Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

1. Alt is the key labelled "Compose Character".  In order to use the compose
   function, you need to type alt-space.  There is no Alt key because the
   LK201 predates the requirement for an Alt key.

2. That depends on how many and which types of things you are trying to do
   simulataneously.  Comment on this can't be made without a detailed
   description of your system tuning and what applications you are trying to
   run.

3. Any new application that comes up (or new windows for an existing 
   application) will be on top of existing windows unless you have specified
   for the application to start iconified.  It does not "own" the display.
   You can immediately return to your DECterm.  Even if it covers your DECterm,
   it should not take input focus from your DECterm (this means that typed
   keys should continue to go to the DECterm).  If it DECwrite does take focus,
   it should be reported as a bug on DECwrite.

4. The display size of the characters is user customizable.  The smallest size
   is indeed smaller than is usually recommeded by ergonomic "standards".
   However, if someone tries to take it away from me I'll scream bloody murder.
   I don't care if other people can use my workstation when I am logged (and
   my customizations apply).  That's what customization is all about.  In any
   case, if you prefer a larger size then you should customize your defaults
   to a larger size.

5. You can always set a version limit on the .LOG files and .DAT files.  This
   will prevent you from having multiple version floating around.  Because of
   some technical issues there isn't much chance of them going away completely
   in the short run.  If things start going wrong with your system, you will
   appreciate having the .LOG files since these can be used by the gurus to
   help you fix your problems.  I agree it would be nice to have the files
   in a sub-directory but for now I wouldn't hold my breath.

Dick
a well informed but not authoritative source

    The answer to the basenoter's question #4 strikes me as misleading. I
    would (in any case) be interested in seeing the supported mechanism for
    changing the character size in (say) DECW$MAIL.

    If you suggest editing DECW$MAIL.DAT (which is how I made DECW$MAIL
    readable), you're wrong, because that's not supported or documented for
    DECwindows under VMS.

    Where is the supported mechanism?

    The other problem with this approach is that it's idiotic to make the
    DEFAULT value for something like font size something which is so far
    from what would be generally considered as good practice to require
    most users to find an unsupported way to change it. Even if the
    mechanism WERE supported, the default value should be reasonable, and
    those who have 400/20 vision should have the option to change their
    displays to the one-pixel-per-character mode which seems so popular
    among the default setting crowd.

.2

.0 mentioned that the small fonts in DECterm were too small.  My comment
addressed only that point.  It seemed to me that .0 implied that customizations
to states which are not ergonomic should be disallowed.  I replied to that
implication.

I agree that the font customization mechanism on menus, etc. throughout
DECwindows is poor.  This should be fixed but is not the problem mentioned in
.0.

In addition, the "default" is well within the accepted practice (assuming that
you have not lied to your system startup on a 100dpi machine).  It is only
the non-default behavior that isn't.

Dick

    .0
    	Other people have covered most of your questions. One important
    thing you bring out is the end-user impression of a COMPLETE system
    behavior. VAXstation 3100 & other VAX based workstations are for
    technical users. Applications you mentioned (DECwrite,DECpresent, 
    DECWindows Mail etc.) are indeed good for technical AND non-tech.
    people (or at least going in that direction). However the base operating 
    system or rest of the OS interface (culture) has not changed.
    	Because of this you are seeing a mix of MAC like & low-level
    interface. What you saw on your screen was most probably a message from
    the console telling you that Network node is up or Audit notification
    etc. I guess eventually everything will use some sort of unified UI
    till then it's a mix bag.
    
    Robert
    

You mention that you have a 3100, but you don't mention whether you have SPX.
If you do, I suspect that the setup isn't correct; you're problably set for
75 DPI when it should be set to 100 DPI.  However, changing that will then
show up a lot of other warts.  If you don't have SPX, the you may be dealing
with the old color monitor which has horrid sharpness (so bad that I prefer
to use the B/W monitor of my two head system).

DECwindows is, at this point in time, basically a V1.1 product (although it is
popularly called V2).  It is currently going thru a major change with the
Motif work in progress.  That probably won't address the issues that you
raise, but to compare the situation to the Mac, I'd say that right now we at
the early Mac days with limited applications and a number of things missing.
The transition being made is along the lines of adding multifinder which
didn't make the system much easier to use, but it made the system much more
powerful.

The things that are going on to make DECwindows a real desktop competitor to
the Mac are not so much in the base DECwindows, but rather in things like
DECW$desktop and the expanding set of applications.  However, the real point
of comparision will not be the Mac running multifinder, but the Mac running
A/UX.

And, in all fairness, you should, today, be comparing DECwindows to the
alternatives of either DCL or csh.  I certainly feel that DECwindows improves
the usability of either of these interfaces.  I'm basing this judgement on
my experience dealing with Unix as a very experienced VMS user; I find unix
to be unbearable except with the use of the unix equivalent to VMS FileView.
Based on your comment about DECwrite taking over your terminal, I'm guessing
that you aren't using FileView; I think that changes the nature of thing
significantly (although there is certainly much room for improvement).

.5�And, in all fairness, you should, today, be comparing DECwindows to the
.5�alternatives of either DCL or csh.  
    
    You make a lot of valid points, and I don't really want to nitpick, but
    the author of .0 is doing what our customers do: he's comparing
    different products in the marketplace. If a customer says, "DECWmail
    isn't as good as MacMail [sic]" and we respond with "Ah, but it's better
    than DCL" we will still lose the sale.
    
    Frankly, Digital should be embarassed that Macintosh and Amstrad et al
    are running rings around us in terms of USEABILITY (probably very high
    on the list of "things important to the customer").
    
    I'm glad we're fixing it: I hope we do so in an INTEGRATED way so that
    all applications look and feel the same (which is what they DON'T do
    now by a long shot).
    
    Keith

RE: .0 - error and log files.

Some recent observations has been made that the VAXCRTL will always open 
SYS$OUTPUT, and SYS$ERROR regardless of when the first write is done to the
files. Thus, even a programs as simple as:

main()
{
 FILE* fd;

 fd = fopen("sys$login:login.com","r");
}

Will cause sys$error to be opened. 

This problem has been QARed to the VAXCRTL group, and the answere was generally
less than satisfactory, their indication being that this mis-behaviour was not
a problem since "... SYS$ERROR is usually assigned to the terminal ...". 

If your customer is seriously concerned about the problem, perhaps an SPR or 
CLD should result.

James