Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

>>	I'm wondering how one should "prototype" an application definition.
>>	Where do error messages go?  What if I said the command to execute
>>	cause a DCL file to be executed, where would a trace
>>	(provided by Set Verify) go?

For error messages and trace (terminal emulator) support, use FileView.
You can define your own verbs by using the "Verbs and Menus" dialog box.

The Session Manager did not implement these features.

-steve-

    re: .0 and VWSLAT
    
    VWSLAT has run just fine for me in a DECterm window.  Please try 
    just running it in a DECterm window and see what you get for error 
    messages.  It does not require any priv's and can be run from your 
    own account.  Could it be that you have incoming LAT turned on?
    You must turn off incoming LAT before running the outgoing VWSLAT
    program.  If you need the latest VWSLAT try PRNSYS::sys$system:VWSLAT.EXE 
    and PRNSYS::sys$help:VWSLAT.HLB.  The author is PRNSYS::LOMICKAJ.
    
    	/s/	Roger
    

    
    	My questions are about create/terminal.  I can get VWSLAT going
    	(and I'm using even as I type), by using child.
    
    	Why doesn't create/term "run foo" run foo?
    
    	a) bug, in which case I'll QAR it like a shot (of something Slow,
    no doubt)
    
    	b) I'm an idiot and "run foo" means do something else :-)
    
    	c)  ???
    
    		-pk.
    

Sorry if i'm butting into someone else's parade.

I'm running VMS 5.3 and I want to use create/term/detach/input=filesname
 It doesn't work! I get some flash message in the window about something with
sys$input but can't read it. I used a full pathname and that didn't help.
Any ideas?  Thanks steve

>    	My questions are about create/terminal.  I can get VWSLAT going
>    	(and I'm using even as I type), by using child.
>    
>    	Why doesn't create/term "run foo" run foo?

It does.  It starts to run FOO in a subprocess, and then immediatly
exits, and kills the parent process, which takes the subprocess with it.
    
>    	a) bug, in which case I'll QAR it like a shot (of something Slow,
>    no doubt)
>    
>    	b) I'm an idiot and "run foo" means do something else :-)

Given these choices, I'd say "b", for having not read the CREATE/TERM
carefully and understood all the implications of it being a subprocess.

CREATE/TERM works like SPAWN, but the defaul tis /NOWAIT.

The easiest way to run terminal emulator applications from the
applications menu (although not the cheapest in terms of process slots
or startup time) is to say:

	$ CREATE/TERMINAL/WAIT run foo

This will appear to work absolutely graet.

Now, those that know what is going on, you will want to find a way to
make it create only 1 process instead of 2.  To do that, you use the
latest version of CHILD (here I go with CHILD again) and use the form:

	$ CHILD/NOCOMMAND/NEWTERM=(SYS$INPUP,SYS$OUTPUT) "$ run foo"

This doesn't always work.  Sometimes you have to use:

	$ CHILD/NOCOMMAND/NEWTERM=output "@foo.com"

where FOO.COM is:

	$ DEFINE/USER SYS$ERROR output
	$ DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT output
	$ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT output
	$ RUN foo
	$ EXIT

The latter method is how I run VWSLAT, as I also have to do a DEFINE XQA0 XQB0:

				- Jeff

    
    	Thanks, Jeff.  I think I understand now.
    
    	My fundamental misconception was that Create/Terminal was supposed
    to replace Child.
    
    		All better now...
    
    		-pk.
    

Re: .4

>I'm running VMS 5.3 and I want to use create/term/detach/input=filesname
> It doesn't work! I get some flash message in the window about something with
>sys$input but can't read it. I used a full pathname and that didn't help.
>Any ideas?  Thanks steve

I tries this and hit the same problem: the error message is something like:

	Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT
	Error in device name or inappropriate device type for operation

LOGINOUT or SET TERMINAL may be trying to set/get terminal characteristics,
which doesn't work very well on a disk file. Try create/term/input=filename
instead (i.e. create a subprocess instead of a detached process); this
worked for me.

