Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

I don't know about your session manager, but mine won't let me change the
definition of a "system menu item".  Which means: it won't let me change the 
definition of the Cardfiler verb.  Do you have a different verb for 
Cardfiler in your Applications Definitions, and does this match the verb
that you use for AutoStart?

tom

re: -.1, I have not changed anything whatsoever.  Same CARDFILER verb in 
autostart, same CARDFILER verb in the applications menu.

Let's put the question this way ... is ANYONE out there firing off CARDFILER 
with AUTOSTART and getting a titled card with data immediately available ??

/Kent

    re: .2
    
    The session manager WILL NOT allow you to change system definitions. 
    If you say that your CARDFILER definition is the same as your FILEVUE
    definition, then you're wrong.  Look again.
    
    I've been auto-starting the cardfiler for ages, and it works just fine.
    
    Define a new definition in the session manager (say $Cardfiler) to be
    the following:
    
    	MCR SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CARDFILER SYS$LOGIN:KENT.CARD
    
    	(I think that was the name of your CARD file; obviously, the third
    	item is the name of the CARD file)
    
    Then add it to your AUTOSTART list, and you're set.  If you also want
    to be able to restart it, then add it to your applications menu.
    
    And finally, do check past postings before posting a new note.  If you
    had bothered, you would have found this previously documented in this
    conference.  Like in note 92.  And note 883.  And now in note 2978.
    How useful ...
    
    	-- Jeff

>   re: .2
    
>    The session manager WILL NOT allow you to change system definitions. 
>    If you say that your CARDFILER definition is the same as your FILEVUE
>    definition, then you're wrong.  Look again.
    
I stand corrected.

>    I've been auto-starting the cardfiler for ages, and it works just fine.
    
>    Define a new definition in the session manager (say $Cardfiler) to be
>   the following:
    
>    	MCR SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CARDFILER SYS$LOGIN:KENT.CARD
    
This works fine, thank you very much !

>    	(I think that was the name of your CARD file; obviously, the third
>    	item is the name of the CARD file)
    
>    Then add it to your AUTOSTART list, and you're set.  If you also want
>    to be able to restart it, then add it to your applications menu.
    
>    And finally, do check past postings before posting a new note.  If you
>    had bothered, you would have found this previously documented in this
>    conference.  Like in note 92.  And note 883.  And now in note 2978.
>    How useful ...
    
I used keyword search, and undoubtedly did come upon note 92, at least.  In fact,
I searched over 30 minutes through this conference.  Since astronaut pictures
was not what I had in mind, I failed to scour the 34 replies to note 92.  I was 
also looking for subject matter corresponding to AUTOSTART .. basically all 
the keywords I included with my note. 

What I hear you saying, though, is to keep CARDFILER inquiries confined to 
exisiting notes on the subject, not create new entries needlessly. I apologize 
for adding to the clutter, and will change my style in the future.  -Kent

>    	-- Jeff

I defined the following menu command in my session manager Customize 
Applications Definitions menu as menu item CARDFILE:

	MCR SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CARDFILER SYS$LOGIN:PHONE.CARD

After adding CARDFILE to my applications menu, I try and run it and get
the following message:

	Cardfiler Message: * Can not open file.

	Please check the file name and directory
	for spelling or other errors and try again.

Yet, I can issue the above command from DCL and it works correctly.
Ideas?

-Andy

Re: .5

It is very likely that SYS$LOGIN is not defined in the process being run
by the session manager. To verify this, expand SYS$LOGIN to a device
and directory and try it again...Ken

I expanded:

	MCR SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CARDFILER SYS$LOGIN:PHONE.CARD

to:

	MCR SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CARDFILER PEACHS$DUB1:[MITCHAM]PHONE.CARD

and yet, I get the same error.  Any other ideas?

-Andy

Andy,

	I have the following in my DECW$LOGIN.COM:

$  Cardfiler:
$       Spawn/NoWait/Input=Nl:/Process="Cardfiler-Phone" -
    Mcr Decw$Cardfiler Sys$Login:Phone.Card


	I start Banner & Cardfiler from DECW$LOGIN, the rest (Calendar &
6 assorted DECterms) from Autostart.

					--D

    Granted I could start it as a spawn'd or detach'd process but it
    *ought* to work from AUTOSTART, correct?
    
