Conference hbahba::giants

> Fassel is to use a play-calling system which is much more "QB friendly". 
> Under Reeves, Brown often had to call timeouts or rush to get a snap because
> it took so long to signal in plays AND Brown had to tell each player their
> assignment on the play.  Under Fassel, the play comes in and each player is
> responsible for knowing their assignment.

 Can't see how this will speed things up when it's still going to take Brown
 5 to 10 seconds per play to figure out his plan of egress.........

 z

Giants still suck.

That's old new.


New news is that DAve Parker and Mike Childs are now the moderators of this
fine conference.

I'm outta here, and probably won't get back in here after today.

So, here's the important stuff:


		Frank Way
		PO BOX 310976
		Newington CT 06131-0976


residing at

		70 Ponderosa Lane
		Newington CT 06111


phone		(860) 667-9969


new e-mail

		[email protected]  (available today I hear)



keep in touch, and lets swap mail during the season DEFINIELY.

Gonna miss you guys,


'Saw

First eight picks, according to Mel Kiper:

1 - Jets, Darrell Russell, DT, USC
2 - Raiders, Orlando Pace, OT, OSU
3 - Seahawks, Shawn Springs, CB, OSU
4 - Ravens, Peter Boulware, DE, FSU
5 - Lions, Bryant Westbrook, CB, Texas
6 - Rams, Walter Jones, OT, FSU
7 - Giants, Dwayne Rudd, LB, Alabama
8 - Buccaneers, Yatil Green, WR, Miami

According to which inside sources you speak to, the Giants either want Rudd or
Yatil Green.  Supposedly, some Giants insiders have said that Rudd is out
because he is too small.  Others say that, though they love his size, Green is
out due to "character" issues.  It could all be the Giants spreading FUD.

Also, Reeves still has the hots for Sehorn and is willing to consider letting
him play WR as well.  Reeves has called other teams and is trying to arrange a
deal in which the other team would sign Sehorn (forfeiting their 1st round pick
in the process) and then Reeves would trade his first round pick for Sehorn.  Of
course, he's dealing with teams in the lower third of the selection order...

Supposedly, he has checked with the league office about this and was told it was
against the spirit of the rules but appeared to be a loophole.  The risk is that
Tagliabue wouldn't rule on it unless it happened.  Therefore, the second team
could get stuck with Sehorn.

Heck, at least Reeves is trying to be creative - unlike our front office.

Pistol

Reeves now is saying that he is abandoning all efforts at landing Sehorn. 
Sehorn's agent is trying to make lots of noise - he wants to land a
multi-million contract for Sehorn.  The Giants are on the hook for $780K for the
upcoming season.

Pistol

A good bet for the Giants first pick this Saturday is that it will be either an
offensive lineman or wide receiver.  If available, Florida State tackle Walter
Jones would likely be grabbed by the Giants.  I read somewhere that a scout
referred to Jones' workout numbers as "freakish".  Jones thinks he's better than
Orlando Pace but scouts think that his smaller size won't allow him to dominate
DEs like Pace could.

If the Giants pick up Jones, Greg Bishop could be moved back to tackle - where
he belongs.  GY says that Jones isn't necessarily needed.  He believe Roman Oben
can fill in at left tackle.

At wide receiver, the Giants now appear to like Florida receiver Reidel Anthony.
If the Giants do go for a WR, it is likely that they'll be the first team to
pick one - so they'll get who they want.

Pistol

Why would they pass on Carruth if they went WR? I assume they'll pass on Green
because they find him to be less than an average citzen but I haven't heard any
noise about Carruth not being a standup guy. Carruth was the top rated WR I saw
in one grading system.

z

>Why would they pass on Carruth if they went WR?

Depends who you ask!  Some other NY papers are saying that they would go with
Carruth.

GY has admitted having discussions with other teams about trading picks.  The
Ravens, with the #4 pick, are one of those teams.  The Giants would love to step
up and grab Boulware or Jones.

