they
       insist that the preponderance of evidence and also the weight
       of authorities are in favor of these conclusions.

    5- The evidence exists that these ancient civilizations were
       overthrown, and were succeeded by a period of barbarism, in which
       condition, for the most part, the inhabitants of the western
       hemisphere were found when America was discovered by Europeans
       in the fifteenth century.

    6- The traditions of native American races concerning ancient *Bible*
       facts, such as relate to the Creation, the Flood, the Tower of
       Babel, and the Dispersion of Mankind, etc., sustain the likelihood
       of the forefathers of the American aborigines, in very ancient
       times, being cognizant of such facts either by personal contact
       with them, or by having a knowledge of them through the Hebrew
       scriptures, or perhaps through both means. All this is in harmony
       with what the Book of Mormon makes known concerning the Jaredite
       and Nephite peoples; for the forefathers of the former people
       were in personal contact with the building of Babel, the confusion
       of languages and the dispersion of mankind; while the Nephites,
       the second colony that came to America, had knowledge of these
       and many other ancient historical facts through a copy of the
       Hebrew scriptures which they brought with them to America. This
       collection consisted of the five books of Moses and a record
       of the Jews, including the writings of the prophets, down to
       the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah.

    7- The native American traditions also preserve the leading historical
       events detailed in the Book of Mormon. That is, the facts of
       the Jaredite and Nephite migrations; of the intercontinental
       movements of Book of Mormon peoples; of the advent and character
       of Messiah and his ministrations among the people; of the signs
       of his birth and of his death; of the fact of the Hebrew origin
       and unity of the race. It is not insisted upon that the evidences
       which American antiquities afford are absolute proofs of the
       claims of the Book of Mormon. Mormon writers go no further than
       to say that there is a tendency of external proof in them; and
       when this tendency of proof is united with the positive, direct
       external testimony which God has provided in those witnesses
       that he himself has ordained to establish the truth of the Book
       of Mormon, the three witnesses and the eight, this tendency of
       proof becomes very strong, and is worthy of most serious attention
       on the part of those who would investigate the claims of this
       American volume of scripture, the Book of Mormon.

       A Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
       Saints, Vol 1 pp.173-175.

       Rich

    According to Joseph Smiths own words (which I will cover in my report
    in note 38) and according to other comments made my other Mormon
    leaders, the Book of Mormon either has to be completely true or
    completely false.  
    
    In translating the Bible, ok, we can accept grammatical changes,
    changes in meanings of words, etc.  But we have either the original
    manuscripts or copies of the originals available to us.  We also
    have Greek and Hebrew lexicons available to us so that we can compare
    them.  With the Book of Mormon there is nothing to compare to. 
    Only the word of Joseph Smith and his witnesses.
    
    To say the Book of Mormon does have errors in it is then to deny
    the power of the God of the Mormon church.  For he gave Joseph the
    power to translate it.  This will be in much more detail in my report.
     But I am sorry, based on my knowledge of how the Book of Mormon
    was reportedly translated, it has to be pretty close to 100% correct
    (allowing for printer errors) or somethings wrong.  By the way,
    are you aware that handwritten copies of the Book of Mormon have
    been found?  Again, I will bring forth much more detail on this
    in my report.
    
    Thanks,  Leza
    

      There are several comments in here about the corrections that
    have been made to the book of Mormon.  I was listening to a tape
    by Dr Erickson of BYU (at least he was there around 72). He commented
    about these changes stating the following. (Paraphrased, I not very
    good at transcribing from audio tapes.)
      The Book of Mormon as it exists today is very difficult to translate
    into hebrew (you will remember that the BofM was written in reformed
    Egyptian, something of a cross between egyptian and hebrew), but
    the original text as dictated by Joseph Smith translates beautifully.
    In hebrew there is no punctuation, or grammer etc.  The translaters
    (into hebrew) found that there had been somewhere around 5000 changes
    in the BofM and that every one of them went back into perfect hebrew!
    
    I found that to be very interesting.
    
    By the way does anyone out there have the New Era article on Chiasmus
    in the BofM.  It was published about 10 years ago and had an extensive
    writeup (much more that was given in the Ensign)
    of this form of hebrew literature found the 1 Ne and thoughout
    the BofM.  If no one has it I will research it and enter it.

        
    

    There are many internal evidences of the validity of the Book of
    Mormon. A few of them are summarized here by B.H. Roberts: 

                        Summary of Internal Evidences

    The internal evidences of the Book of Mormon consist in the following
    facts: 

    1- The book in style and language is consistent with the theory of its
       construction; 

    2- It responds to the demands both of unity and diversity in its style,
       under the theory of its structure; 

    3- It has all the characteristics of an abridgment, in the parts that
       are said to be abridgments; and all the characteristics of original
       documents where they are given as original documents. 

    4- It meets all the requirements of the circumstances in the matter of
       names, originality in names, differences between Jaredite and
       Nephite names, and the custom of Hebrew peoples with reference to
       names; 

    5- The governments it describes are in harmony with the political
       principles of the age in which those governments are said to have
       existed; 

    6- The events to which importance is given are such as would be
       expected from the character of its writers;             

    7- It meets the requirements in originality of structure, manner of
       coming forth, theory of peopling America, the nativity of its
       peoples; in its accounting for the knowledge of Christian truths
       among native races in America, and in its doctrine concerning the
       purpose of man's earth-life, the fall and the atonement; 

    8- Its prophecies, so many and important, so far as the wheels of time
       have brought them due, are fulfilled, and others are in course of
       fulfillment; 

    9- It deals with subjects worthy of God to reveal, and important for
       man to know; 

   10- It has an atmosphere about it, a spirit, that bears witness of its
       truth; 

   11- And finally it appeals to the psychic force in each individual mind
       - to the evidence that may arise from the intuitions of the
       individual soul when seeking truth, by promising that those who out
       of a sincere heart will ask God if this work is true, shall receive
       soul-knowledge through the Holy Spirit, that it is true. 

