| Title: | DECWINDOWS 26-JAN-89 to 29-NOV-90 |
| Notice: | See 1639.0 for VMS V5.3 kit; 2043.0 for 5.4 IFT kit |
| Moderator: | STAR::VATNE |
| Created: | Mon Oct 30 1989 |
| Last Modified: | Mon Dec 31 1990 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 3726 |
| Total number of notes: | 19516 |
From the digression in 1999:
I agree with Burns' note below. Folks just plain don't use the
on-line help - if they're going to see it, we're going to have
to give them no choice but to see it (of course, we should be
nice and give them to option to dismiss it:-). DECwindows should
automatically run a CBI the first time a user logs in. Each
application should run a CBI the first time it's run. Ideally
the CBI should have the user actually use the controls, not just
explain them.
Comments?
Mike
<<< BULOVA::DOCD$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DECWINDOWS.NOTE;6 >>>
-< DECWINDOWS rebuilt: do a SET SEEN/BEFORE=30-OCT-1989 >-
================================================================================
Note 1999.3 Positioning the Icon Box 3 of 5
DECWIN::FISHER "Burns Fisher 381-1466, ZKO3-4/W23" 26 lines 5-JAN-1990 17:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe a tribute to how hard it is to find a subject in a conference? (Actually,
I don't find it that way, but maybe it is.)
One thing about the window manager and the clock...every other application
has Customize as a menu. You never find it in an MB2 popup. In fact, I suspect
that 90% of DW users never use MB2 popups at all.
I think that it would be nice if there were a quick and easy way that people could
find out the "guiding principles" of XUI style (and motif to come). A little
example CBI thing that was very obvious when you first logged in would help.
It would teach things like:
MB1 click selects. Menus often operate on selected things
MB1 drag moves things
MB1 double click selects and does a default action
MB2 does a popup menu
MB3 pastes (and maybe some other application-dependent function)
A menu with ... means that selecting it will bring up a dialog box
A menu with [-> means a pull-right
A menu with nothing at the end means it will happen right away
The leftmost menu entry is where you find control and file info.
etc etc
Burns
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2009.1 | PSW::WINALSKI | Careful with that VAX, Eugene | Mon Jan 08 1990 15:01 | 6 | |
The Macintosh has an execellent new user CBI program. It leads you through all the fundamentals of how to use the mouse, how windows work, what MB1, MB2, etc. are for, etc. I suggest that anybody doing a similar program for DEcwindows look at the one on the Mac. --PSW | |||||
| 2009.2 | There is a CBI | OLDTMR::TEELUCKSINGH | Mon Jan 08 1990 15:30 | 4 | |
One has been done... see the 'Intro To DECwindows Systems' CBI.
(available from Ed. Services)
-Ken
| |||||
| 2009.3 | DECwindows CBI order info... | DEMON::ELDREDGE | Mon Jan 08 1990 16:39 | 172 | |
Attached is some info re: the CBIs that are currently available as layered
products to customers (and internally) ...and a few other non-CBI DW courses
too. We are currently working on other CBIs for VAXset and Datatrieve.
(If you're thinking of ordering, you may want to wait for the V2 updates,
which will be under the same EY order number...)
Discussion around the possibility of bundling CBIs
with the products, as competitors do, is heating up again...
There is general agreement that customers would like to have CBIs come
with their applications. It's a matter of making it work within
DEC's business structure...
We did look at the MAC CBI on the SE... it was inspiring.
We're waiting on a tool (Xigor) that's in development that will help us
record and playback demo sequences like the MAC does... Even
without Xigor, we achieved a satisfyingly enthusiastic response
to the course... at least I haven't heard any complaints.
We didn't get the info re: the pop-up menu in the Icon box into
the CBI (I just learned it), but there are many other hints
re: the not-so-obvious side of the DECwindows interface.
All the CBIs include hands-on exercises, so the customer can practice
what they're learning.
Ken (in 2009.2) neglected to take the credit for having done all
the code for the Intro to DW Systems CBI... I designed & wrote
the instruction... Ken is also responsible for (simultaneous to
his work on the CBI) designing and building the system we're using
to build other CBIs...
FYI - just so you'll know.. our group is available to do other CBIs
if you think you're product needs one... (Sorry if this sounds too
salesy... but I think some people need this info. The rest of you
can ignore it.)
Those interested in more info should send me mail... I don't get
as much time for NOTES as I'd like.. my colleagues
pointed this out to me.
Kathy
-
EDUCATIONAL SERVICES - DECWINDOWS USER-LEVEL TRAINING
----------------- Introduction to DECwindows Systems ---------------
FORMAT: Computer-Based Instruction LENGTH: 2-3 hrs
PREREQUISITES: None AVAILABLE: NOW
Provides new workstation users a self-paced, hands-on introduction to
working in the DECwindows environment. Instruction covers using the
mouse; managing windows; using pull-down menus, scroll bars, and
dialog box controls; selecting, cutting, and pasting text; accessing
Help; and using the DECwindows Session Manager.
