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Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

Title:DECWINDOWS 26-JAN-89 to 29-NOV-90
Notice:See 1639.0 for VMS V5.3 kit; 2043.0 for 5.4 IFT kit
Moderator:STAR::VATNE
Created:Mon Oct 30 1989
Last Modified:Mon Dec 31 1990
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3726
Total number of notes:19516

1524.0. "DECW Field Test V2.0-Mail & DFS" by DELNI::CALLAHAN (Paul Callahan, NaCM, DTN 226 5171) Tue Oct 03 1989 17:54

Just installed FT V2.0 on a GPXII.  The workstation is using DFS to point
to a large cluster.  Previous version (SDC) of DECwindows would not let
me use the Mail application with the DFS pointer as the default.
This was presumably because DFS did not support Shared Write which
Mail required.

I just tried the FT V2.0 and it appears to work.  Should I continue...or
am I asking for trouble.  When I first brought up Mail on the workstation
with the DFS pointer as the default device, I had to go to the pull down 
menu for maintenance and run Scan Mail Directory for Mail Drawers....
whereupon DECwindows Mail scanned through 1280 mail messages, found
two more Mail Drawers and showed all of my mail messages.  Everything
appeared to be normal, with the exception of the fact that when 
I sent some test messages, using NM% transport they were put in the 
NMail queues and marked Holding until (20minutes in the future).  20
minutes later, NMail did fire them off, but I began to wonder so I
stopped using it.  Please advise.  Thanks.

-Paul Callahan

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1524.1STAR::MFOLEYRebel without a ClueWed Oct 04 1989 13:436

	It's not supported and you're asking for trouble.

						mike

1524.2PRAVDA::JACKSONKing CynicWed Oct 04 1989 14:5341
RE: .1  Thanks for that very informative and helpful reply mike, bad day?


RE: .0


Mike is right, you are looking for trouble.  The root of the trouble
is that DFS (and VMS RMS is partially to blame) does not support opening
files for shared write access.  With this restriction, when you open your
mail, anyone else who tries to open your mail is in trouble because 
the file access will fail as DFS has opened the file for exclusive access.
(Notes also runs into this problem if you have a batch job that opens
updates your notebook while the notes window is open)


Anyway, Nmail probably tries to do something with  your mail on 
the first try, fails and thus requeues itself to run in 20 minutes.


Another side effect is that you cannot receive mail while you're reading
your mail (or when the mail file is open).  This can be a big problem.!


I tried to live with this for a while, and then tried another tact, which
also was difficult because of the way that RMS deals with search lists.
I kept my mail on my workstation, and everything else on my DFS served
disks.  I then made my default "disk" a search list that started
on the DFS end, and ended on the local end.  Unfortunately, when
RMS looks for something, and doesn't find it, it then looks in the
second place.  If the directory doesn't exist, it returns fatal errors
of directory not found, not file not found, and thus lots of other things
blow up and don't work right.  (TPU is one, DECwrite is another)


So, I ended up dumping DFS as I couldn't live with these restrictions,
and got my managment to buy me a disk.   If I were a real, paying
DFS customer, I wouldn't be all taht happy.....


-bill

1524.3STAR::MFOLEYPresident, Fishbusters Inc.Wed Oct 04 1989 16:3716
RE: .2

	Yup, at times...

	The reason I didn't go into it is because it's already been
	covered MANY times over in the DFS conference and been mentioned
	many times to the management that oversee's the system management
	of DELNI. (I used to manage DELNI. I know of what I type) Yet, they
	are still, or were until recently maybe, still trying to foist DFS
	upon the users.

	Don't get me wrong, DFS is GREAT what what it's intended to do. But
	it just plain won't work for something like this.

							mike

1524.4thanks.DELNI::CALLAHANPaul Callahan, NaCM, DTN 226 5171Wed Oct 04 1989 22:385
    RE:2
    
    Thanks for the clarification.  And yes, I'm glad I'm not a paying
    customer of DFS.  ....awaiting something better.

1524.5There IS something better!NITMOI::PESENTIJPWed Oct 11 1989 10:038
Am I missing something, or is there a reason you are not just running the mail
application with the output display set to your workstation?  I have DECwindows
MAIL running on the 8800 in our cluster, and the display on my VS2000/GPX.  It
runs beautifully.  My workstation mail profile has forwarding set to the 
cluster, and I don't use that mail file for anything. 

					_JP

1524.6From what I've heard....STAR::MFOLEYRebel without a ClueWed Oct 11 1989 11:067
RE: .5

	The management of that cluster has chosen not to support DECwindows
	and DECwindows applications due to the extra memory/cpu requirements.

							mike