    A Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
    Saints, Vol 1 pp.175-176. 

    Rich 

    One evidence of the Book of Mormon is the correlation between many of
    the legends of the American Indians and events described in the Book of
    Mormon. One such event was the account in the Book of 3 Nephi, in which
    the Savior, Jesus Christ, visited the people on the American
    Continents, after his resurrection.

    Mark E. Peterson wrote a treatise on the subject, from which I have
    extracted the following:

                      The Great White God was a Reality
                      ---------------------------------

    The Great White God of ancient America still lives! In the discoveries
    and writings of archaeologists and historians, he now stands out as an
    unassailable reality. The mystery that so long veiled the puzzling
    traditions of the natives is swept aside by modern research and newly
    found but centuries old documents that open a widely expanded view of
    this divinity and his labors in the western hemisphere.

    The Great White God
    -------------------
    
    There was such a God!

    He did come to America, long before the time of Columbus.

    He taught the ancients his true religion, raised some of their dead,
    healed many of their sick, taught new and more productive methods of
    agriculture, and established a government of equality and peace.

    He came suddenly and left suddenly in a supernatural manner.

    The ancients regard him as the Creator, come to earth in bodily form.

    Who can doubt evidence that now mounts so high?

    That he was a Christian divinity none can successfully deny.

    That his teachings were akin to the Bible is now readily admitted by
    many.

    And that he promised to return in a second coming is an acknowledged,
    scriptural fact, well attested by subsequent historical accounts.

    Many Groups Have Legends of the Great White God
    -----------------------------------------------

    The tradition of a White God in ancient America was preserved through
    generations of Indians from Chile to Alaska, and has been significantly
    persistent likewise among the Polynesians from Hawaii to New Zealand.

    In their main details all such traditions agree. They differ in name
    and minor details from island to island and from country to country,
    but the overall outline remains the same - there was a Great White God.
    He came among their forefathers, ministered for a while, and then left
    again. Some say he ascended to heaven.

    Of such veracity is the information now available concerning him that
    Paul Herrmann was induced to say in his book "The Conquest of Man":

         Carefully considered, this leaves no conclusion open than
         that the Light God Quetzalcoatl was a real person, that he
         was neither an invention of Spanish propaganda nor a
         legendary figment of Indian imagination." (p 72)

    This being was known as Quetzalcoatl in parts of Mexico, primarily in
    the Cholula area. He was Votan in Chiapas and Wixepechocha in Oaxasa,
    Gucumatz in Guatemala, Viracocha and Hyustus in Peru, Sume in Brazil,
    and Bochica in Colombia.

    To the Peruvians he was also known as Con-tici or Illa-Tici, Tici
    meaning both Creator and Light. To the Mayans he was principally known
    as Kukulcan.

    In the Polynesian Islands he was Lono, Kana, Kane, or Kon, and
    sometimes Kanaloa - the Great Light or Great Brightness. He also was
    known as Kane-Akea, the great Progenitor, or Tonga-roa, the god of the
    ocean sun.

    What Was this Great White God Like?
    -----------------------------------

    What did he look like, this Great White God?

    He was described as a tall, white man, bearded and with blue eyes. He
    wore loose, flowing robes. He came from heaven, and went back to
    heaven.

    And what did he do when he came? He healed the sick, gave sight to the
    blind, cured the lame, and raised some of the dead. He taught a better
    life, telling the people to do unto others as they would be done by, to
    love their neighbors as themselves, and to always show kindness and
    charity.

    He seemed to be a person of great authority and unmeasured kindness. He
    had power to make hills into plains and plains into high mountains. He
    could bring fountains of water from the solid rock.
    
    He Came After a Period of Darkness
    ----------------------------------
    
    One of the remarkable things about his coming was that he appeared
    after a period of darkness in all the land, during which the people had
    prayed for a return of the sun. While the darkness yet prevailed,...

         "they suffered great hardship and made great prayers and vows
         to those they held to be their gods, imploring of them the
         light that had failed."

    As the light returned, then came this...

         "white man of large stature whose air and person aroused
         great respect and veneration... And when they saw his power,
         they called him the Maker of all things, their Beginner,
         Father of the sun." (Pedro de Cieza do Leon, "The Incas".)

    He Promised to Come Again
    -------------------------

    This personage, as he taught his religion, also urged the people to
    build great temples for worship, and his followers became very devout.
    (Pierre Honore, "In Quest of the White God", p.16) As he left them, he
    promised his second coming, which caused the natives to look for his
    return even as the Jews look for their promised Messiah.
    
    
    This faith led to disaster, however, when the Spaniards came to America
    and when Captain Cook sailed to the Hawaiian Islands. But these
    tragedies served only to reinforce the evidence of his reality. 
                                                                   
    Conquistadores Welcomed as Great White God
    ------------------------------------------
    
    When the Spanish Conquistadores reached South America, one of Pizzaro's
    lieutenants strode ashore wearing his helmet and breastplate and
    carrying a shining musket. He made an impressive appearance.

    Natives on the shore watched him in amazement. He was a white man! As
    Pedro de Candia strode toward them, they knelt before him and began to
    say "Viracocha, Viracocha." It puzzled the gallant Pedro. The natives
    drew nearer, surrounding him. Somewhat fearful himself, he fired his
    gun into the air, expecting to frighten the natives away. But they did
    not move. Instead the whispered, "Illa Tiki, Illa Tiki," meaning "the
    god of lightening."

    The Indians thought he was their returning white god Viracocha, and
    that with his gun he controlled both thunder and lightning.
    
    Cortez Welcomed as Great White God
    ----------------------------------
    
    Hernando Cortez was likewise believed to be the returning White God as
    he came to Mexico in 1520. When the coastal natives saw that he was
    white, a leader among his men, and that he came in a large ship with
    white sails, they ran hurriedly to their ruler Montezuma and announced
    that the Great White God had arrived.

    This had a striking effect upon Montezuma. He remembered that when he
    was crowned as emperor, the priests of the Aztec cult reminded him:

         "This is not your throne; it is only lent you and will one
         day be returned to the One to whom it is due." (Pierre
         Honore, op.cit., p.66.)

