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Conference iosg::all-in-1_v30

Title:*OLD* ALL-IN-1 (tm) Support Conference
Notice:Closed - See Note 4331.l to move to IOSG::ALL-IN-1
Moderator:IOSG::PYE
Created:Thu Jan 30 1992
Last Modified:Tue Jan 23 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4343
Total number of notes:18308

399.0. "V3.0 CM questions" by 42052::JOYCE (DCL dinosaurs on demand...) Thu Apr 02 1992 16:36

    
    I'm just starting my sweaty fumblings with V3.0 CM and I've got a
    couple of questions...
    
    1) 	From MANAGER I made another user an application maintainer (using
    the MAP option on the AM screen). The user was not granted the
    OA$MANAPP rights id. Why? (fwiw: I think the user was already an
    authorised programmer for the OA area)
    
    2)	If PRVAPP is "A" does that make a user an application maintainer
    for ALL areas? I guess not - they also need to be authorised using the
    MAP option foe each application area - but can someone confirm this?
    
    3)	I created an ENTRY form with a segmented key. The named data looked
    a bit like this...
    
    ;;.TYPE;;
    
    ENTRY/MODE=UPDATE/KEY=SNAME,FNAME
    
    ;;.FILE;;
    
    OAUSER:GUITARIST.DAT,GUITARIST.FDL
    
    As I had set up the Element Search Order to include the GUIT_MAIN
    application area development directory, I assumed that ALL-IN-1 would
    find the FDL (which I had created using CM) there. I tried using the
    CFI option and it failed with a something like "Error !AS - couldn't
    open file". I checked that my CM search order include this development
    area - it did. I eventually gave up and changed to .FILE nd to
    
    ;;.FILE;;
    
    OAUSER:GUITARIST.DAT,OA$SITE_DEV_GUIT_MAIN:GUITARIST.FDL
          
    and then CFI creates the file ok. BUT this means I'll have to edit the
    nd again before I make the thing live.
    
    I assume (and I haven't checked it out yet) that when the application 
    is made live I would have set up an ESO element and done
    whatever else I have to do to set the serach order when the user runs
    the application.
    
    Am I on the wrong track here? Does the CFI option use the element
    search order to look for an FDL?
    
    4)	As a programmer I "MLA"ed some elements. I then thought I'd try the
    Notify Maintainer option (NM). It said something like "No current
    message". I was under the impression that a message would be generated
    automatically?
    
    5)	Can anyone give a consise explanation as to why, when I create an
    application area (SM CSZ MA CA) I get an unbelievably complex directory
    structure created? It seems to create a sub-dir for every element type
    (about 20 I think at last count) under this "received" area which I'm
    not sure of the use off, even after reading the documentation.	
    
    6)	I used the DAL (define application logicals) option and it seemed
    to go through all the authorised areas "Checking...". Only for some of
    these did it define a system logical name. Why?
    
    7)	Where is the Startup field in CM$APP used? Is there some magic
    worked by A1v30start to startup all the applications in CM$APP?
    
    
    Thanks in advance for any help.
    
    
    Andy
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
399.1But what do I know about CM??AIMTEC::WICKS_AVote Bill'n'Opus for a weirder USAThu Apr 02 1992 17:4336
    Andy,
    
    Until Tony or Simon stop by here's some quick answers
    
    1) I've already QAR'd this - the workaround is of course to add it
       by hand.
    
    2) You're right
    
    3) don't know
    
    4) You do still have the element that's in "Move Pending" current
       don't you - if you have some other element that's in Deleted or
       or Locked etc you'll see a message like the one you see.
    
    5) This is the way it was designed. 
       There's one subdirectory for each STANDARD element type defined
       in CM$ETYPES.
    
       I do agree that the documentatio surrounding Applications and Areas in 
       the Management Guide is extremely concise (i'm being polite here!) 
       - I believe that there will be some info update articles coming on this.
       Also element types isn't documented at all.
    
