Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

TeleLOGIC is a company from Sweeden...and they showed their stuff stuff
(with Motif partially done) at Xhibition'89, in San Jose, CA last month.

The product is called TeleUSE, and they can be reached at:

LeleLOGIC AB
Teknikrigen 2
S-583 30 Linkoping
Sweeden

Phone: +46 13 21 40 40
Fax :     +46 13 21 36 36

They have a  US contact (Jan Hull ...in California), but I don't have his
number handy.

BTW:  The product was shown on a DECstation 3100.

Kris..

	I have info on a Canadian Company who will be releasing 
an interface generator for Motif / DECwindows in January.

	Visual Edge
	Tel 514 332 6430
	Managing Director : Michael Foody


	If you need any more info send me mail or contact Visual Edge
	directly.

    "Prototyping" covers a whole lot of ground.  The broad meaning
    of prototyping is simply a model that aids in the development of the
    final form.
    
    Developing an application using UIL before the implementation is
    complete is, in a sense, prototyping.  And Digital has it now.
    
    The informal names for the tools I think you are describing are:
    
    IDT: Interactive Design Tool
    
    An IDT is a layout editor or interface editor.  It may or may not have
    a code generator.  It may or may not have an interface "animator" or
    simulator.  Typically, to be useful it generates UIL or (ugh!) C code
    that builds arg lists and creates widgets.
    
    UIMS: User Interface Management System
    
    A UIMS consists of the visual elements of the user interface and a
    run-time component that manages or intermediates dialog between the
    user and the application.
    
    An announced conference at CLT::DWICS_USER discusses these topics and
    you can follow up there with the Digital software engineers looking at
    this area.
    
    I hope that you share your requirements with our own KOBAL::(Ross)
    FANEUF and KOBAL::(John) RONAN as well as Michael Foody of Visual Edge
    (who, by the way) has _not_ announced software for DECwindows anyway or
    any other third parties.

Re 3

	The customer base I am dealing with ( Technical ISV's ) are looking
for an IDT and would be happy with c code although many of them , particularly
those who deal in intenational markets , are particularly keen on UIL
	In a competitive environment where time to market is critically
important SUN is wooing customers with an interactive editor which will not
be available until December but is being demonstrated this week at the SUN
EXPO here in California.
	Most of my customers are really turned off by Xview and realise that
it is a poor substitute for the design concept of XUI and UIL but when faced with a
competitive situation they often look to the near term and they can see  
the ability to get a product to market more quickly by uisng an IDT.
	I would like to see us "Program Announce" DWIgen and make preliminary
copies available in the field so that cutomers can be persuaded to use UIL in
the short term with the promise of compatibility with DWIgen in the near
future.
	In the absence of this software and when faced with pressure for
a fast prototyping tool I will continue to solicit input from third parties
to help keep DECwindows as the platform of choice. 

    Paul, re .4, I agree with you 100%.  Customers are desperately seeking
    some sort of "point and shoot" interface builder similar to the functionality
    provided by DWICS.  The best product I have seen so far is the TeleUse 
    product that was mentioned earlier.  I saw it at Xhibition '89 and was very
    impressed. 
    
    An earlier noter mentioned the dwics_user conference and now I will turn the
    flame on for a while.
    
    
    I have been following that conference since September 1988.  I have also
    used the dwics prototype under Ultrix since that time, and feel I know
    the prototype very well.  What bugs the heck out of me is how silent that
    group is about what they are doing, when FT S/W will be available, etc.
    It's been almost 1 year since the Dwics prototype was released, (which,BTW,
    seemed to work pretty well)  and now we are told that it will probably be
    Feb of 1990 before it's a product!   How long can it take to go from a 
    working prototype to a product?  The Swedish beat us by almost a year with
    TeleUse!  Their's even generates some of the C code.
    Flame off - 
    
    I hope that we can get this thing on the market soon.  Every DECWindows
    presentation I give, generates a series of questions arond this whole
    topic.  If we want DECWindows/Motif to really become an industry standard,
    tools like dwics/dwigen are absolutely a must, and we need them now.
    
    Brent
    

>                              What bugs the heck out of me is how silent that
>    group is about what they are doing, when FT S/W will be available, etc.
>    It's been almost 1 year since the Dwics prototype was released, (which,BTW,
>    seemed to work pretty well)  and now we are told that it will probably be
>    Feb of 1990 before it's a product!   How long can it take to go from a 
>    working prototype to a product?

    Couldn't resist... Are you new to Digital? Seriously though: the DWICS
    prototype we all found in love with was just that: a prototype; the
    result of a feasability study if you want. It cannot even be considered
    to be Base Level 0 of a product. Once you know for sure that what you
    envisioned is indeed doable, you need to enter the traditional product
    developement cycles. I'm not surprised that more than a year is needed
    to spec, design and code this suite of products; even a relatively
    simple DECwindows product can be fairly complex to code and require an
    usual number of lines of code, and DWICS isn't simple!

    .3 is right. Given that the products you want won't be ready before Q3,
    and that you would like to have something to tell customers,  you
    need to get in touch with Mike CLT::Pinette, product manager for DWI*,
    and see what can be done/what is being done.

    Denis.

   Has anybody done any research into third party tools that will
   generate Ada code for X ?  If so I'd appreciate a pointer in
   that direction as I'm working with a customer on a large
   DECwindows application that is written in Ada.

Telelogic's Teleuse product will generate animated language code (UIL in fall)
that can be converted into ADA or C.

And they run all the X widget sets.  Motif, Athena and XUI.

Currently running with ULTRIX DECwindows, but they say VMS is in the works.
You have to see it...it is very impressive software engineering.
They have a nice animation debugger...a critical piece missing in DECwindows/
XUI and Motif UIL!

Kris...