Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

    Sorry, only with difficulty.
    
    The VWS engineering group developed a UIS generic encoding to DDIF
    converter and this shareable image ships with VWS V4.2 and allows
    the CONVERT/document foo.uis/format=UIS foo/format=DDIF to work.
    
    However...  welcome to the world of CDA.  The file is valid, if
    semi-sophisticated DDIF encoding.  But since each application that
    uses CDA/DDIF must implement ALL of the code to read and understand
    the DDIF we have classic interoperability problems.  While you can
    run this though the postscript converter without problems, you can't
    touch it with PAINT - which can only handle IMAGES.  You can't hand
    it to at least one or two because SIGHT creates a nested segment type
    structure.  Some, can't handle anything but BMU measurement, and UIS
    (like DECwrite) deals in gutenbergs.  Fonts, as always, present a
    challenge as they are mapped as best as can be expected from UIS to
    X fonts... And no text scaling/rotation PLEASE!
    
    In addition, I don't know of a color, object-oriented graphics editor
    available from DEC that can edit DDIF files.
    
    It's a mess.  What needs to be done is known, but the VWS group just
    lost all of their DDIF-experienced engineers and are up to their
    armpits in other Priority-1 problems.
    
    In the meantime... there is always UISX - and you can run SIGHT on
    top of DECwindows (yeah, I got your drift - you don't want to).
    
    _Fred (no longer affiliated with VWS, so I'm not doing it :-)
    

>    I've got to edit some diagrams that were created using SIGHT.  What
>    software should I use?  I don't want to use SIGHT (ever again...).
>    Some possibilities I know of are :
>    
>    - DECwrite (does the latest FT version have a more complete CDA/DDIF
>    		implementation?)
>    
>    - (proto)RAGS (well, can this operate on DDIF things?)

(proto)RAGS cannot operate on object oriented DDIF or DDIF compound
documents.  It's DDIF capabilities are limited to reading in or writing out
DDIF images (bitmaps).

-Mike

    
    	idraw, from the InterViews distribution (research that we
    	supported) is an color object-oriented graphics editor.   We could
    	buy a VMS version from a company that handles the sale of NASA
    	software (where the VMS port of InterViews was carried out).
    
    	It doesn't operate on DDIF, rather it stores images in very
    	carefully coded PostScript (the header says %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF 1.2
    
    	how much work would it be to make a DDIF <--> InterViews-readable
    	PS converter? (or UIS --> special PS converter?
    	(I guess I'll ask this in the CDA conference, too)
    
    		-pk.
    
    	P.S. I'm going in search of a MAC that has Meta Software's _Design_
    	package on it.  It knows about _connections_.  I might as well use
    	a MAC since I may as well to start over anyway...

    
    	
    I've converted the sight-generated file to DDIF.  The file prints
    out ok (ddif-> .ps) 
    
    When I edit the DDIF file in DECWrite V1.0, (or view it in VIEW on
    version VMS V5.3 I don't see any of the
    "graphical objects" (circles, lines, etc).  They are there, though.
    I can see their control points when I select a region (using SH-MB1
    DRAG).
    
    	What is going on?  
    	Will the next version of DECwrite show the stuff? 
    
    	What is the (single!) right forum for this discussion?
    
    
    			Paul Komar.
    		

    What's going on?
    
     Both SIGHT and DECwrite expect their graphics in specific formats and
     they also both encode "private" data to describe the content.  There
     is a mismatch here.  SIGHT encodes everything within segments, each
     segment being an object.  A SIGHT object could be a single primitive
     and a private encoding tag - or a large group of primitives and an
     endcoding tag.  This gets translated into nested DDIF frames which
     a lot of DDIF applications choke on.  We (as I was part of the
     decision) guessed wrong when we elected to preserve the structure of
     the generic encoding rather than "flattening" it.
    
    Where to talk about it?
    
     There are a couple notesfiles on VWSENG:: on migration.  All of these
     problems are known, however, and your not likely to get a lot more
     information.  You should QAR it in SWSQAR (QAR/QAR_INTERNAL) to make
     sure that it stays a hot topic.
    
    Workarounds?
    
     One thing to do is to go into SIGHT, select the entire display and
     set the line width of all objects to the thinnest pen.  This fixes a
     lot of line problems in DECwrite.  SIGHT wide-lines are actually
     composed of polygons pasted together by SIGHT - because UIS wide lines
     are horrible.  
    
     Another is to try and convert the SIGHT image into a ISL/DDIF image
     using one of the internal tools like UTOX.
    
    What should be done?
    
     Well, that has been discussed and I think it's pretty well known what
     needs to be done... but the VWS and VWS Migration groups do not have
     the resources at present to implement the solution(s).
    
    

    
>    In the meantime... there is always UISX - and you can run SIGHT on
>    top of DECwindows (yeah, I got your drift - you don't want to).
    
I'm supporting a cluster which I'm trying to migrate from VWS to DECwindows.
Could you elaborate on how SIGHT can be run on top of DECwindows?    
This ability would greatly lessen the resistance since the general-access
VWS workstation may be going away soon, and this is causing much grief.

Thanks,
Kevin

    You can run Sight on DECwindows system through a new package call UISX
    (UIS on top of DECwindows).  For specifics on it see VWSENG::UISX
    notesfile.
    
    Irene

    
    1)	Install SIGHT from V4.3 onto your cluster.
    2)	Install UISX from V4.3 onto your cluster.
    3)	Install HCUIS from V4.3 onto your cluster.
    4)	Install all of the fonts (both UISX and VWS formats) onto your
    	cluster.
    5)	Edit the system startup commands to invoke the various startup
    	files (or better still, use SYSMAN).
    
    Now, SIGHT can be invoked ON THE CLUSTER by a DECwindows workstation
    user by simply having him define SYS$WORKSTATION as his workstation
    and server (i.e. MYNODE::0.0) and typing SIGHT<cr>.
    
    Files can be RENDERed on any of the cluster systems.
    
    Neat eh?
    
    Get the VWS V4.3 release notes and documentation for more info... or
    check out the UISX notesfile on VWSENG::
    
    _Fred