Conference iosg::all-in-1_v30

    Good morning, Mr. Clark,
    
    I think because of those funny new kind of menus in CM, the option
    doesn't appear unless you have a form selected.  Could this be the
    problem?
    
    -- Paul

    Mr Trotta is as usual correct however he obviously hasn't finished
    the self-paced course I gave him (:==:) because he would have known
    that the techie term for "funny" menus is "context-sensitive"
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Terry,
    
    After you select the form in your current item block on the CM menu as
    Paul suggests, you need to NEXT SCREEN to the very last overlay menu
    (this happens to be the menu after the Application maintainer (AM)
    menu) and there you will see the CFI option. 
    
    -- Jill  

    
    Thank you gentleman, I believe that answers my question.
    
    Regards,
    
    Terry
    
    re: .1
    
    	Mr. Trotta, you could have just stood up and yelled across the
    	room.  ;-)

    
    Paul,
    
    Glad you think the CM menus are funny, but do you feel they're still
    funny when using them. Context-sensitive is the word, but what would be
    interesting is if it's a way to go?
    
    Ciao,
    
    	Simon

    The translation group would like us to use them everywhere, since
    they're easier to translate. Or at least it's much easier to make sure
    that the menu option on the screen and the thing that you type to get
    that menu option executed are the same!
    
    But what a change implementing that everywhere would be!
    
    Graham

    [Sticking my neck out here... ;-)] It's not usually a good idea
    to 'surprise' end users in any way on an interface. Terry was,
    I think, 'surprised' because he couldn't find an option that he
    thought should be there. While context-sensitive menus are a good 
    thing for people who know what they're doing, I'd be very wary 
    about introducing them to the main sub-systems of ALL-IN-1. 
    IMHO,
    DaveT 

    Dave,
    
    At the risk of stirring up a hornets nest and with the direction this
    note is taking should we continue it in ABBOTT::A1INFO.
    
    Both GAP's reason (translation) and your reason (user-confusion)  are
    things to take into account and I hope that before c-s menus reproduce
    and start appearing in EM or FC that we also consider the
    support-impact.
    
    As Simon at least knows I'm a partial convert to c-s menus and if even I can
    create one then they must be easy!. However i'm not yet in
    the religious sect that believes that they should be compulsory for
    everyone over the age of 18 (:==:)
    
    Guess i'm not going to get in trouble again for saying that!
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks                    

    What the context sensitive menus lack is the visual cue that there are
    other options, but that they're not available at this time - in GUIs
    these would be `greyed out' options.

    Paul.

    Re .8
    
    My view is that A1INFO is an appropriate place to reveal information
    about things we've already decided we're going to do. This conference,
    due to its much wider readership is appropriate for "would you use a"
    or what would you think if we removed X" sort of questions, without any
    commitment that we were actually very likely to do any such thing.
    
    In this case, although Germany asked us to do this to all the menus in
    V3.0, as you can see, we didn't, and at the moment, we aren't busy
    doing it for a PFR either. As a result of this discussion, we might or
    might not!
    
    Re .-several
    
    For translation purposes, the menus wouldn't be context sensitive,
    they'd just be a different way of displaying the menus we have now. So
    for example EMC1,2,3 etc. would be replaced by one menu with a scrolled
    region that you could do next screen on a few times. Almost certainly,
    all the options would be always available.
    
    I'm not sure that I like the idea much either, but I haven't seen one
    prototyped to try it for long enough to definitely make up my mind, my
    r�le here is just to explain why it would be useful.
    
    If you imagine the amount of effort involved in translating 16 or more
    language versions, and then testing the 15 that aren't in your language
    to make sure that when you type ��qz the corresponding functionality is
    executed as described on the screen in a language you can't read, then
    you can perhaps see that having the screen image and the menu option in
    named data coming from the same source would help you considerably. Any
    help in making the translated versions (which are substantially more
    than half of everything we ship) come on stream, and hence earn revenue
    for the corporation, faster has got to be good news for me!
    
    Graham

    The old "DECmail-like" (EMD...) menus were done partly because DECmail
    was "context sensitive" (wouldn't show you options that didn't work in
    the current context). With the "technology" as it was then, this was
    trciky to do - we had to write a whole bunch of menus which were almost
    the same except for the lack of one or two options, and then select (by
    Bliss code!) the appropraite one.
    
    Would be much easier to do nowadays.
    
    Dave.

    By the way, you don't have to scroll through all of the context
    sensitive menus to get to the CFI option. Just select a form element
    and type the option in.
    
    Tony

    Hi,
    
    Can't find the CFI option in ALL-IN-1/SVENSKA v3.0.
    
    All options in CM$OPTIONS$TYPE Element-type=FRM, Option-type=01 can't
    be seen on the screen after "AM" is seen. 
       
    Current element type is FRM.
    