PART NUMBER: TK50 Magtape
VMS Systems EY-8273E-TK EY-8273E-MT
ULTRIX VAX Systems EY-C169E-TK EY-C169E-MT
ULTRIX RISC Systems EY-A898E-TK EY-A898E-MT
--------------------- Introduction to VMS DECwindows: --------------
FileView and Its Desktop Applications
FORMAT: Computer-Based Instruction LENGTH: ~1 day
PREREQUISITES: Introduction to DECwindows AVAILABLE: NOW
Systems
Provides new DECwindows users the introductory skills needed to use
FileView (for file management) and the following DECwindows desktop
applications: Bookreader, Calculator, Calendar, Cardfiler, Clock, DDIF
Viewer, Mail, Notepad, Paint.
PART NUMBER: TK50 Magtape
Customer - VMS Systems EY-A888E-TK EY-A888E-MT
Field Service - VMS Systems EY-9889E-TK EY-9889E-MT
------------------- Using the ULTRIX User Executive and -------------
the DECwindows Desktop Applications
FORMAT: Computer-Based Instruction LENGTH: ~1 day
PREREQUISITES: Introduction to DECwindows AVAILABLE: NOW
Systems
Provides new DECwindows users with the introductory skills needed to
use the ULTRIX User Executive (for file management) and the following
DECwindows desktop applications: Calculator, Calendar, Cardfiler,
Clock, DDIF Viewer, Mail, Notepad, Paint, and PostScript Previewer.
PART NUMBER: TK50 Magtape
ULTRIX VAX Systems EY-C170E-KA EY-C170E-MA
ULTRIX RISC Systems EY-A899E-KA EY-A899E-MA
------------------- Using VMS Utilities from DECwindows -------------
FORMAT: Lecture/Lab LENGTH: 5 days
PREREQUISITES: Intro to DECwindows Systems AVAILABLE: Now
Intro to VMS DECwindows: FileView
and Its Desktop Applications
Provides step-by-step instruction for performing VMS tasks within the
DECwindows environment. Instruction covers the commands and procedures
necessary to edit, manipulate DECwindow files, to customize the user
interface, and to develop and run programs in the new environment. The
course includes instruction on the EVE editor.
COURSE NUMBER: EY-A752E-L0
EDUCATIONAL SERVICES - DECWINDOWS TECHNICAL TRAINING
--------------------- DECwindows Technical Overview ----------------
FORMAT: Seminar LENGTH: 2 days
PREREQUISITES: None AVAILABLE: Now
Provides an overview of graphic software and hardware concepts,
windowing systems, MIT's Project Athena, the X Windows System
architecture, DECwindows architecture and components, CDA, and OSF.
COURSE NUMBER: EY-9236E-S0
------------ Programming X Version 11 in the DECwindows -------------
Environment (VMS or ULTRIX)
FORMAT: Text-Based w/on-line exercises LENGTH: 5 days
PREREQUISITES: Ability to edit, compile and AVAILABLE: Now
run a program using C in VMS or
ULTRIX environment.
Teaches application developers how to develop graphics applications by
integrating X Version 11 function calls into a C Program. The course
covers the routines needed to create and map windows, modify window
attributes, open a display, and output text and graphics. It also
provides an introduction to the DECtoolkit widgets.
PART NUMBER: TK50 Magtape
VMS Systems EY-C165E-TK EY-C165E-MT
ULTRIX Systems EY-8256E-TK EY-8256E-MT
--------------------- Programming with DECwindows -------------------
FORMAT: 60% Lecture/40% Lab LENGTH: 5 days
PREREQUISITES: DECwindows Technical Overview, AVAILABLE: Now
and/or Programming X-Windows on
Workstations (VMS or ULTRIX)
Provides application developers with the fundamental skills needed to
develop DECwindows-based applications. Participants learn how to
develop simple programs using calls to Xlib, the Xtoolkit intrinsics,
and the DECtoolkit widgets and gadgets. Exercises and examples use the
C programming language.
COURSE NUMBER: EY-A925E-L0
---------------------------------------------------------------------
ORDERING INFORMATION: Digital U.S. employees may order self-paced courses
using electronic mail. Send a VMSmail request to CECV03::MAILPO or an
ALL-IN-1 request to MAILPO @BKO. Include your name, badge number, cost
center, full facility address including mail stop, course title,
quantity, and part number. Courses are charged to your cost center
through an internal transfer. Digital employees in European and
GIA sites must order the course through their local training center.
| |||||
| 2009.4 | PSW::WINALSKI | Careful with that VAX, Eugene | Tue Jan 09 1990 23:41 | 5 | |
Sounds really good. The only problem that I see is that the Macintosh CBI comes with the system, whereas ours must be ordered separately. This ought to be bundled directly with DECwindows. --PSW | |||||
| 2009.5 | STAR::MFOLEY | Rebel Without a Clue | Wed Jan 10 1990 08:55 | 15 | |
RE: .4
But the CBI comes from Ed. Services and not Engineering.. They
have to show a profit. (I think)
There's alot we can do to better inform the un-informed user.. I
see it every DECUS. The frustration level is VERY high when they
don't have someone to sit down with them for just 5 minutes..