Pistol

Young isn't admitting anything, but Art Modell said that the Giants are one of
the teams he has been speaking with regarding a trade for the #4 pick.  Detroit
and Tampa Bay are also interested.

Sources "close to the discussions" say the Giants have been asked for a 3rd
round pick in addition to their first rounder and, if they do make the move, it
will be to take offensive lineman, Walter Jones.

Pistol

    The Giants surprised everybody with the selection of Ike Hilliard. 
    Even Hilliard expected to go in the 20s of the first round. 
    Supposedly, he has more "polish" than the other top WRs.
    
    He may not have great size, but he isn't fast.  ;-)
    
    Seriously, he isn't considered a deep threat although he is reputed to
    be excellent after catching the ball.  But who needs a deep threat when
    the QB can't hit him?  And that's where Hilliard comes in...he is
    supposed to be outstanding when it comes to catching poorly thrown,
    inaccurate passes.
    
    The second pick, Tiki Barber, is a 3rd down pick of the Dave Meggett
    and Larry Centers mold.  Another guy to handle short passes from Brown.
    
    Has any mediocre QB like Brown been handled like this before?  The
    Giants seem intent to prove everybody wrong about Brown.
    
    Some info about the picks:
    
    Ike Hilliard - 5'-11", 4.6 40yd dash.  Runs good routes, can change
    directions on a dime.  Elusive after the catch.  Inconsistent blocker. 
    Was erractic for most of '96 season.
    
    Tiki Barber, RB - 5'-8", 203, 4.53 40yd dash.  Superb athelete, quick,
    excellent run vision & balance, elusive.  Has speed to get outside and
    can cut at almost full speed.  Catches well.  Dangerous punt returner
    and open-field runner.  Lacks great size.  May have to be restricted to
    a 3rd-down back and return specialist to keep him healthy.  Will fumble
    at times - especially if used heavily.  Size limits blocking skills and
    adding weight in past hurt his skills.
    
    Ryan Phillips, DL - 6'-3", 250, 4.67.  Strong & well-built.  Excellent
    effort and hustle.  Some pash-rush ability, good speed.  Could
    potentially play linebacker.  Hasn't played much LB and may be small
    for DL.  Lacks great first-step quickness.  Gets tied up with blocker
    at times.
    
    Brad Maynard, P - 6', 175, 4.58.  Very good all-around athelete.  As a
    holder, handles bad snaps well.  Can run or pass from punt formation. 
    Great leg strength and hang time.  Can place ball and hit sideline. 
    Can kick off with either foot!  Averaged 45.8 yards per punt in '96. 
    Does not always get his kicks off as quickly as scouts would like.
    
    Pete Monty, LB - 6'-1", 252, 4,82.  Good size & build.  Has strong
    lower body and "bubble butt" for power (Pro Football Weekly's
    comment!).  Relentless, instinctive and aware.  Quick to read and
    react, can slip blocks.  Durable.  Not an overly gifted athlete. 
    Average hands - drops some balls.
    
    Sam Garnes, DB - 6'-3", 227, 4.74.  Excellent size.  Played both free
    and strong safety.  Gets in on lots of tackles.  Lacks quick, smooth
    change of direction and man-on-man coverage skills.  Misses too many
    open field tackles.
    
    Mike Cherry, QB - 6'-3", 220, 5.05.  Nice size, stature, poise.  Stands
    in against the rush.  Productive and durable.  Not very mobile.  Can be
    erractic throwing the ball.  Avg accuracy when throwing on the move. 
    Puts too much air under his passes - questionable arm strength.
    
    Matt Keneley, DL - 6'-4", 286, 5.34.  Smart and dedicated.  Good
    instincts, recognizes blocking patterns and adjusts to them.  Lacks
    speed and overall athletic ability.  Plays too high...  
    
    Pistol
    

geez this Mike Cherry sound an awful lot like Brown. So Jimmy Johnson snookers
us again by getting us to pass on Yatil Green. It doesn't make any sense that
they pass on Green because of his reputation yet sign Christian Peter. Looks
like the best pick we made was the punter in the fourth..........