    Montezuma immediately made plans to greet Cortez with all the respect
    he owed to the White God whom his Aztec religion had taught him to
    expect. Precious gifts were brought to Cortez; the riches of the realm
    were opened to him. He was honored as a deity indeed. But his treachery
    soon changed that, and warfare resulted. Montezuma lost his throne and
    his life. But the tradition remained.
    
    Cook Welcomed as Great White God
    --------------------------------
    
    When Captain James Cook sailed into the peaceful waters of the Hawaiian
    Islands, he too was mistaken for the White God.

    Remarkably, Captain Cook had landed during the Makahiki Festival, the
    celebration that kept alive the traditions of the White God Lono. King
    Kalaniopuu welcomed him and his party,... But his men were anything but
    angelic, and through their depredations they brought down upon the
    entire Cook party the wrath of the natives. In the battle that ensued,
    Cook lost his life.

    But once again - that tradition persisted.

    What Other Legends Are There?
    -----------------------------

    Not only have the oft-told stories of the White God continued through
    the ages, but his teachings are also still dear to the hearts of the
    natives.

    One of the remarkable survivals is that recounted in Stephen's
    "Incidents of Travel in Central America". The author quotes what
    Fuentes, chronicler of the ancient kingdom of Guatemala and of the
    Toltecan Indians, said of the origin of these people.
    
    Isrealites in America
    ---------------------
    
    They were Israelites, he said, released by Moses from the tyranny of
    the Pharaohs. After crossing the Red Sea, they became idolaters because
    of the influence of the local peoples; and to escape the reproofs of
    Moses, they strayed away. Under the leadership of a man named Tanub,
    they drifted from continent to continent until finally they came to a
    place they called the Seven Caverns, a part of the kingdom of Mexico,
    where they founded the city of Tula. The story recounts that from
    Tanub, their leader, sprang the families of the Tula and the Quiche.
    
    Four Brothers
    -------------
    
    Other traditions tell of four brothers who led their families from far
    distant lands to the east, over the oceans, to the new world where they
    settled and built cities.
    
    Three Deities
    -------------
    
    "Popul Vuh", the sacred book of the ancient Quiche Maya (published by
    the University of Oklahoma Press), reveals that the early Americans
    believed in a trinity of deities. They believed also in a heavenly
    father and a heavenly mother, and that the Eternal Father and his
    Beloved Son were the creators of heaven and earth.

    "Popul Vuh" also speaks of the creation as having been accomplished by
    this trinity - three deities - creators and makers of all.

    Pre-earth Life
    --------------
    
    These early Americans, as shown in this same volume, believed in a
    preexistence, and in a devil who also lived in that pre-earth life
    where he boasted of his brilliance and power, saying...

         "my eyes are of silver, bright, resplendent as precious
         stones, as emeralds, my teeth shine like perfect stones, like
         the fact of the sky. ...So then I am the sun, I am the moon,
         for all mankind."

    This evil being sought to usurp the glory of God but failed. "His only
    ambition was to exalt himself and to dominate."

    The manuscript from ancient Indian sources explains that at this point
    "neither our first mother nor our first father had yet been created."
    
    Eve Partakes of the Fruit
    -------------------------
    
    There is also the story of the woman being tempted to eat the fruit of
    a tree and asking, "Must I die? Shall I be lost if I pick one of this
    fruit?"
    
    The Great Flood
    ---------------
    
    The story of the great flood (Noah's) is recounted among the early
    Americans and Polynesians.
    
    Twelve Holy Men and the Lord's Supper
    -------------------------------------
    
    Traditions in northern Mexico, principally among the Yaqui Indians,
    tell of the survival of a council of 12 holy men who ministered
    religiously among the people. They also tell of a form of sacrament of
    the Lord's supper, wherein the natives eat and drink sacred emblems
    amid signs of great sadness, in remembrance of their deity.

    The Book of Mormon Speaks of the Great White God
    ------------------------------------------------

    Who was this Great White God?

    The Book Mormon tells the facts about the coming of the White God, an
    event that occurred in America following his resurrection in Palestine.

    When the crucifixion took place and the earthquakes shook Palestine,
    even worse quakes, tempests, and conflagrations swept over the western
    hemisphere.

    Then, "...it came to pass that there was thick darkness upon all the
    face of the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof who had not
    fallen could feel the vapor of darkness." (3 Ne. 8:20)
                                         
    Christ Visits America
    ---------------------
    
    After this condition, which lasted for three days, there came a
    voice...

         ...and it said unto them:

         Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I
         have glorified my name - hear ye him.

         And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes
         up again towards, heaven; and behold, they saw a Man
         descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe;
         and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes
         of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst
         not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what
         it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared
         unto them.

         And it came to pass that he stretched for this hand and spake
         unto the people, saying:

         Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall
         come into the world.

         And behold, I am the light and life of the world; and I have
         drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me,
         and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of
         the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the
         Father in all things from the beginning. 3 Nephi 11:6-11
    
    Christ Teaches and Ascends Into Heaven
    --------------------------------------
    
    In the days that followed, the same divine visitor introduced the
    blessing of the bread and wine as sacrament; he called forth all their
    sick, afflicted, lame, blind, and dumb, and healed them; he organized
    an administration to teach and baptize in his name, and he counseled
    these leaders and the multitudes about his doctrine. And after many
    days,

         ...there came a cloud and overshadowed the multitude that
         they could not see Jesus.

         And while they were overshadowed he departed from them, and
         ascended into heaven. And the disciples saw and did bear
         record that he ascended again into heaven. 3 Ne. 18:38-39

    This is the true story of the Great White God. He is Jesus the Christ,
    the Savior of all mankind.