				-- Bob

About CREATE/TERMINAL .vs. CHILD.

CREATE/TERMINAL does all of the *useful* things that CHILD did at the
time that CREATE/TERMINAL was specified.  CHILD has options for
*everything*, some of which can be very confusing - particulary the
problems you can get if you run programs other than LOGINOUT.EXE as
detached processes.

It was only after the appearance of the DECWindows applications menu
where I saw that there was this problem with CHILD and CREATE/TERMINAL,
and since I control CHILD, added the combination of a command line
parameter with /NOCOMMAND, which will LIB$DO_COMMAND the parameter after
creating the terminal.

You initial impression, that CRAETE/TERMINAL should replace CHILD, is
correct. 

Re: .9

I also answered this in the DECterm conference, but for the record: you need
to say create/terminal, not create terminal.

				-- Bob

    	
    
    	I have created a command file that get input from the terminal
    	and opens a remote application.
    
    	The command file works perfect from a normal interactive session
    	but when used from a window created by the session manager or by
    	create/term methods the command file fails on the gosub with:-
    
    	%DCL-W-INVGOSUB, invalid use of the GOSUB command
    
    
    	The command file follows:-
    
    	Thanks 
    
    	Steve Fitton
    
$ SET VER
$ SET noON
$ mode=f$mode()
$ SH SYM MODE
$ if mode .eqs. "OTHER" then goto detached
$ if mode .eqs. "NETWORK" then goto network
$EXIT
$!
$network:
$ apps=""
$ apps_num=0
$ count=0
$ on error then goto finish
$ define netserver$timeout 0
$ username=f$trnlnm("sys$rem_id")
$ node=f$trnlnm("sys$rem_node")
$ node_len=f$length(node)
$ node=f$extract(0,node_len-2,node)
$ set disp/cre/node='node'
$ open/read net sys$net
$loop:
$ read/end=finish net data
$ if data.eqs."NOSTART" then goto hold
$ if data.eqs."END" then goto wait_loop
$ apps=apps+data+" "
$ apps_num=apps_num+1
$ goto loop
$wait_loop:
$ apps=apps+data+" "
$ wait 0:02
$spawn_procs:
$ data=f$element(count," ",apps)
$ if data .eqs. "END" then goto hold
$ request="''node'_''data'"
$ procedure = f$environment ("PROCEDURE")
$ device=f$trnlnm("sys$login")
$ run sys$system:loginout -
        /noauthorize -
        /uic='f$user () -
        /input='procedure  -
        /output='device'decw_net.log -
        /error='device'decw_net.err  -
        /privileges=all -
        /page_file=20000 -
        /maximum_working_set=2048 -
        /extent=4096 -
        /ast_limit=200 -
        /enqueue_limit=1200 -
        /file_limit=100 -
        /buffer_limit=40000 -
        /io_buffered=32767 -
        /io_direct=32767 -
        /process_name="''request'"
$ IF COUNT.ge.APPS_NUM THEN goto hold
$ COUNT=COUNT+1
$ GOTO SPAWN_PROCS
$hold:
$ READ/END=FINISH NET DATA
$ APPS=APPS+DATA+" "
$ APPS_NUM=APPS_NUM+1
$ goto spawn_procs
$FINISH:
$ SET NOON
$ CLOSE NET
$ LOGOUT
$!
$!
$!
$detached:
$ name = f$getjpi ("0", "PRCNAM")