    -Andy

    Yes, it ought to work from AUTOSTART.  Not only that, but it does (for
    me, at least, as well as everyone in my group).
    
    Thus, if it isn't working for you, something must be different ... so
    what could that be?
    
    What version of VAX/VMS?  Standalone workstation or multi-user system?
    (If standalone, are you sure you generated VMS okay?)  Anything funny
    in your SYSUAF record for your account?  What's the default CLI (I
    imagine that if you had something different than DCL, strange things
    might happen)?
    
    You might want to try writing a COM file that will write out, to a
    file, the definition of SYS$LOGIN.  Then autostart that, and that
    should tell you if SYS$LOGIN is being defined.
    
    SYS$LOGIN/SYS$LOGIN_DEVICE/SYS$SCRATCH are normally defined as job
    table logical names by LOGINOUT.  Any idea why that isn't happening?
    
    	-- Jeff

>    What version of VAX/VMS?  Standalone workstation or multi-user system?
>    (If standalone, are you sure you generated VMS okay?)  Anything funny
>    in your SYSUAF record for your account?  What's the default CLI (I
>    imagine that if you had something different than DCL, strange things
>    might happen)?

	- Running VMS v5.3-1
	- VS2000 cluster'd to a VAX 6310
	- Nothing funny about my SYSUAF (that I'm aware of, anyway)
	- Default CLI is DCL
    
>    You might want to try writing a COM file that will write out, to a
>    file, the definition of SYS$LOGIN.  Then autostart that, and that
>    should tell you if SYS$LOGIN is being defined.
>    
>    SYS$LOGIN/SYS$LOGIN_DEVICE/SYS$SCRATCH are normally defined as job
>    table logical names by LOGINOUT.  Any idea why that isn't happening?

Ok, ran the following as a Session Manager application.  The results are
posted below it:

$! FOO.COM
$ show logical sys$login/output=login.
$ show logical sys$login_device/output=device.
$ show logical sys$scratch/output=sniff.

-Andy_PEACHS> type login.
%TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for PEACHS$DUB1:[MITCHAM]LOGIN.;
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found

-Andy_PEACHS> type device.
   "SYS$LOGIN_DEVICE" = "$DISK1:" (LNM$JOB_8046B6B0)
1  "$DISK1" = "PEACHS$DUB1:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)

-Andy_PEACHS> type sniff.
   "SYS$SCRATCH" = "$DISK1:[MITCHAM]" (LNM$JOB_8046B6B0)

First, I'd like to make a correction to my previous note.  Instead of:

-Andy_PEACHS> type login.
%TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for PEACHS$DUB1:[MITCHAM]LOGIN.;
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found

 it should read:

-Andy_PEACHS> type login.
   "SYS$LOGIN" = "$DISK1:[MITCHAM]" (LNM$JOB_8046B6B0)

At any rate, I (and the cluster manager) have worked at length to try and 
determine why this isn't working.  We've found it has something to do with
the file spec. but I haven't determined what is preventing it from working 
properly.  It is *very* inconsistant.  It was working for a time but (dummy 
me) didn't preserve the magical bits in the session manager and ended up 
screwing things up again while trying to troubleshoot the damn thing (should
have left well enough alone, I guess).

I have 3 .CARD files in my directory.  Because my PHONE.CARD file wouldn't 
work, we decided to change the command to use DECWINDOWS.CARD.  This worked!  
Why, I don't know.  So I changed cards back to PHONE.CARD and it, too, worked!
I decided to restore my last saved settings and try this sequence again but
now it isn't working!!! <sigh>

Oh well, it's a good thing I'm going on vacation soon...

-Andy

Does this problem only happen with you, or does it happen with other people too?

I'd start look at your account pretty closely.  Look at your AUTHORIZE settings
VERY carefully.  Rename your LOGIN.COM so the process that the SM creates will
not execute it.  Rename DECW$LOGIN.COM, if it exists, for the same reason.  If
it is happening to others too, then look at system files.  Like SYLOGIN.COM and
stuff like that.

As I said before, this stuff does work.  You are running identical versions of
software that I am.  The difference is that I've been using this via AUTOSTART
ever since DECwindows V2 was available, and I've never experienced a problem.
Also, many other people in my group do this too, and it all works fine.  So, the
age old question: What is making your environment different?

	-- Jeff