    "Christ in America"
    (Note: Subtitles added)

                                    ------
    
    The Book of Mormon also corroborates many of the other legends: twelve
    holy men (twelve disciples chosen to lead the church in ancient
    America), four brothers (the sons of Lehi), the Lord's supper, the
    origin of the people Christ visited in America (they came from
    Jerusalem, and had the Hebrew scriptures with them, with the teachings
    of the pre-life, Eve, the flood, Moses, and the three Gods - Father,
    Son, and Holy Ghost), and the promise that Christ would come again. 

    Much of this research has come forth many decades after the Book
    of Mormon was translated by Joseph Smith. 
             
    I bear witness that Jesus Christ did visit the American Continents,
    and taught the people his gospel. The Book of Mormon contains the
    record of these people.

    Rich
                                              

    To: Murray in 31.11
    
    I have a copy of the article on Chiasmus, which I will discuss here.
    To me it is another evidence of the validity of the Book of Mormon.
    
    Discussion of Chiasmus to follow later.
    
    

    
    There's one little detail that bothers me though. How would Jesus
    have white skin and blue eyes ?
    
    Paul V

    Re: Note 31.15 by IOSG::VICKERS 

    Hi Paul,
        
>   There's one little detail that bothers me though. How would Jesus
>   have white skin and blue eyes ?

    He no doubt inherited them from his father. Let us not forget that
    Jesus is the Son of God.

    In Him,    
    Rich

Oh oh...

Indian legends that the Great White God had blue eyes does not mean that Jesus
actually had blue eyes.  Indian legends are just that, legends.  They may have
been based on truth in the beginning, but I would expect that they have been
distorted over the years.  In studying legends we have to be carful to look at
trends and patterns but not at specific details since we can't evaluate the
amount of distortion in the legends.

The point that Paul was getting at is that it would be very unusual for a Jew
to have blue eyes, and I agree with him since we assume Mary was a "typical"
Jew and we know nothing about the eyes of the Father.

This gets us into the topic of PARALLELS vs. EVIDENCE which is a theme for a
new note.

Allen

    Some people say that it is a problem that the Book of Mormon speaks of
    honey bees, since honey bees were first introduced into the New World
    by the white man in the seventeenth century. Remarkably, the honey bee
    provides an interesting evidence of the Book of Mormon. 
    
         There are seven references to bees of honey in the Book of Mormon,
         and without exception they all belong to the Old World. Lehi's
         wanderers, starved for sweets, gloried as Arabs always do in the
         discovery of honey - but that was in Arabia. The Jaredites carried
         hives of bees from Babel into the wilderness for a journey of many
         years, but there is no mention of bees in the cargo of their ships
         (Ether 5:4) - a significant omission, since our author elsewhere
         goes out of his way to mention them. The survival of the word bee
         in the New World after the bees themselves had been left behind is
         a phenomenon having many parallels in the history of language, but
         the Book of Mormon nowhere mentions bees or honey as existing in
         the Western Hemisphere. 
         
         Hugh Nibley, Lehi in the Desert and The World of the Jaredites, p
         189-190 
                  
    The remarkable aspect of the Book of Mormon's reference to bees is
    found in the name the Jaredites used for honeybee, "deseret", and the
    respect that they afforded it. Since the printing of the Book of
    Mormon, there have been found other cultures that would have originated
    about the same time as the Jaredites originated, which are remarkably
    similar in this respect. 
    
         We need not resort to speculation, however, to make out an
         interesting case for deseret. Let us list the known facts and let
         it go at that. 
         
         1- The Jaredites in their wanderings took with them "a honeybee"
            which they called in their language deseret, as well as "hives
            of bees." 
         
         2- The founders of the Second Civilization of Egypt had the bee as
            the symbol of their land, their king, and their empire, to all
            of which they applied the designation deseret, or something
            very close to it. 
         
         3- Though they never called the bee itself "dsrt", the sign which
            is often "for superstitious reasons" written in its place is so
            designated. 
         
         4- The bee sign was always regarded by the Egyptians as very
            sacred. 
            
         Hugh Nibley, Lehi in the Desert and The World of the Jaredites, p
         188
         
    Hugh Nibley also discusses how the honey bee figures prominently
    in other cultures of the alleged time of the Jaredites.

    Thus we see that the Book of Mormon references coincide with what
    scientists currently believe about the introduction of the honeybee to
    the New World, since the Book of Mormon references make no mention of
    honeybees in the New World, and only in the Old World, where the
    peoples in the Book of Mormon came from. We also see that the respect
    and the name given the honeybee by one of the Book of Mormon peoples is
    remarkably similar to that of the Egyptians and other cultures about
    the same time.
            
    Rich

    Re: Note 31.17 by CACHE::LEIGH 
    
    Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to imply that we know the legend is
    correct in this detail, but only *if* it were, this *could* be an
    explanation. My note was a bit presumptuous.
    
    Rich

    re: blue eyes
    
    There is another account that indicates that Jesus Christ had blue
    eyes in the mortal state.  I read a description of Christ in Josephus
    that included blue eyes.  I do not have the reference with me (the
    copy I read was my father's).  Does anybody have Josephus that is
    willing to look it up?
    
    Steve

  Do you happen to recall which writing of Josephus' it might have been in?

It would help making searching for the reference a wee bit easier...

lee

    Wish I could be of help.  I don't remember.  However, as I recall
    there was also a series on Josephus or other writings in the Ensign
    a few years ago.  I know that's not much help.  There's only one
    compilation of the writings of Josephus that I'm aware of.  I might
    be able to get hold of one Saturday.
    
    Steve

    The Book of Mormon makes references to horses on the American
    continents during the time of its history. At the time that the Book of
    Mormon was translated, it was believed that horses were first
    introduced to the Americas after Columbus' arrival. However, more
    recent archaeological evidence has shown otherwise.
    
         If Joseph Smith had been writing the Book of Mormon instead
         of translating it from ancient records, he would have been
         very foolish to have included references to horses on the
         American continent in Book of Mormon times. (1 Nephi 18:25;
         Enos 21.) In 1830, nearly all the historians and scholars
         were convinced there had been no horses on the American
         continent before the coming of Columbus. After the Book of
         Mormon was published, however, archaeological discoveries
         were made that clearly indicate that horses were in the
         Americas before Columbus arrived. In the asphalt deposits of
         Rancho LaBrea in southern California, numerous fossil
         remains of horses have been found that antedate Book of
         Mormon times.

