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Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

Title:DECWINDOWS 26-JAN-89 to 29-NOV-90
Notice:See 1639.0 for VMS V5.3 kit; 2043.0 for 5.4 IFT kit
Moderator:STAR::VATNE
Created:Mon Oct 30 1989
Last Modified:Mon Dec 31 1990
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3726
Total number of notes:19516

602.0. "Emacs Meta key on VMS and/or DECwindows" by DECWIN::FISHER (Burns Fisher 381-1466, ZKO3-4/W23) Fri Apr 14 1989 18:03

Hi,

Someone asked me the following question, which I hope some users of
EMACS in the audience might be able to help with:

How can you get "meta" using DECterm?

Of course, the first thing I asked him was what he expected meta to
do in terms of the ascii characters the terminal sent.  He replied that
there were two possibilities: First that a key modified by meta would
"have its high bit set".  Second that a key modified by meta would be
preceded by an esc.  Neither of these seem very satisfactory in a
multinational, ansi-escape-sequence environment, and I'm not sure you
could (or should!) convince DECterm to do either.

So the question is, for those of you who use EMACS on VMS, what DOES
meta do?

Burns

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
602.1bypass DECterm and it's there (for GNU EMACS)HIT::GLASERSteve Glaser DTN 237-2586 SHR1-3/E29Fri Apr 14 1989 19:1421
    GNU Emacs can talk directly to X, bypassing DECterm.  In that
    environment, it treats META (aka Symbol or Compose or Alt) as an extra
    "shift" key.  You can bind functions to different keys and META is a
    modifier on the key. 
    
    There are versions of GNU that work on VMS DECwindoes listed in
    the GNU notesfile (AITG::GNU).
    
    Unfortunately, due to bugs in the Ultrix X Server and/or XLib in UWS
    2.0, GNU doesn't work properly in that environment.  If you rin
    the MIR X11R3 stuff, you're ok though.
    
    If you're asking what should DECterm do to support EMACS META key
    functionality, then answer is any of (1) nothing, use X directly it's
    *much* better and faster, (2) prefix with ``ESC'' (this is what GNU
    wants on most terminals), or (3) add the top bit (some real terminals
    do this, particularly those sold to the Internet community [HDS/Concept
    and Ann Arbor Ambassador come to mind here]. 
    
    Steveg 

602.2Not a problemDDIF::TANNENBAUMTPU DeveloperFri Apr 14 1989 22:4814
    "Meta" is an artifact of a nine-bit byte environment.  The EMACS' that
    I've seen (particularly Barry Scott's VAX EMACS, which is derived from
    the same parent as Unipress EMACS) will accept an <ESC> as a prefix for
    "meta".
    
    The only thing that DECterm can or should do for "meta" is send a
    <ESC>.  Anything else (such as "set the high bit") will conflict with
    the Latin-1 character set.
    
    On the Customize/Keyboard menu, you can cause DECterm to send an <ESC>
    instead of the "~".  This should be sufficient for most EMACS users.
    
    	- Barry

602.3TnxDECWIN::FISHERBurns Fisher 381-1466, ZKO3-4/W23Mon Apr 17 1989 11:374
Great...thanks to both of you for the info.

Burns

602.6VWSENG::KLEINSORGEToys &#039;R&#039; UsMon Apr 24 1989 09:178
    
    Re: .4
    
    Is it wise to put functional specs for a (as-yet) non-existant terminal
    (or for that matter *any* functional spec) into a general distribution
    notesfile?
    

602.7maybeXANADU::FLEISCHERBob 381-0895 ZKO3-2/T63Mon Apr 24 1989 17:228
re Note 602.6 by VWSENG::KLEINSORGE:

>     Is it wise to put functional specs for a (as-yet) non-existant terminal
>     (or for that matter *any* functional spec) into a general distribution
>     notesfile?
  
Perhaps.  It depends.

602.8I should have thought of thatHANNAH::MESSENGERBob MessengerMon Apr 24 1989 17:538
Re: .6, .7

In this case the answer is "no".  Thanks for pointing this out, Fred.  My
brain was in neutral Sunday afternoon (since I hadn't slept since Saturday
morning...).

				-- Bob

602.9Note 602.4 has been deleted.IO::MCCARTNEYJames T. McCartney III - DTN 381-2244 ZK02-2/N24Mon Apr 24 1989 22:5310
Bob contacted me directly regarding the note. I agree that it is best that this
not be posted here and agreed to delete the note. My reasoning for originally 
posting the information was in the interest of bettering our products. I was
under the (mis-)assumption that the spec was generally public. 

Regret any problem this may have caused.

James