    6) DAL only defines the ones it needs to - if you just see a "checking"
       message then it means that the one it's looking at has already been
       defined.
    
    7) Yes it is magic! Look at a DO script called CM_DEFINE_DEV_LOGS
       which is called from A1V30START.COM
    
    There that's a start until the real CM+ experts check in.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks 
399.2Re: Q3SHALOT::LAMPSONWhatever ya do, ya gotta have FUN!Thu Apr 02 1992 21:0210
        Regarding question 3, I believe the problem is that the
        information on the .FILE Named Data line does not use the 
        file search order.  This means that GUITARIST.FDL must exist
        in whatever directory is you current default directory (usually
        OAUSER, but not always).  The safest thing to do with .FDLs 
        in a .FILE line is to use an explicit directory location.
        Then you will need to create your .FDL file, move it to live
        and THEN do a CFI to create a file for your current entry form.
        
        _Mike
399.3Answers?SIOG::T_REDMONDThoughts of an Idle MindFri Apr 03 1992 11:12148
Note 399.0                      V3.0 CM questions                      2 replies
42052::JOYCE "DCL dinosaurs on demand..."            69 lines   2-APR-1992 15:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    I'm just starting my sweaty fumblings with V3.0 CM and I've got a
>    couple of questions...
 
    Great!   But can you stop sweating in case your output renders the
    keyboard unusable for others?
    
    > 1)From MANAGER I made another user an application maintainer (using
    > the MAP option on the AM screen). The user was not granted the
    > OA$MANAPP rights id. Why? (fwiw: I think the user was already an
    > authorised programmer for the OA area)
    
    Make users maintainers by setting the PRVAPP flag in profile. We'll fix
    the bug that you (and Andrew) have noted in a PFR.
    
    >2)	If PRVAPP is "A" does that make a user an application maintainer
    >for ALL areas? I guess not - they also need to be authorised using the
    >MAP option foe each application area - but can someone confirm this?
    
    No, the phantom data set *CMREADAREAS defines the areas you have access
    to. If you can't access an area you can't act as a maintainer. But once
    you are added to the list of authorized programmers (MAP option) you
    can be allocated maintainer status. Note that the OA$MANAPP identifier,
    which is what you get when PRVAPP is set in the profile, only allows
    you access to some files. CM+ imposes its own checking against the
    maintainer flag in CM$AUTH$USERS to stop you taking maintainer options
    for an area if you don't have the privilege.
    
    > 3) I created an ENTRY form with a segmented key. The named data looked
    > a bit like this...
    
    ;;.TYPE;;
    
    ENTRY/MODE=UPDATE/KEY=SNAME,FNAME
    
    ;;.FILE;;
    
    OAUSER:GUITARIST.DAT,GUITARIST.FDL
    
    > As I had set up the Element Search Order to include the GUIT_MAIN
    > application area development directory, I assumed that ALL-IN-1 would
    > find the FDL (which I had created using CM) there. I tried using the
    > CFI option and it failed with a something like "Error !AS - couldn't
    > open file". I checked that my CM search order include this development
    > area - it did. I eventually gave up and changed to .FILE nd to
    
    ;;.FILE;;
    
    OAUSER:GUITARIST.DAT,OA$SITE_DEV_GUIT_MAIN:GUITARIST.FDL
          
    > and then CFI creates the file ok. BUT this means I'll have to edit the
    > nd again before I make the thing live.
    
    > I assume (and I haven't checked it out yet) that when the application 
    > is made live I would have set up an ESO element and done
    > whatever else I have to do to set the serach order when the user runs
    > the application.
    
    OK. Two questions here. The first depends on whether or not the FDL was
    in the search order and could be found. Where was the element located?
    Was this directory in your current search order? For example, if the
    element was still in the development area (i.e. hadn't yet been made
    live), then you must have OA$SITE_DEV_GUIT_MAIN in your search order to
    be able to locate it. I prefer to get the FDL right and move it into
    the live location and then use an explict reference in named data to
    access it there.  i.e.
    