         Franklin S. Harris, Jr., quotes the zoologist Ivan T.
         Sanderson as saying: "There is a body of evidence both
         from the mainland of Central America and even from rock
         drawings in Haiti itself tending to show that the horse
         may have been known to man in the Americas before the
         coming of the Spaniards."
                  
         Daniel Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Book of
         Mormon, p 117.
    
    Rich
    

    This summary is taken from  a Church Magazine, The New Era, of February
    1972, called Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon.
    
    Chiasmus: A Biblical writing technique, sometimes called
    mirror-writing.
    
    Discovered: 1930 by Nils Lund, not fully understood until 1960
    
    Illustration:  Everything gets said twice, and in the repetition
    it gets said backwards, back to front, or in a reverse order.
    
    a. Save me
     b. O my God,
       c.for thou has smitten
        d. all my enemies
          e.on the cheekbone:
          e.The teeth
        d.of the wicked
      c. thou has broken;
     b. to Jehovah,
    a. the salvation
    
    Here is another one:
    
    a.There died on the earth
     b.all birds,
      c.all cattle,
       d.beasts and creeping things,
        e.man;
         f.all life
          g.died
          g.and was destroyed
         f. Every living thing
        e.both man
       d.creeping things,
      c.cattle
     b.birds,
    a.were destroyed from the earth.  
    
    Genesis 7:21-23
    
    There are others too long to print here.  But it is not just a simple
    repetition, but an intensification in the second half (See Psalms
    3:7-8. Psalms 58 is one whole chiasmus.
    
    If the Book of Mormon was written by Hebrews, then Chiasmus should
    exist in the Book of Mormon. Right?
    
    ANSWER:  The Book of MOrmon has many, which are too long to repeat
    here, but here is a simple one:
    
    Mosiah 3:18-19
    
    a.they humble themselves
     b.and become as little children
      c.and believe that salvation...is...in and throught the atoning
        blood of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.
        d.For the natural man
         e.is an enemy to God,
          f.and has been from the fall of Adam,
          f.and will be, forever and ever,
         e.unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit
        d.And putteth off the natural man
      c.and become a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord,
     b.and becometh as a child,
    a.submissive, meek, humble...full of love
                                             
    
    We can rule out Joseph Smith knew about Chiasmus just be studying
    the Scriptures because the King James translation, which he used,
    obscures every chiastic formation in an attempt to avoid redundant
    repetitions or to prevent awkward word orders.  Their good English
    style was anathema to good Hebrew.
    
    If anyone is interested in a copy of this article, I will be happy
    to send you  one.  Just let me have your mailstop.
    
    As for me, this literary style is another evidence of the fact that
    Joseph did not write the book, but translated ancient writings of
    a Hebrew Colony.
    
    For those of you who really like this kind of evidence, I recommend
    Hugh Nibley.
    
    
    

    The following is abridged from an article in the June 1985 Ensign
    magazine, by V. Garth Norman, Director of Archeological Research
    Consultants (ARCON), research associate of BYU's Museum of Peoples
    and Cultures, and past researcher with the New World Archeological
    Foundation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    In 1941, a Smithsonian/National geographic Society expedition reported
    the discovery of an unusual stone monument from the ruins of Izapa in
    southern Mexico. This carving, designated Izapa Stela 5, is the most
    important monument so far discovered from the pre-Maya Izapan cultural
    period, which dates from about 500 BC to AD 1. 
    
    What makes the monument so interesting to Latter-day Saints is its
    possible connection to the Book of Mormon...Certain features of the
    monument seem to correspond to features of Lehi's vision of the Tree of
    Life (See 1 Nephi 8). The most obvious of the parallels is a
    fruit-bearing tree in the center with a stream running by. A pathway
    extends from the river's head to the tree, and a broad grooved line
    paralleling the path suggests the rod of iron. Two cherubim-like beings
    attend the tree, and seated around it are six people who, it was
    suggested, could represent Lehi's family in the attitudes they assume
    in Lehi's vision...[Above the head of one of these figures] is the
    'cipactli' glyph, a bared jawbone and possible name glyph for "Lehi,"
    which in Hebrew means "jawbone" or "cheek"...
    
    Since then, many additional sculptures have been discovered, bringing
    the stone monuments similar to Stela 5 to a total of eighty-nine...I
    published an interpretive study of the Izapa monuments, including
    Stela 5 in a large work entitled "Izapa Sculpture." The study shows
    that Stela 5 occupies a central position, conceptually speaking,
    in relation to the other carvings discovered in Izapa, which display,
    among other concepts the following: (1) There is an anthropomorphic
    god whose prime symbol is the sun and who dwells in the heavens
    and in the mountains. (2) He is god of the Tree of Life, which relates
    to life after death. (3) At death, the human spirit rises into heaven
    from the body. (4) a physical resurrection is implied. (5) Worship
    involves sacrifice and a divine sacrificial atonement. And (6) the
    spirit of an unborn child originates in the heavens.
    

New Developments in Book of Mormon Research
(Ensign, February 1988, p. 13)

"Bruce W. Warren: I have lately been researching the ethnohistory of the
Jaredites, Mulekites, and secret combinations.  Ethnohistory combines
the fields of written documents, painted codices, hieroglyphic scripts,
iconography (the meaning of art symbols), linguistics, archaeology, and
ethnography.  The recent discovery of the starting date for Mixtec and
neighboring codices and maps at 3114 B.C. has opened up exciting new
horizons for research because they date to the Jaredite time period.
Just two Mixtec codices picture over 354 place names, along with
historical dates and individual names.  All this bears on the 'land
northward,' the Jaredites, and the Mulekites."

Bruce W. Warren teaches anthropology and archaeology at BYU and is
affiliated with the BYU Museum of Peoples and Cultures.