FWIW, I put the DECwindows and FileView CBI up on the system on
the DECUS cluster. The application was in the Session Manager with
the order number in the title.. Hopefully someone will buy it but I
agree, it should be in the product.
mike
| |||||
| 2009.6 | PSW::WINALSKI | Careful with that VAX, Eugene | Wed Jan 10 1990 15:47 | 8 | |
A CBI of this sort, bundled with the product, is a REQUIREMENT in the market we're trying to sell DECwindows into. Our major competition has it and we don't. If amortizing the Ed Services development effort is what's getting in the way, then the engineering group(s) responsible for DECwindows should push the appropriate amount of development funny money their way. We can't let organizational boundaries keep us second-rate. --PSW | |||||
| 2009.7 | I'm in violent agreement | VMSDEV::BALLOU | It's not slow, it's careful! | Wed Jan 10 1990 16:10 | 21 |
AMEN! (Er, cough, ... excuse me :-) That is, I heartily agree with
Paul.
One of the driving goals behind GUIs is to make computers more
accessible to the general population. We have these hot boxes called
PVAXes (oops, I was tempted to write PMAX there, but ... :-) and this
top-notch GUI. Of course, I understand that the way Digital is
orgnized, Ed. Services has to make a profit. But I think Paul hit the
nail precisely on the head with the remark that the market we're going
after will have precious little patience with being "nickled and dimed
to death." In fact, I would be more radical and say that even if our
major competition didn't have it, we should take a leadership position
and do it anyway.
But then again, I'm the sort of kook who would GIVE AWAY documentation
CDs (and not charge big bucks for a license) on the general theory that
being able to browse through all sorts of documentation might even
induce customers to buy something they might not otherwise have
considered :-)
- Ken
| |||||
| 2009.8 | have CBIs been upgraded for DECW V2? | NOBOZO::MILLING | Mon Mar 19 1990 18:02 | 11 | |
ref: .3
I ordered EY-8273E-TK and just received EY-8273E-KA-001. Surprizingly,
the installation notes refer to VMS V5.1 and all the screens are
DECW V1.
Has this and the other CBIs been upgraded for DECW V2? If so, how
do I get them? I suppose it's too much to ask to just swap a V1
kit for a V2 kit or pick it up over the net...
Bob
| |||||
| 2009.9 | Updated VMS 5.3 CBI Order Numbers | DEMON::ELDREDGE | Tue Mar 27 1990 16:10 | 17 | |
Yes, both CBIs have been updated to VMS 5.3... They may only be
getting on the shelf around now, so that's why you might have received
the DW "Version 1" CBIs instead of the updated ones.
The order numbers for the new CBIs (for VMS TK50 kits) are:
Intro to DECwindows Systems EY-8273E-KA-0002
Intro to VMS DECwindows: FileView
and its Desktop Applications EY-A888E-KA-0002
(NOTE: only the last digit is different)
Sorry for the confusion. I hope the Billerica warehouse
can rectify the situation.
Kathy
| |||||
| 2009.10 | reply to .8 | SYSTMX::MALLOR | Eileen, 249-4734 | Wed Mar 28 1990 14:43 | 14 |
Hi Bob,
All of the DECwindows CBIs have been updated for V2. The last of these
CBIs (including the one you mention) were completed Feb. 21 and sent
to manufacturing and distribution. Since it takes about 6 weeks to
get the new inventory on the shelf and orderable out of Billerica, your
order was processed with the currently shipping inventory - i.e. V1.
I am sending a copy of your note to the appropriate people & copying
you so that you can get your V1 kit swapped for V2.
(While Cathy's right about the order number, the rev number generally is
ignored by distribution, as they ship what's in inventory.)
Eileen
| |||||
| 2009.11 | Arrrggghh! | NECSC::LEVY | McClanahan Skjellyfetti | Thu Jun 28 1990 11:12 | 10 |
I'm in the process of installing the new (V2) CBIs. They fail if you're running a Field Test version of VMS. Have to edit KITINSTAL.COM to bypass the version check. Who do I *officially* notify of my displeasure regarding this behavior. It is really poor to be running T5.4-4GE of VMS and be told by the installation that you must be running VMS V5.1 or *greater*!!!!! - Dave | |||||
| 2009.12 | I''ll cross-post -.1 in DECWINDOWS_CBI | NECSC::LEVY | McClanahan Skjellyfetti | Fri Jun 29 1990 13:07 | 0 |