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Conference iosg::all-in-1_v30

Title:*OLD* ALL-IN-1 (tm) Support Conference
Notice:Closed - See Note 4331.l to move to IOSG::ALL-IN-1
Moderator:IOSG::PYE
Created:Thu Jan 30 1992
Last Modified:Tue Jan 23 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4343
Total number of notes:18308

2844.0. "Backup without ALL-IN-1 Shutdown" by JULIET::DRUMMOND_RO () Thu Jun 10 1993 19:05

    I have a customer with a 4-node cluster and ALL-IN-1 as the primary 
    application.  They currently do not have a satisfactory BACKUP
    strategy and they're asking for help.  On occasion, they need to do
    backups without shutting down ALL-IN-1 but in the past, they've run into
    the problems mentioned in 1271 and 2508.
    
    They are considering using shadowsets, shut down ALL-IN-1, break up the
    shadowset, restart ALL-IN-1, do an image backup of the idle shadow
    member, and then restore the shadowset.  The goal is to minimize backup
    downtime and get a reliable backup.  Will this work?  Any other ideas? 
    Are we doing (or have we done) anything to address this issue?
    
    Thanks for the help,
    
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2844.1Here's An Example ...ATLANA::SHERMANDebt Free!Thu Jun 10 1993 19:5452
    Hi Robin,

    As an example, here is the BACKUP strategy in use in the Southern States
    Region on their six production ALL-IN-1 clusters:

    Incremental BACKUP's of all disks are done 4 nights per week and full
    BACKUP's are done one night per week (scheduled for 7:00 P.M. local time),
    all using the /IGNORE=INTERLOCK switch.
 
    Each morning at 12:30 A.M., ALL-IN-1 maintenance processing is performed.
    Some of the daily activities are done without ALL-IN-1 shut down, however,
    all system file convert activities require ALL-IN-1 to be shut down.  We 
    do the SDAF converts by using BACKUP to copy the SDAF(s) to a designated
    work disk, then deleting the source copy of the SDAF, then RMS CONVERTing
    the copy back to the live SDAF location with a temporary name, renaming
    the newly converted SDAF to the correct filename.  The next evening's 
    regularly scheduled BACKUP will pickup a copy of the SDAF(s) from the 
    convert work disk.  (An extract of this morning's logfile is included
    after the <FF>)

    The net result of this activity is minimum unavailability of ALL-IN-1,
    a reliable, restorable BACKUP of the system files, and a contiguous
    SDAF that helps in all electronic mail processing by both our customers
    and the ALL-IN-1 Sender/Fetcher processes.

    By the way, this same information could be obtained from your local CNS
    (nee' IM&T, nee' DIS, nee' IS, nee' MIS) group, who do these activities
    for their customers (you are one!) every day, with minimum disruption.

    Hthy,

	Ron


 Converting OA$SHARA:OA$DAF_A.DAT - starting at 10-JUN-1993 00:49:12.18
 %DELETE-I-FILDEL, CONV$WORK:[ALLIN1]OA$DAF_A.TMP;1 deleted (750000 blocks)
 %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created CONV$WORK:[ALLIN1]OA$DAF_A.TMP;1
 %DELETE-I-FILDEL, NEWDAF:[OA$SHARA]OA$DAF_A.DAT;1 deleted (750000 blocks)

 CONVERT Statistics
 Number of Files Processed:         1
 Total Records Processed:      344066	Buffered I/O Count: 	      12
 Total Exception Records:           0	Direct I/O Count: 	   67457
 Total Valid Records:          344066	Page Faults: 		     299
 Elapsed Time:          0 00:27:22.92	CPU Time:          0 00:08:05.06

 %RENAME-I-RENAMED, NEWDAF:[OA$SHARA]OA$DAF_A.NEW;1 renamed to (my <CR><LF>)
    NEWDAF:[OA$SHARA]OA$DAF_A.DAT;1
 File converted using FDL file OA2$:[ALLIN1]OA$DAF_A.FDL;1.
 Originally was 750000 blocks - current is 748000 blocks.