(This is also posted in note 62.6)

New Developments in Book of Mormon Research
(Ensign, February 1988, p. 16)

"John L. Hilton: For the past six years several other computer-knowledgeable
scholars--including non-Mormons--and I have furthered studies of wordprints
(stylometry) of the original Book of Mormon manuscript.  As the science of
examining word patterns has developed, we have shown that, when properly done,
wordprinting is an accurate, objective tool for measuring which authors did
not write large documents.

"We also extensively measured the accuracy of the printing in our present 
editions of the Book of Mormon, the degree to which Joseph Smith used the
language of the King James Version to express Book of Mormon ideas, and
the consistency of the English vocabulary in the book.  All of the measurements
verify long-known facts as published through Church circles.  Thus, precise
measurements now exist to correct faulty accusations and misestimations of the
work.

"For example, to examine the appropriateness of the wordprint measurements
from translated works, we have extensively measured the wordprints of various
foreign authors' writings that have been translated into English by the same 
translator.  We have compared these translations to the personal English
writings of the translator.  These tests disprove the speculation that a
translator's own wordprint would necessarily obscure the uniqueness of the
original author's own word patterns.  The wordprints we measured in the 
writings of different German authors, all translated by the same German-to-
English translator, differ from each other and from the original English
writings of the translator himself as much as do any control writings of
completely different authors.

"We show a nonambiguous difference between the distinct word patterns of the
Book of Mormon authors and word patterns in the noncontroversial personal
writings of Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, and Solomon Spaulding.
For the two Book of Mormon authors, Nephi and Alma, who have written enough for
unambiguous statistical evaluation, we have found internal consistency when
each author is compared against himself, but when Nephi is compared to
Alma, we measure the different patterns typical of indepent authors.  In
other words, comparable writings of Nephi and Alma, while consistent
within themselves, differ from each other as much as control authors'
writings differ from one another."

John L. Hilton is a project physicist for Physics International and lives
in Walnut Creek, California.

New Developments in Book of Mormon Research
(Ensign, February 1988, p. 17)

"V. Garth Norman: A rewarding study in the Book of Mormon is the doctrine
of the tree of life and its references to historical antiquity.  This
symbol is found in the religious art of Mesoamerica in the Izapan period,
the time of early emergence of Nephite civilization, and remains important
thereafter.  Symbols are powerful instructors and motivators, and the tree
of life vision is vital in demonstrating what is necessary to do to partake
of that tree's fruit."

V. Garth Norman is director of the Center for Izapan Research at BYU.

    One interesting aspect of the Book of Mormon is that it accurately
    predicts how it would generally be accepted. The great Book of Mormon
    prophet Nephi wrote what the Lord told him concerning the coming forth
    of the Book of Mormon nearly 600 years before Christ. 
    
         But behold, there shall be many - at that day when I shall proceed
         to do a marvelous work among them, that I may remember my
         covenants which I have made unto the children of men, that I may
         set my hand again the second time to recover my people, which are
         of the house of Israel; 
         
         And also, that I may remember the promises which I have made unto
         thee, Nephi, and also unto they father, that I would remember your
         seed; and that the words of your seed should proceed forth out of
         my mouth unto your seed; and my words shall hiss forth unto the
         ends of the earth, for a standard unto my people, which are of the
         house of Israel; 
         
         And because my words shall hiss forth - many of the Gentiles shall
         say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be
         any more Bible. 
         
         But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and
         it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant
         people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they
         receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they
         remember the travels, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews,
         and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the
         Gentiles? 
         
         O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant
         people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and
         have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all
         these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not
         forgotten my people. 
         
         Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we
         need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the
         Jews? 
         
         Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that
         I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember
         those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the
         heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word
         unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the
         earth? 
         
         Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my
         word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness
         unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto
         another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like
         unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the
         testimony of the two nations shall run together also. 
         
         And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same
         yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words
         according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one
         word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work
         is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man,
         neither from that time henceforth and forever. 
         
         Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that
         it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not
         caused more to be written. 
         
         For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in
         the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that
         they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the
         books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man
         according to their works, according to that which is written. 
         
         For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it;
         and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it;
         and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of
         Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I
         shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall
         write it. 
         
         And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of
         the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews;
         and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost
         tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the
         words of the Nephites and the Jews. 
         
         And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house
         of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their
         possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in one. And I will
         show unto them that fight against my word and against my people,
         who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I
         covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever. 
         
         2 Nephi 29:1-14
         
    Nephi further wrote:
         
         Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and
         denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost! 
         
         Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no
         more! 
         
         And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because
         of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock
         receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy
         foundation trembleth lest he shall fall. 
         
         Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God,
         and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough! 
         
         For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children
         of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and
         there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my
         precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn
         wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from
         them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away
         even that which they have. 
         
         2 Nephi 28:26-30
         
    I thank God for giving us more of His word, in the form of the Book of
    Mormon, and I, for one, receive it with gladness! 
    
    Witnessing of Christ,
    Rich
        
                                                      

In .30 I mentioned "wordprints" as a new development in Book of Mormon
research.  I have created note 104 for a detailed look at wordprints and
the Book of Mormon.