Pistol, Frank send me mail some mail yesterday and would like you to get in
touch with him. He forgot your address. He can be reached at:

 CRL::"[email protected]"


 z

I'll get in touch with him!

>It doesn't make any sense that they pass on Green because of his reputation yet
>sign Christian Peter.

What makes sense to me is that you don't need a deep threat unless you have a
quarterback to get it to him.  For a team with a garbage QB, Hilliard sounds
like the right choice.

I've heard criticism that the Giants don't have enough talent to be using two of
their higher picks on not-every-down players (3rd down back & punter).  I'm not
uncomfortable with the Tiki Barber pick (as long as he can adjust to garbage
balls!) and am pretty excited about the punter.  This guy is the highest rated
punter since Ray Guy.

No matter what, it's got to be an upgrade over what we had.

Pistol

'Saw says hi to all.

The Giants held their first rookie minicamp this weekend.  

Here's an interesting article about Christian Peters from the NYTimes.

Pistol

----

          [E] AST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- In a scuffle on Friday, the
              Giants' rookie defensive lineman Christian Peter
          grabbed the face mask of the second-round draft pick
          Tiki Barber, then tried to twist it off as if were the
          cap on a bottle of club soda. Welcome to the National
          Football League, Tiki, one rookie to another.

          It was Peter's third scuffle of the rookie minicamp --
          but it would not be his last.

          Peter did his best George Foreman imitation on Saturday,
          slugging it out in a brawl with offensive lineman Steve
          Misetic. This was not one of your typical scuffles. This
          was a street fight -- and neither player was wearing
          pads to cushion the blows.

          When Coach Jim Fassel yelled for other players to break
          up the fight, which went on for about 20 seconds with
          both Peter and Misetic swinging wildly, the other
          players stared at each other, waiting for someone else
          to move first. They must have thought that stepping in
          front of a raging Peter was not exactly what they had
          signed up for.

          Eventually, several players broke up the fight. Peter
          then did something interesting. After the fight was
          over, he walked toward a corner of the practice field
          and jogged a lap around the field as the team continued
          to practice. It was the equivalent of sitting himself in
          the corner.

          It is not a surprise that players hesitated to break up
          the fight. Some of the Giants say they are reluctant to
          go near Peter -- either on the field or off it --
          because they never know when Peter will pop off. But
          they may be mistaking passion for anger.

          During a drill Sunday, Peter made a mistake, berated
          himself, then shoved the seventh-round pick Matt
          Keneley, another defensive lineman, out of the way and
          did the drill again. This time Peter did it right.
          Keneley may have been next in line, but Peter was so
          eager to correct himself that he didn't nudge Keneley
          aside, he pushed him. Peter later apologized to Keneley.

          "Quite honestly, it doesn't bother me a bit," Fassel
          said when asked about Peter's skirmishes. "I don't mind
          guys who are tough guys and mix it up a bit."

          Who can blame Fassel for liking what he has seen thus
          far? Peter has talent, never quits and has great fire.

          For the most part, signing Peter has been nothing but a
          tremendous upside for the Giants so far. Yet there are
          some issues the Giants must deal with.

          Peter, whom the Giants do not allow to speak with
          members of the news media for now, is not just any
          player. He has showed in the past, at the University of
          Nebraska, that off the field he has trouble controlling
          his anger and aggression.

          So the question for the Giants is, will the scuffles and
          fights he got into over the weekend translate into
          off-the-field problems later in his career?

          Right now, the evidence suggests that Peter can limit
          his combativeness to football; he has been solid thus
          far. He has made it to his sessions with the team
          psychologist. He works hard in the weight room. He has
          proved to be a quick learner. He responds well to
          coaching. Fassel spoke to Peter on Saturday morning --
          before the fight with Misetic -- to tell him that he
          liked his enthusiasm, and to remind him to keep
          following the strict rules the Giants have outlined for
          him (including therapy sessions and alcohol
          rehabilitation).

