Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

    
    The fact that the Window Manager is started as the first Autostart
    application (after DECW$LOGIN.COM has run) means that any applications
    started in DECW$LOGIN go splat across the screen and then get
    iconised/boxed up/whatever.
    
    This is ugly. In my opinion, the Window Manager should be special cased
    and started BEFORE DECW$LOGIN runs.
    
    When QAR'd, the response was that I should start the Window Manager
    within my DECW$LOGIN - a solution I plain don't like, thanks.
    
    /andy/

    There is no excuse for the continuing hackery around customising
    resources. A Resource Editor should be available with full help text
    that actually works and is supported by DEC.
    
    The current lack of any naive user mode resource changing is a
    disgrace.
    
    (And it's no excuse to say "We're no worse than anyone else" - we're
    *not* anyone else and our aim should be to show a DIGITAL difference.)
    
    /andy/

    As evidenced in this conference, there is no clear message around how
    many planes/colours can be used on any given users machine. We should
    be capable of giving *explanatory* messages, not just
    %MIT-F-meaningless_mumble.

    AUTOSTART having become the province of FILEVIEW, I now find that I
    have to bump up some account quotas signifiantly to prevent their
    depletion and the death of some application at j.random timeinterval.
    
    AUTOSTART should start *detached* processes, _not_ subprocesses.
    
    
    /andy/

    The CLOSE option on the Window Menu provided by the Motif manager kills
    the client. In the case of DECTERM this means that if you CLOSE one,
    you close them all. IE they all go *POOF*. This is ridiculous and
    should be fixed.
    
    
    /andy/

.5

Actually, this is a problem with the application not the window manager.  The
mechanism used to implement close is specificed in the ICCCM and allows the
application to implement its own close.  If used, this would allow the
application to only close the specific window.  Unfortunately, some or all
of the DECwindows application fall short on this feature.

Dick

    
    DECWINDOWS is a meaningless name anyhow, describing as it does a whole
    bundle of stuff under it.
    
    Regardless of the actual part of DECWINDOWS V3 that is causing the
    problem, it must get fixed, rather than let slip through the cracks of
    "it ain't me".
    
    andy (from keiths accound)

Don't start file vue, as was done in the past, with MCR vue$master!!!!
You will end up restarting the SM window and all auto started windows. As in my
case that hung everything!

Paul H.

Performance stinks.  It's bad pretty much across the board for anything
involving the Motif Toolkit:  menu drop-down, focus taking, expose event
handling, and most especially widget creation, widget realization, and above
all the text widget.  I haven't seen performance this bad since the days of
DECwindows V1 FT1 (before the shared memory transport came in).

--PSW

There are some really bizarre key bindings in Motif.  The worst of all is
shift-space not being equivalent to space.  Gimme a break!  NOBODY who is a
touch typist could possibly live with shift-space being anything other than
space.  I can't for the life of me understand how OSF could ever get this one
wrong, or that our reviewers of their work let them get it wrong.

--PSW

In Note 3603.3 (The Good Points of DECwindows V3) PSW::WINALSKI writes:

  >I like the way that pull-down menus stick around if you lift up on the mouse
  >key.
  
    Well, I *hate* the way that pull-down menus stick around when you lift up
    on the mouse button.

  Alfred

    It should be easily customizable, right? 
    
    
    /andy/

    Somehow F10 suddenly stopped being EXIT and started being an
    accelerator for the window menu. Doesn't seem too customizable either.
    
    
    /andy/

   Another vote of dissatisfaction for the way FileVue seems to have "infected"
   the session manager. I never used it before, and I don't want to see it now.
   If it's going to be used, give us a way (or if there is a way, let us know
   about it) to disable the appearance of the work-in-progress and other vue
   windows that pop up during a session startup.

-mike

    PLEASE!!!!! How do we disable the interception of F10 in a DECterm? I don't
    want keyboard traversal. I want F10 to be "exit"!
 
-mike

    Re .15 and also things like Shift-space: it's the responsibility of
    DECterm, with help from other DECwindows parts as needed, to conform to
    DEC Std 70.  It had better not be necessary to use a "work correctly"
    customize function before things work correctly.
    
    	paul

RE: .16

DECterm handles shift-space just fine under Motif.  It's the text widget that
has the problem with shift-space.

--PSW

I found a work-around for the shift-space problem.  Putting the following in
your DECW$XDEFAULTS.DAT will cause all text widgets to treat shift-space as
space:

*XmText.translations: #augment: \n\
	Shift<Key>0x0020:	insert-string(" ")\n

--PSW

Re: .18

I tried that and had the session manager die.  I was told in the answer
to my QAR that the colon after "#augment" should not be there.  I haven't
tried that yet.

			Steve

I use a cheapo black & white VS2000.  I find the new Motif 3-d look for windows
and buttons and sliders just doesn't work as well as the old style.  The sliders
and buttons look fuzzy, and windows that don't have input focus lose their 3-d
effect, and become very anaemic (it's especially difficult to spot the edges of 
overlapping 'greyed-out' windows).

The overall result is increased eye-strain! 

To make a comparison, get a cheapo sceen, start up Notes and Mail.  Notice how 
Notes' buttons and sliders are sharply defined and Mail's are fuzzy and 
ill-defined.

I haven't yet discovered any improvement by diddling the top and bottom shadow
colours - any suggestions gratefully recieved!

I've seen the effect on a colour monitor and it does look good - the 
'greyed-out' windows don't lose their 3-d effect and the overall effect doesn't
hurt my eyes.   But can't the developers do something for cheapskates like me?

Tom.

When you move the scrollbar in the DECterm window the window should move while
the slider is dragged.

Olav

The V2 session manager was intuitive and simple (and good enough). The V3
session manager is a mess. It's confusing with all the FileView stuff two
places (Session Manager + FileView).

Olav

RE: .19

You're right--the colon (:) after #augment in note .18 shouldn't have been
there.  I'm not yet used to quick-copy being on MB2 and I blew the paste
operation.

--PSW

re: .10

>There are some really bizarre key bindings in Motif.  The worst of all is
>shift-space not being equivalent to space.  Gimme a break!  NOBODY who is a
>touch typist could possibly live with shift-space being anything other than
>space.  I can't for the life of me understand how OSF could ever get this one
>wrong, or that our reviewers of their work let them get it wrong.

This is being fixed -- we became aware of the problem around the same
time that the OSF realized it.  Shift-space will insert a space.

I don't know how I could have overlooked this one either, Paul.  But I did
somehow not catch it when I should have (i.e., *months* ago).  Among pages
and pages of virtual keys and their bindings, it somehow got by me.

tms