    Whats wrong?
    
    Best Regards
    LOM
    

Hi 

Yes there's also a problem with CM$_SCLATFIRST CM$SCLATLAST vs. OA$_.
Simon has changed this at a ATS at CoV for form CM$INDEX$OPTIONS$MENU and
CM$MAIN.

Maybe apply these changes (change from CM$_SCLATFIRST to OA$_SCLATFIRST, 
				       CM$_SCLATLAST  to OA$SCLATLAST)
then it'll work.
 
Or is there another fix possible.

Simon, didn't you SPR'd this for being fixed in a PFR ???
Greetings from Vienna and best regards 


Charly
                                         
	        1) CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT
         
                    Element: CM$INDEX$OPTIONS$MENU
                    Type:    FRM
                    Area:    GERMAN
                    Option:  Named data of live form
         
                 2) CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT
         
                    Element: CM$INDEX$OPTIONS$MENU
                    Type:    FRM
                    Area:    GERMAN
                    Option:  Named data of base form
         
         ----------------------------- Differences 
         --------------------------------------
         ************
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            72   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS OA$_SCLATFIRST AND 
         #CM_INDEX_OPTIONS_PHANTOM EQS
            73    "*CM_INDEX_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN OA$FLD_EXIT\\OA$MSG_PURGE
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            72   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATFIRST AND 
         #CM_INDEX_OPTIONS_PHANTOM EQS
            73    "*CM_INDEX_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN OA$FLD_EXIT\\OA$MSG_PURGE
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            72   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATFIRST AND 
         #CM_INDEX_OPTIONS_PHANTOM EQS
         ************M_INDEX_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN OA$FLD_EXIT\\OA$MSG_PURGE
         ************
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            79   \.IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS OA$_SCLATFIRST AND 
         #CM_INDEX_OPTIONS_PHANTOM NES
            80    "*CM_INDEX_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN XOP "~~BACK_PHANTOM_LAST_PAGE~~"
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            79   \.IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATFIRST AND 
         #CM_INDEX_OPTIONS_PHANTOM NES
            80    "*CM_INDEX_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN XOP "~~BACK_PHANTOM_LAST_PAGE~~"
         ************
         ************
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            94   \.IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS OA$_SCLATLAST THEN XOP "~~FIRST_PAGE~~"
            95
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
            94   \.IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATLAST THEN XOP "~~FIRST_PAGE~~"
            95
         ************************
         Number of difference sections found: 3
         Number of difference records found: 3
         
         DIFFERENCES 
         /IGNORE=()/MERGED=1/OUTPUT=DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_RETRIE
         VED_DIFFERENCES.TXT;1-
          
         
         
         
                 1) CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT
         
                    Element: CM$MAIN
                    Type:    FRM
                    Area:    GERMAN
                    Option:  Named data of live form
         
                 2) CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT
         
                    Element: CM$MAIN
                    Type:    FRM
                    Area:    GERMAN
                    Option:  Named data of base form
         
         ----------------------------- Differences --------------------------------------
         ************
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT;1
           257   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS OA$_SCLATFIRST AND #CM_OPTIONS_PHANTOM EQS
           258    "*CM1_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN OA$FLD_EXIT\\OA$MSG_PURGE
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
           257   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATFIRST AND #CM_OPTIONS_PHANTOM EQS
           258    "*CM1_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN OA$FLD_EXIT\\OA$MSG_PURGE
             
         ************
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT;1
           264   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS OA$_SCLATFIRST AND #CM_OPTIONS_PHANTOM NES
           265    "*CM1_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN XOP "~~BACK_PHANTOM_LAST_PAGE~~"
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
           264   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATFIRST AND #CM_OPTIONS_PHANTOM NES
           265    "*CM1_MENU_OPTIONS" THEN XOP "~~BACK_PHANTOM_LAST_PAGE~~"
         ************
         ************
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_FIRST_ELEMENT.TXT;1
           277   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS OA$_SCLATLAST THEN XOP "~~FIRST_PAGE~~"
           278
         ******
         File DISK$USER1:[EHRLICH.IBS.OA$TEMP]CM_SECOND_ELEMENT.TXT;1
           277   .IF OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLATLAST THEN XOP "~~FIRST_PAGE~~"
           278
         ************
         
         Number of difference sections found: 3
         Number of difference records found: 3
         
         
    

    
    Hi,
    
    Yes, this has been SPRd. Awaiting a final solution a better solution is
    to change:
    
    	OA$MSG_TEXT EQS CM$_SCLAT*
    
    to:
    
    	OA$MSG_ID EQS "SCLATFIRST"
    
    or:
    
    	OA$MSG_ID EQS "SCLATLAST"
    
    Ciao,
    
    	Simon
    
    
    PS I18N problems used to be my favourite when working for the LEG in
    Holland...