$ under = f$locate ("_", name)
$ node = f$extract (0, under, name)
$ directory = f$environment("default")
$ SH SYM DIRECTORY
$ SH DEF
$ define sys$login 'f$environment ("DEFAULT")
$ define sys$scratch sys$login:
$ SH LO/PROC
$ SH LO/JOB
$ appl = f$extract (under + 1, f$length (name) - under - 1, name)
$ write sys$output "Workstation is ''node'"
$ write sys$output "Application is ''appl'"
$ set disp/node='node'/create
$ DATA=F$EDIT(APPL,"COLLAPSE")
$ show sym data
$ IF DATA.EQS."TERMC" 
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$TERMINAL
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."BOOK"
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$BOOKREADER
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."VUE" 
$ THEN 
$ 	MC VUE$MASTER
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."CALENDAR"  
$ THEN 
$ 	MC DECW$CALENDAR
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."CALC"  
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$CALC
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."MAIL" 
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$MAIL
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."CLOCK" 
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$CLOCK
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."PSVIEWER" 
$ THEN 
	MC DECW$PSVIEWER
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."NOTEPAD" 
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$NOTEPAD
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."PUZZLE" 
$ THEN 
	MC DECW$PUZZLE
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."PAINT" 
$ THEN 
$	MC DECW$PAINT
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."WRITER" 
$ THEN 
$ 	MC DECW$WRITER
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."NOTES" 
$ THEN 
$	NOTES/DECWINDOWS
$ endif
$ IF DATA.EQS."ALLIN1" 
$ THEN 
$	 CHILD/DECTERM/PROCESS="ALL-IN-1"/TITLE="ALL-IN-1" -
		/ITITLE="ALL-IN-1" ALLIN1
$ ENDIF
$ IF DATA.EQS."DECTERM" 
$ THEN 
$	gosub create_decterm
$	DC:==$DECTERM
$       DC -interactive
$ ENDIF
$!
$ exit
$!
$create_decterm:
$! 
$! context=""
$!find_termc:
$! pid =f$pid(context)
$! if pid .eqs. "" then goto start_termc
$! pro=f$getjpi(pid,"PRCNAM")
$! if pro ="''request'" then return
$! goto find_termc
$!
$start_termc:
$ procedure = f$environment ("PROCEDURE")
$ request="''node'_TERMC"
$ run sys$system:loginout -
        /noauthorize -
        /uic='f$user () -
        /input='procedure  -
        /output='device'decw_net.log -
        /error='device'decw_net.err  -
        /privileges=all -
        /page_file=20000 -
        /maximum_working_set=2048 -
        /extent=4096 -
        /ast_limit=200 -
        /enqueue_limit=1200 -
        /file_limit=100 -
        /buffer_limit=40000 -
        /io_buffered=32767 -
        /io_direct=32767 -
        /process_name="''request'"
$ wait_decterm:
$ if f$trnlnm("DECW$DECTERM_MAILBOX_''node'::0.0") .nes. "" then return
$ wait 0:00:10
$ goto wait_decterm
$!