    The beginning of the Book of Mormon tells how Lehi went among the
    people of Jerusalem prophesying of the destruction of the city and of
    the coming of the Messiah, and that there were many such prophets. Hugh
    Nibley asks the question: 
                              
         Who were the Forgotten Prophets? - Not long ago a scholar in Italy
         observed to this writer that if Lehi had been a real prophet
         living in Jerusalem, there would certainly be some record of him
         available. But Lehi barely began his activity before he had to
         leave town, and according to his account the place was swarming
         with prophets at the time. The Lachish Letters written in the time
         of Lehi and discovered in 1938, now confirm this picture; one of
         them, Number 8, complains that the prophets of doom are
         undermining the morale of the people in town and country.
         [Footnote: H. Torczyner, The Lachish Letters (London; Oxford
         University Press, 1938).] Lehi was one of those prophets of doom.
         "Our father Lehi was driven out of Jerusalem because he testified
         of these things," wrote Helaman long after. (Helaman 8:19-22.) The
         teachings for which he was driven out, Helaman explains were the
         very teachings for which other prophets had been driven out ages
         before: "And now I would that ye should know, that even since the
         days of Abraham there have been many prophets that have testified
         these things; yea, behold, the prophet Zenos did testify boldly;
         for the which he was slain. And behold, also Zenock, and also
         Ezias, and also Isaiah, and Jeremiah... and now we know that
         Jerusalem was destroyed according to the words of Jeremiah (they
         had learned the news from the Mulekites). O then, why not the Son
         of God come, according to this prophecy?" It was the double
         teaching of the destruction of the wicked of Israel and the coming
         of the Messiah that got all these men into trouble, including
         Lehi, Zenos, Zenock, and Ezias, all heretofore unknown prophets.
         Lehi was not the first to be chased out of Jerusalem and not the
         last. Today the [Dead Sea] Scrolls can tell us about that. They,
         too, mention forgotten prophets, driven out of Jerusalem because
         they denounced its wicked inhabitants and foretold the coming of
         the Messiah. 
         
         One of these was the now famous Teacher of Righteousness. Of him
         Father J. Danielou writes: "...between the great prophets of the
         Old Testament and John the Baptist he emerges as a new link ...
         one of the great figures of Israel's prophetic tradition. It is
         amazing that he remained so unknown for so long. Now that he is
         known the question arises as to what we are to do about this
         knowledge.... Why does not this message, then, form part of the
         inspired Scripture?" [Footnote: J. Danielou, The Dead Sea Scrolls
         and Primitive Christianity (New York: Mentor Omega Books, 1958),
         p.81.] The last question was prompted by the fact, pointed out by
         Danielou, that the prophet in question indubitably prophesied the
         coming of the Messiah many years before the event. So here we have
         a major prophet foretelling the coming of Christ but completely
         lost to the Christian and Jewish worlds. 
         
         It has often been pointed out that the scribes and pharisees of
         the New Testament, the legitimate descendants of "the Jews at
         Jerusalem" whom Nephi so often takes to task, after they had
         sought the death of the Lord and the apostles, also determined to
         eradicate every trace of Jewish apocalyptic thought as well.
         [Footnote: How well they succeeded is shown by Goodenough, op.
         cit. I, 20-21. (I believe this refers to E. R. Goodenough, Jewish
         Symbols)] That is why the line of Messianic prophets disappeared. 
         
         To judge by the Dead Sea Scrolls they were closely associated with
         the priestly line of Zadok - "the priests who remain true to the
         covenant" - which was also suppressed. [Footnote: Damascus
         Covenant, iv, 2; Battle Scroll, iii, 20f.] An important name in
         the Zadokite tradition was that of Enos, another vanished prophet;
         one of the first Nephite prophets also had that name. [Footnote:
         Enos is the name which John the Baptist gave himself; it is
         discussed by R. Eisler, Jesous Basileus, II, 26, 36, 42, 76, 107,
         etc. According to Jewish tradition, John the Baptist was the
         great-great-grandson of Zadok, who in turn was the
         great-great-grandson of Zadok, Tha'labi, Qissas al-Anbiyah, p.
         259.] Is the Zenes or Zenos, some fragments of whose words were
         first published in 1893, the same as our Book of Mormon Zenos?
         [Footnote: Under the title Visio Zenez (Kenaz), the fragments
         appear in M.R. James, Apocrypha Anecdota, Texts and Studies
         (Cambridge), II, 3 (1893), 179. The fact that this Zenes is the
         father of Othniel puts him right in the midst of the Qumran
         tradition.] At least the names can now be confirmed, as also the
         existence of a suppressed line of prophets and the fact that very
         great prophets have actually disappeared from sight because of
         their Messianic teachings. 
         
         Hugh Nibley, Since Cumorah, p 311-313.

    This brings to mind the prophecy of Nephi that after the scriptures of
    the Bible were to go forth, many plain and precious things would be
    taken out. Were there others whose records we do not have that
    prophesied as beautifully and forcefully of the coming of our Lord as
    did Isaiah? Yes, and the Book of Mormon is one such record that came to
    light many centuries later. Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain other
    such records. 
    
    In His Love,
    Rich
                  

    Re: .34 by Rich

    Very excellent note! Our lesson in gospel doctrine class this past Sunday
    touched indirectly on the portion of Rich's note below:

        >It has often been pointed out that the scribes and pharisees of
        >the New Testament, the legitimate descendants of "the Jews at
        >Jerusalem" whom Nephi so often takes to task, after they had
        >sought the death of the Lord and the apostles, also determined to
        >eradicate every trace of Jewish apocalyptic thought as well.

     The lesson on Sunday was on Jacob chapter 5, the famous allegory of the
     olive tree. As part of the lesson, we read Romans 11:16-21. In this seg-
     ment, Paul makes some points using wording almost identical to that used
     by Zenos as quoted by Jacob in the Book of Mormon. This is an evidence
     that Paul was aware of the scripture (verse 21 shows he had insight to
     a main topic in Zenos' prophecy not mentioned elsewhere in the Bible
     even by Paul). One peculiar point about his comments about the olive
     tree though, was that he didn't mention that he was quoting anyone.
     Earlier in the chapter (v. 9), he gives David credit for a statement
     he quotes. Could it be that the eradication process had already begun?
     Perhaps Paul knew of the prophecy of Zenos (and even considered it
     scripture) without being aware of the author. Of course, this may be
     only speculation, but the evidence is there.

     The main point of the lesson, however, was that NO ONE could have written
     the allegory of the olive tree as recorded in Jacob 5 without a deep and
     comprehensive understanding of not only both the history and future of the
     house of Israel, but also of the husbandry and behavior of olive trees.
     Several paragraphs were read describing the care and work necessary to
     successfully nurture these trees and also describing some of the peculiar
     attributes of olive trees, all of which fit in perfectly with the allegory.
     I don't have any of these quotes which were read--I'll try to get a copy
     from the teacher and post them here. I feel that the perfect conformance
     of the allegory to the history and prophesied future of Israel as well as
     to the peculiar husbandry and behavior of olive trees is one more evidence
     that the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be--more of the word of God,
     and another testament of Jesus the Messiah.