          The exuberance and ferocity Peter has so far
          demonstrated on the field can be nothing but an asset to
          the Giants. In fact, those qualities are sorely needed
          by the team. But the Giants need Peter to be an animal
          on the field, not a predator off it.

          While at Nebraska, Peter was arrested eight times and
          convicted four times on a variety of charges, including
          third-degree sexual assault. The Giants are convinced
          that he has changed his ways, which is why they signed
          him as a free agent.

          Based on what has happened in minicamp -- and it is
          early -- there is a distinct possibility that the Giants
          may end up cutting one of their high-priced defensive
          linemen and replacing him with Peter, who will earn the
          league minimum of $131,000 next season.

          Moral issues are for wimps in professional football, and
          the time to debate whether the Giants should have signed
          the troubled Peter is long gone. Besides, what a player
          did in the past -- whether or not he took his
          grandmother to church, whether or not he has been
          convicted of assault -- is irrelevant to many teams,
          including the Giants. The questions are: What can the
          player do for the team, and what kind of risk is the
          team taking in signing him? In actuality, the Giants
          don't care about Peter the person; they care about Peter
          the player.

          If he becomes an outstanding citizen in the process,
          then that is a bonus. But it is not a requirement.

when he pops off and hits Fassel, I wonder what Jimmy will think then. I hope
he can keep his aggression limited to the football field, we certainly can use
him bit I feel like he's a timebomb with the fuse already lit. He absolutely
must stay away from alchol. A coupl eof drinks and the fuse is going to burn
like it's been dipped in kerosene. Just irks me that his character doesn't 
matter but Yatli Green's did........

z

Are you sure Green's character came into play?

FWIW - Troy Aikman did a tour of college campuses during which he worked out all
the top receivers.  His assessment of the crop was that Hilliard was the best. 
Supposedly, at least one other team had him rated highly and would have grabbed
him at #8-#10 if the Giants hadn't grabbed him.

You have some personal relation to Green?  ;-)

Pistol

PS - I think you are right about Peters.  That's one guy who had better be
supervised closely.

 that's what I read. They weren't impressed with his attitude. The usual in your
 face I did something great attitude that premates at Miami. Plus he was        
 injuried a bit during his senior year but the three biggest games of the year
 he caught atleast 8 balls and amassed over 150 yards (Virgina Tech, Syracuse
 and I forget who they played in the final bowl game). I'm telling ya Jimmy
 Johnson had him fake the injuries so he'd drop. Hillard's steady and not a
 bad pick but Green is a playmaker. He's bigger, and faster. Still though as
 has been pointed out what good is as long as Duck's around..........

 Hillard probably called him Mr. Aikman or something......

 z

Saturday, Aug. 2  N.Y. Giants at Baltimore, 8 p.m.
Saturday, Aug. 9  Jacksonville at N.Y. Giants, 8 p.m.
Saturday, Aug. 16 N.Y. Jets at N.Y. Giants, 8 p.m.
Friday, Aug. 22   N.Y. Giants vs. Green Bay at Madison, Wis., 8 p.m.

Pistol

I wasn't aware of this, but when a team gets a new coach, they are allowed more
veteran minicamps (3) than they would normally get (1).  They also are allowed
more time on the practice field.  Give the guy some credit, Fassel is using
every minute that he is allowed.  Across the Metro area, Parcells is not - he's
sticking to a single minicamp.

This past weekend was the Giants second veteran minicamp.  Fassel installed the
shotgun and 3rd down packages into the offense.  During practice, Brown threw a
disturbingly high number of defended and intercepted passes.  Of course, he had
an excuse at the ready - the defense new they were concentrating on the short
pass and were cheating.  Fassel noted that once in a while, when they snuck in a
long route, the WR was open.  I found it interesting that he didn't say that
Brown completed a long pass - just that the WR was open...

Pistol

    RE: Peters
    
    I think an interesting question is if Peters can control himself on the
    field too.  When the other team starts taunting him about his rep are
    we going to end up with a bunch of personal foul penalties.  And what
    if he decides to go after a ref ?  We'll just have to wait and see but,
    he could be another Brian Cox.
    