    I have another CREATE/TERM question.

    I use this command to create a terminal:

	WYRD_TERM == "CREATE/TERM=DECTERM/DETACH/DISPLAY=WYRD::0"

    Sometimes (I'm never there to see it) it gets blown away. When I try to
    create a new one, I often (enough to aggrivate) get this:

	%SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name

    1) What name is duplicate? This drives me nuts.

    2) Where do I look to get the reason for the DECTERM aborting?

    The only clue I have is that the system exec logical names 
    DECW$DECTERM_MAILBOX_WYRD::0.0 and DECW$TERMINAL_MAILBOX_WYRD::0.0
    are left hanging around, pointing to non-existant mailboxes.

    Kevin

Re: .12

>    Sometimes (I'm never there to see it) it gets blown away. When I try to
>    create a new one, I often (enough to aggrivate) get this:
>
>	%SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name
>
>    1) What name is duplicate? This drives me nuts.

This points up a problem with CREATE/TERM: it needs much better error
reporting.  I'm not sure what name is being duplicated; I don't think it would
be a logical name because DECterm's logical names aren't created with
LNM$M_NO_ALIAS.  It could be the DECW$TE_0 process name, although DECterm
tries to choose another name, such as DECW$TE_0A, if the process name is
already in use.

Here's an idea: instead of using /DISPLAY=WYRD::0, do this:

	$ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=WYRD
	$ CREATE/TERM=DECTERM/DETACH

That way DECterm will use a WSAn: device; there might be a bug in the way
/DISPLAY works.

Another idea is to wait for the DECW$DECTERM_MAILBOX_WYRD::0 and
DECW$TERMINAL_MAILBOX_WYRD::0 logical names to go away before trying to
create another DECterm window.  The logical names won't go away until the
previous DECterm controller exits.  If they never go away, then something is
going wrong, but I'm not sure what.

>    2) Where do I look to get the reason for the DECTERM aborting?

You can define a logical name DECW$DECTERM_OUTPUT in your LOGIN.COM (or
in the process that runs CREATE/TERM) to point to a log file, which you
can examine after the DECterm controller exits.

There is enough peculiar behavior here that I suggest that you submit a QAR.
I wish I'd had time during DECterm V2 development to make the CREATE/TERM
interface more reliable.

				-- Bob

    I can reproduce the DUPLNAM error at will. See QAR 1877 in the V5
    database for more info. The SET/DISPLAY workaround solves the
    problem.
    - Larry.

	I am new to decwindows and have read all the notes on create/term
without a solution to a problem I am encountering. Can anyone help?

DISCRIPTION:

	I am trying to build a standalone workstation that will be
used to show off many different applications to customers at trade shows. This
means that you plug the 3100 in and log into the account and PRESTO! everything
is up and flying. I am using VMS 5.3.

	Several of the applications I am running are old applications that
are BASIC based using FMS screen libraries. The problem I am having is getting
the applications to run. If I build a Fileview to run the application, the
application blows up with an FMS error. If I run it from a batch job, it
blows up the same way. It runs fine from decterm window, so I have been 
experimenting with the create/term command. It works great as I can
rename the titles and icons and colors and everything. This is wonderful.
the problem is that I cannot get the command to work with the startup. I
have built a command stream (x.com)that starts each application. As an example:

$...
$ create/term=decterm /nobroadcast -
$ /big_font -
$ /window=(rows..colum...) FLSTOCKDS
$!
$... next application

Where flstockds.exe is to be started in the window.
The command stream x.com is @ from an application. This application is part
of the autostart function. The applications come up just fine, but then
disappear when the last application is turned on. I have tried adding a
DCL wait command for 10 days to the end, but it is ignored. 

If the command stream is invoked from a current decterm window, everything
is fine. I cannot create the the term process windows detached as the
application command line will not work then.

Any idea of how to :

A: Make the command stream keep running after the creatation of the windows
   so that the processes stay alive?

B: Anyone been able to get a command line to work from a detached job (com
   files don't count).

C: Is there a trick to getting a FMS based application run from a fileview
   window?


     Thanks

     john

Re: .15

>Any idea of how to :
>
>A: Make the command stream keep running after the creatation of the windows
>   so that the processes stay alive?

You need to specify /WAIT in the create/term command line.

>B: Anyone been able to get a command line to work from a detached job (com
>   files don't count).

You can't give DECterm a command line to execute when you specify /DETACH,
if that's what you're asking.  You can use /INPUT to give DECterm a command
file to execute in the detached process.

				-- Bob

    
I wan't able to find an answer to the following problem.
    
I'm trying to use CREATE/TERMINAL on a client and have it display on a
workstation.  The terminal isn't created (at least I never see it) and
the %SYSTEM-F-NOLOGNAM error is displayed.  The output from the SHOW DISPLAY
command is

$ sho display

    Device:    WSA8:  [super]
    Node:      THEJUG
    Transport: DECNET
    Server:    0
    Screen:    0

The relevent lines from the server error log are

 4-OCT-1990 12:54:51.3 Connection 4b38c0 is accepted by Txport
 4-OCT-1990 12:54:52.4 Connection 4b38c0 is closed by Txport (status = 20e4)

VMS V5.3 on both systems
Any ideas?

thanks,
-will