     With love,
     Dave H.

    The Book of Jarom in the Book of Mormon contains this interesting
    passage: 
    
         And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of
         the land, and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver,
         and in precious things, and in fine workmanship of wood, in
         buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and
         brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to
         till the ground, and weapons of war... 
         
         Jarom 1:8

    Some people have had a problem with the Book of Mormon, saying that
    there is no evidence of ancient American peoples having such
    metallurgical skills. However, as Daniel Ludlow puts it: 
    
         Jarom's statement that in his days the Nephites had become
         skilled in "fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in
         machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel,
         making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground,
         and weapons of war" would seem to indicate a very high state
         of civilization among these people of the fourth century B.C.
         Interestingly enough, archaeologists are now uncovering
         evidence from this time period that tends to verify this high
         state of civilization, Indeed, some archaeologists have now
         admitted that these people had some skills that we do not
         possess today. 
         
         Daniel Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Book of
         Mormon, p 167. 
         
    In addition, there is much evidence to indicate that iron and steel
    were known much earlier, even in the old world, than had originally
    been thought. 
    
    Rich

>>             Interestingly enough, archaeologists are now uncovering
>>         evidence from this time period that tends to verify this high
>>         state of civilization, Indeed, some archaeologists have now
>>         admitted that these people had some skills that we do not
>>         possess today. 
         
         
>>    In addition, there is much evidence to indicate that iron and steel
>>    were known much earlier, even in the old world, than had originally
>>    been thought. 
    
	This is just not true.  Can you present any non-MORMON
    proof/sources to verify this?
    
    

    My home teacher gave me a couple of thoughts that I thought would
    be good to post here.  He noted that when people attack the Church,
    they usually avoid attacking the Book of Mormon or current Church
    leaders and revelations.  Instead, they usually attack the history
    of the Church.  But, if one is faithful in their religion, there
    is almost an obligation to investigate the Book of Mormon whether
    it is true or false.
    
    The Church is one of the fastest-growing Christian denominations
    in the world.  As a result, any defender of the faith in another
    denomination would do well to study it so as to be aware of the
    falsehoods preached by the Church which uses this bood as a 
    cornerstone.  That is, of course, assuming the book is false.
    
    If the Book of Mormon is true, any defender of the faith would do
    well to read it so that they would understand its concepts and not
    jeopardize their salvation.
    
    Of course, critics of the Church may refuse to read it, which is their 
    choice.  But, experience has shown that most people who study the book 
    and pray about the validity of its contents experience joy and an 
    awakening of spirit as part of a witness to them of the validity of
    the book, regardless of whether they are seeking truth or falsehood
    within its covers.
    
    
    Steve

Re: .37

>>>    In addition, there is much evidence to indicate that iron and steel
>>>    were known much earlier, even in the old world, than had originally
>>>    been thought. 
>    
>	This is just not true.  Can you present any non-MORMON
>    proof/sources to verify this?
    
Hi Roger,

I've opened note 155 to discuss the use of metals, including iron, in ancient
America.

Allen

No passage in the Book of Mormon has been more often singled out for attack
than Lehi's description of himself as one "...whose limbs ye must soon lay
down in the cold and silent grave, from whence no traveler can return;..."
(2 Ne. 1:14.)  This passage has inspired scathing descriptions of the Book
of Mormon as a mass of stolen quotations "from Shakespeare and other English
poets."  Lehi does not quote Hamlet directly, to be sure, for he does not
talk of "that undiscovered country, from whose bourne no traveler returns,"
but simply speaks of "the cold and silent *grave*, from whence no traveler
can return."  In mentioning the grave, the eloquent old man cannot resist
the inevitable "cold and silent" nor the equally inevitable tag about the
traveler--a device that, with all respect to Shakespeare, Lehi's own
contemporaries made constant use of.  Long ago Friedrich Delitzsch wrote a
classic work on ancient Oriental ideas about death and after life, and a
fitting title of his book was 'Das Land ohne Heimkehr'--"The Land of No Return."
In the story of Ishtar's descent to the underworld the lady goes to the 'irsit
la tari', "the land of no return."  She visits "the dark house from which no
one ever comes out again," and travels along "the road on which there is no
turning back."  A recent study of Sumerian and Akkadian names for the world
of the dead lists prominently "the hole, the earth, the land of no return,
the path of no turning back, the road whose course never turns back, the
distant land, etc."  A recently discovered fragment speaks of the grave as
"the house of Irkallu, where those who have come to it are without return....A
place whose dead are cast in the dust, in the direction of darkness...(going)
to the place where they who came to it are without return."  This is a good
deal closer to Lehi's language than Shakespeare is.  The same sentiments are
found in Egyptian literature, as in a popular song which tells how "the gods
that were aforetime rest in their pyramids...None cometh again from thence that
he may tell of their state...Lo none may take his goods with him, and none
that hath gone may come again."  A literary text reports: "The mockers say, 'The
house of the inhabitants of the Land of the West is deep and dark; it has
no door and no window...there the sun never rises but they lie forever in
the dark.'"

Shakespeare should sue; but Lehi, a lover of poetic imagery and high-flown 
speech can hardly be denied the luxury of speaking as he was supposed to speak.
The ideas to which he here gives such familiar and conventional expression
are actually *not* his own ideas about life after death--nor Nephi's nor
Joseph Smith's, for that matter, but they are the ideas which any eloquent
man of Lehi's day, with a sound literary education such as Lehi had, would be
expected and required to use.  And so the most popular and obvious charge of
fraud against the Book of Mormon has backfired.

(Hugh Nibley, "An Approach to the Book of Mormon", pp. 239-240, his references
omitted)