    Grub
    

you're right Grub, I hadn't even given the taunting by the opposistion a thought.

z

    I'm for him.  He sounds like a Raider....We need someone with attitude
    and fire.  You guys complain about the , "Good Citizen" picks and now
    with a player with an attitude comes in your contradicting yourselfs.
    You can't have both.  He  fires up the team then great.  He gets a 
    personal foul, fine, makes the QB aware that there is a reckless
    machine out there trying to get to him.  You don't think this is going 
    to play games with their head?  Especially if he gets a hit. Anger is
    energy. Giving this guys anger I think taunting him would be futile on 
    behalf of the OL part.  Anyways, OL usually don't do alot of taunting.
    DB's, WR's, some RB's.  High profile positions produce taunters. I like
    him because he sounds like a stick of dynamite looking for perfection
    on the field.  Other attitudes issues that would result in teams
    shunning is lack of motivation which possibly Green had. Maybe it was
    the opposite. He didn't feel conditioning and training was all that
    neccessary. Peters is the defensive fire this teams need. Hopefully
    he can control his off field issues and vent on the field. Wouldn't it
    be nice to have an offense afraid again, like the old LT days?  Let him
    kick *ss on the field as long as it stays there. He might bring the 
    rest of the defense up a notch, and this is out of the norm for Young
    to allow such a player so one for Fassell.
    
    		Taz

    He could work out fine.  It depends on how smart he is.  Since I don't
    know him personally, I don't know how this will play out.  If he's dumb
    and can't control his anger he'll be picking up that personal foul at
    the wrong time (like 3rd and 10 in the 4rth quarter of a close game).
    Someone on the other team will be trying to get him to blow his cool at
    exactly that critical time in the game because it's just smart
    football.  Brian Cox could never fiqure this out.  If Peter's is smart
    he won't fall for it.
    
    Remember Parcells liked his defense to have a lot of fire and LT
    usually provided it but, you never or rarely saw LT or anybody else
    pick up a personal foul penalty because Parcells just wouldn't stand
    for it.
    
    Grub
     

LT? You mean the guy who rob Joe Morris out of his MVP honor that magical year?

Been too quiet lately in here.  True, not much has been happening...

Some news:

* The Giants are reportedly only $500,000 under the cap and need room to sign
their draft picks.  They are negotiating with Strahan in an attempt to
restructure his contract to free up more cap space.

* Jim Fassel is apparently very pleased with the progress Cedric Jones has made
during the offseason.  He's upped his bench press from 330 to 405 pounds.

* The voluntary workouts during May have been well attended and lots of progress
has been made towards learning the new systems being put in place.  I believe
the final minicamp is this weekend.

* Wheatley and Duff have both returned to practice.  Neither was expected back
until training camp in July, so both are way ahead in their rehab.

* Sparks suffered a stress fracture in his left foot and will miss the minicamp
but should be full strength when training camp opens.

* Stan White, who injured his shoulder while playing in the WLAF, has returned
from Europe for treatment of the shoulder.

Pistol

The Giants unveiled Christian Peters to the media yesterday.  GY and the team
head-shrink accompanied him.  Basically, time was spent talking about his alchol
and violence problems.  Nothing new...

What was new was that we heard that the team psychologist was enamored with
Peters regret for his actions when he was available for the draft.  After the
Patriots cut him, Greenberg went to Mara and suggested that they sign him then. 
Mara wasn't interested but said he would reconsider if Peters committed to
therapy, etc.  The rest is history...

On June 1, teams can release players without the remaining portion of their
signing bonuses applying to the cap for this year (instead, it is prorated over
the life of the player's contract).  Ray Agnew is one name being mentioned as a
possible cut.  Christian Peters, at $131,000 a year, is an attractive
alternative to the relatively high-priced Agnew.

Pistol

The Giants cut Ray Agnew, as expected, yesterday.  The move frees up $1.2M in
cap dollars.

They continue to try to renegotiate with Strahan.....

Pistol