    ;;FILE;;
    
    OAUSER:GUITARIST.DAT, GUIT$LIB_SHARE:GUITARIST.FDL
    
    The second question revolves around application initialization. If you
    create a new application area then you need to ensure that users can
    access all the code contained therein when the application starts up.
    Take a look at CM_INIT_ENVIRONMENT.SCP to see how CM manipulates
    element search orders. You could also directly change the contents of
    OA$FORM_SEARCH_ORDER and OA$FILE_SEARCH_ORDER by parsing them out and 
    inserting your form libraries/directories in the right place. You might
    look at CM_FILE_ORDER.SCP and CM_FORM_ORDER.SCP to see how we play
    around with search orders.
    
    > Am I on the wrong track here? Does the CFI option use the element
    > search order to look for an FDL?
    
    Yes. The CFI option (just like the rest of ALL-IN-1) looks in your
    search list to locate an element that is not referenced through a
    logical name or directory specification.
    
    > 4) As a programmer I "MLA"ed some elements. I then thought I'd try the
    > Notify Maintainer option (NM). It said something like "No current
    > message". I was under the impression that a message would be generated
    > automatically?
    
    I have just tried this and it works. Did the element (in the CM CWB)
    have a "Move Pending" status.
    
    >5)	Can anyone give a consise explanation as to why, when I create an
    >application area (SM CSZ MA CA) I get an unbelievably complex directory
    >structure created? It seems to create a sub-dir for every element type
    >(about 20 I think at last count) under this "received" area which I'm
    >not sure of the use off, even after reading the documentation.	
    
    You get the structure to allow CM to work properly, including the
    receive and transfer options which require directories for each element
    type that might be transferred in an application. 
    
    > 6) I used the DAL (define application logicals) option and it seemed
    > to go through all the authorised areas "Checking...". Only for some of
    > these did it define a system logical name. Why?
    
    Because we only define the minimum set of logical names to get the
    application working under CM+. That means the development and receive
    areas. It's up to you to define the other locations, normally during
    startup. We do define a set of default authorized locations for you,
    but you may want to change these (change disk locations etc.) before
    you actually make the application live. That's why they aren't defined
    initially.
    
    > 7) Where is the Startup field in CM$APP used? Is there some magic
    >   worked by A1v30start to startup all the applications in CM$APP?
    
    Yes, the magic is performed by CM_DEFINE_APPLICATION_LOG.SCP, which, if
    set in your CM$APP record for the application, will read down through
    the list of authorized locations for the application and define system
    logical names for them all. This is how you can define the full set of
    logicals (re above) if you want. A point to note is that logical search
    lists are not defined here, so if you want to use search lists (for
    example, like OA$LIB) in your application, you have to define them in
    your own version of CM_DEFINE_APPLICATION_LOG.SCP. One way to do this
    is to create a script that:
    
    - Calls CM_DEFINE_APPLICATION_LOG.SCP to create the default set of
      logical names
    - Then makes any other changes felt necessary, such as the definition 
      of search lists or logicals not registered in the authorized
      locations data set.
    
    > Thanks in advance for any help.
    
    You are welcome.
    
    Tony
    
    Andy
    
399.4Are you sure Tony?SHALOT::GEERDESFri Apr 03 1992 18:564
Since when does the CREATE function pick up the FDL in the .FILE from
the file search order, is that new in V3?

	Ben
399.5And...CESARE::EIJSAll in 1 PieceSat Apr 04 1992 13:3894
Hi Andy,

To elaborate to what Tony replied...