 ...end...
2844.2Moved from 2954FLEX7::ALLINGHAM_PDPermenantly Peaking!Thu Jul 01 1993 13:4529
    I have been unable to find any information in the Vol Shadowing or VMS
    Notes conference files on this topic so here's a question for the
    inhabitants of ALL-IN-Wonderland.
    
    I have a customer who, at present, doesn't like the idea of shutting
    down ALL-IN-1 each night to do backups - I think he's had problems
    restarting in the past.  Instead, he sets off batch jobs at around
    22h00 which break up his shadow sets and then take copies of the
    'lower' disks to tapes and then remounds the shadow sets when he's
    done.
    
    I know that /IGNORE=INTERLOCK is potentially damaging to your ALL-IN-1
    Systems health and an I know why, but is the breaking of a shadow set
    with, say, open SDAF's, PENDING.DAT's etc. a good move.
    
    My own view is that he'd be much better off shutting everything down
    and doing proper backups.  I can, so far, talk him out of backing up
    with /IGNORE=INTERLOCK as I can explain why he shouldn't do it but can
    anyone come up with a reason whey the Shadow Set split option isn't a
    good idea either?
    
    I can't explain why I don't like it... I just have a very bad
    feeling..!
    
    All input gratefully received!
    
    Regards,
    
    Peter.
2844.3Shut down briefly?IOSG::PYEGraham - ALL-IN-1 Sorcerer&#039;s ApprenticeThu Jul 01 1993 17:0012
    One thing that occurs to me is that it would be worth *briefly*
    shutting down ALL-IN-1 whilst you take the shadow set members off-line,
    in order that the SDAF, DOCDBs etc., are in a consistent state. I
    presume that you could bring the shadow sets back whilst the system was
    still running.
    
    Otherwise, it seems like a good idea.
    
    Graham
    
    PS a reply to the previous note in its original location suggested
    other discussion in notes 1271 and 2508.
2844.4Have to "disolve" the shadow set firstMIMS::HUSSEY_DIt&#039;s a CHILD, not a choiceThu Jul 01 1993 17:1610
    Actually, you need to dismount the shadow set first, then remount it
    excluding the member to be used as the backup source.  This is to
    insure that all in-memory caches have been flushed and the physical
    disks are in a consistant state.  Otherwise, you risk restoring a
    corrupted set of files.  You can add the backup source to the shadow
    set at any time after you/ve finished the backup.
    
    Good luck,
    
    David
2844.5It's great unless you want to restore!IOSG::CHINNICKgone walkaboutFri Jul 02 1993 15:4737
    
    Hi,
    
    I think I'd have to agree with Graham's comments...
    
    I would not dismount a member of the shadow set for BACKUP while
    ALL-IN-1 is up. 
    
    There are a few reasons for this:
    
    	1. Even though RMS I/O is write-thru on the ALL-IN-1 data files, it
           is still possible that you could get RMS structure
           inconsistencies from the dismounted shadow set member. This is
           because some RMS operations such as bucket splits require multiple
           bucket I/Os and you could end up dismounting between these
           operations. [Of course, if you could guarentee no users, then
    	   that would probably prove sufficient but the best way to do this
    	   is to shutdown ALL-IN-1.]
    
        2. Even if the updates to the RMS file left the RMS structures
    	   consistent, you could catch the ALL-IN-1 DAF operations between
    	   RMS records and still get an inconsistent DAF file.
    
    
    The best way of backing up ALL-IN-1 systems is with ALL-IN-1 shut down.
    The worst way of backing up ALL-IN-1 systems is BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK
    Breaking a shadow set is almost equivalent to the latter.
    
    Just one final point on backups:
    
    You should also try to ensure that your cabinet files, shared areas and
    user accounts are backed up "in synch". If the user files aren't in
    synch with the system files then you will have to make sure that
    TRM/TRU are used to get them back in synch in the event that one set is
    restored without the other. Otherwise you'll have usage counts way out.
    
    Paul.