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Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

Title:	DECWINDOWS 26-JAN-89 to 29-NOV-90
Notice:	See 1639.0 for VMS V5.3 kit; 2043.0 for 5.4 IFT kit
Moderator:	STAR::VATNE

Created:	Mon Oct 30 1989
Last Modified:	Mon Dec 31 1990
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	3726
Total number of notes:	19516

1064.0. "Popup dialog box from popup menu?" by LENSMN::bonini (I was grepped by a zombie with a pipe!!!) Wed Jul 05 1989 15:49


	In several DECwindows applications, I've noticed that functions on
menus appear more than once.  One occurance will be the standard or quick
version of the function and the second will allow customization of function
specific parameters. 

	For instance, in DECwrite, on the file menu there is a quick print and
a print... entry.  Quick print prints the file immediately to the default print
queue for the default format etc.  Print... causes a dialog box to popup which
allows customization of many print-related attributes.

	A CMP (are we still allowed to call them that?) is porting to the
DECstation and would like to provide similar functionality.  The problem is
that he has MANY functions that would appear on a menu and providing two
entries for each would make the menu VERY long.  He would like to do something
similar to cascading menus except that when he pulls the cursor to the right he
either gets an event delivered to the client or is allowed to popup a dialog box.

	This seems much neater than how DECwindows applications do it now (with
the two menu entries) so I guess it's either not possible or is very difficult
or we would have done it, right?

	Anyway, any suggestions on how he might be able to accomplish this?  He
is open to the idea of grouping functions more intelligently and perhaps having
an MB2 action routine on the pulldown ENTRY that lets him customize parameters
for that set of commands.  Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1064.1	Pullright ??	TALLIS::ZANZERKIA		`Wed Jul 05 1989 17:02`	9
	How about pull right menus ?? DECWrite has several of them.. i.e "File" menu can have one entry Print -> where arrow expands to: "Quick Print" "Print..." Robert
1064.2	How FileView solved this problem	DECWIN::KLEIN		`Wed Jul 05 1989 17:15`	22
	FileView's approach is to use the "Shift" key in conjunction with the menu's upclick. If the Shift key is held down when the mouse button is released, then the "..." form of the verb is executed. That is, the dialog box (if any) is displayed before the verb is actually executed. The state of the dialog box can then be saved (ie., the dialog box state can be "sticky"). If the Shift key is not held down, then the default behavior of the verb is taken. Usually, this means that the "quick" form of the verb is executed, bypassing any dialog box (and using the "sticky" settings from the last time the dialog box state was saved). In the dialog box itself is a "[] Hide this dialog" toggle button that can be used to determine whether the default behavior of the verb is the quick or the long form. Holding down the Shift key forces the dialog to be displayed regardless of the setting of the Hide toggle. Does this help? -steve-
1064.3	Thanks so far.	LENSMN::bonini	I was grepped by a zombie with a pipe!!!	`Thu Jul 06 1989 08:54`	21
	Thanks for these two replies. I talked to him about pullright menus (that's what I refered to as cascading menus in the base note) but hadn't thought about using them in the way you suggested. I'll run it by him. I like the second alternative even better, the idea of using the shift key. The only potential objection I can see is that the interface then become two-handed. Some people (I seem to remember from my sales support days) get real sensitive about using two hands. Along those lines, would it be possible to use a second mouse button like the shift key? For instance, I hold down MB1 and drag to the desired menu button then press MB2 and I get the dialog box. I think there's probably a subtle difference between these two approaches but I'm not sure I understand completely what it is. Again, thanks for the help so far.
1064.4	Grandfathering the Chorded Cancel	DECWIN::KLEIN		`Thu Jul 06 1989 11:06`	12
	Pressing MB2 while MB1 is down is considered a "chorded cancel" (which behaves like an upclick over deadspace). Chorded cancel is goodness. I don't think that chorded buttons are used for anything else in the toolkit. And, in terms of portability, chorded buttons don't work well on one-button mice. (Not to say that two-handed mousing is an especially good thing either.) But, by allowing the user to customize whether a dialog box should be "hidden", the need to use the Shift key can be minimized. -steve-
1064.5	do you want the capability to be "hidden" or obvious?	DEDHED::SPINE	Tom Spine	`Thu Jul 20 1989 09:38`	9
	There is one disadvantage to FileView's approach that you and your customer may want to consider. Those users who do not read manuals and who simply just "explore" the interface may never find the "quick" capability. The advantage of pull-down and pull-right (cascading) menus is that they clearly show what capabilities are available. Shift-upclicking on menu items constitute a "hidden" capability. tms
1064.6	Right	LENSMN::bonini	We apologize for the inconvenience.	`Thu Jul 20 1989 10:27`	13
	Re: .-1 That's right. It is also inconsistent with the way the application works now (and this is a port, remember). When I ran some of these ideas by the developer, the two-handed approach was dismissed immediately. He seems to have come up with another alternative which I think involves grouping functions with like customizations onto the same menu and then providing a customize button. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.