    >>2) If PRVAPP is "A" does that make a user an application maintainer
    >>for ALL areas? I guess not - they also need to be authorised using the
    >>MAP option foe each application area - but can someone confirm this?
    >
    >No, the phantom data set *CMREADAREAS defines the areas you have access
    >to. If you can't access an area you can't act as a maintainer. But once
    >you are added to the list of authorized programmers (MAP option) you
    >can be allocated maintainer status. Note that the OA$MANAPP identifier,
    >which is what you get when PRVAPP is set in the profile, only allows
    >you access to some files. CM+ imposes its own checking against the
    >maintainer flag in CM$AUTH$USERS to stop you taking maintainer options
    >for an area if you don't have the privilege.
    
The phantom *CMREADAREAS is used by a Programmer to pre-define the application
areas to which he/she has at least Read access to. The phantom *CMMANAGEAREAS
defines the areas you Maintain. Tony refers to this phantom when he says: 'CM+ 
imposes its own checking against the maintainer flag in CM$AUTH$USERS...'

In short: the ALL-IN-1 Manager should define an account as an Maintainer in 
general. Then, the account becomes a Maintainer of an application area via the 
MAP option.

    >> 3) I created an ENTRY form with a segmented key. The named data looked
    >> a bit like this...
    >> .
    >> .
    >> Am I on the wrong track here? Does the CFI option use the element
    >> search order to look for an FDL?
    >
    >Yes. The CFI option (just like the rest of ALL-IN-1) looks in your
    >search list to locate an element that is not referenced through a
    >logical name or directory specification.

Like Ben I have to disagree here. An FDL specification in the .FILE directive
without a directory specification doesn't get picked up during either '<CREATE
<form> ' or option CFI on the CM menu (which basically does the same), unless
the FDL is in the OAUSER directory or the FDL is in the directory which has
been set via '<SET_DEFAULT xxx'. The CREATE function doesn't take the
OA$FILE_SEARCH_ORDER into account. 
    
    >> 4) As a programmer I "MLA"ed some elements. I then thought I'd try the
    >> Notify Maintainer option (NM). It said something like "No current
    >> message". I was under the impression that a message would be generated
    >> automatically?
    >
    >I have just tried this and it works. Did the element (in the CM CWB)
    >have a "Move Pending" status.
    
I'm looking into this. It has to do with the current drawer.

    >>5) Can anyone give a consise explanation as to why, when I create an
    >>application area (SM CSZ MA CA) I get an unbelievably complex directory
    >>structure created? It seems to create a sub-dir for every element type
    >>(about 20 I think at last count) under this "received" area which I'm
    >>not sure of the use off, even after reading the documentation.	
    >
    >You get the structure to allow CM to work properly, including the
    >receive and transfer options which require directories for each element
    >type that might be transferred in an application. 

I don't thing it is 'unbelievably complex' as all what is done is the creation 
of a directory per element type. In short, when e.g. you receive elements from 
VMS (option on the Maintainer menu) CM will loop through the Receive area(s) 
and the underlying 'element type' directories (depending on the search 
criteria) and then calculates to which application area the element belongs and 
of which element type the element is. That's only one of the possibilities.
    
    >> 6) I used the DAL (define application logicals) option and it seemed
    >> to go through all the authorised areas "Checking...". Only for some of
    >> these did it define a system logical name. Why?
    >
    >Because we only define the minimum set of logical names to get the
    >application working under CM+. That means the development and receive
    >areas. It's up to you to define the other locations, normally during
    >startup. We do define a set of default authorized locations for you,
    >but you may want to change these (change disk locations etc.) before
    >you actually make the application live. That's why they aren't defined
    >initially.
    
Live (and Base) locations are specified per element type (and per application 
area). A lot of element types will have the same live location (take 
OA$SITE_LIB_SHARE:, it's almost looks like a garbage can (with respect)). As 
DAL loops through CM$AUTH$LOCATIONS it might find a live location a number of 
times, while it only has to be defined once. That's why you see more messages 
checking if the logical exists than messages defining the logical.

Ciao,

	Simon