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Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

Title:DECWINDOWS 26-JAN-89 to 29-NOV-90
Notice:See 1639.0 for VMS V5.3 kit; 2043.0 for 5.4 IFT kit
Moderator:STAR::VATNE
Created:Mon Oct 30 1989
Last Modified:Mon Dec 31 1990
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3726
Total number of notes:19516

152.0. "Wish List" by LESLIE::LESLIE (Andy ��� Leslie) Wed Feb 08 1989 09:16

    This note to contain items for a Wish List. I pre-agreed this with DW
    devos.
    
    As I'm nothing to do with DECWindows development, no commitments! :-)
    
    Andy

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
152.1Timestamp for MessageBoardLESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieWed Feb 08 1989 09:186
    
    I'd like to see timestamps available for messages on the Session
    Managers display window. 
    
    Set up param maybe?

152.2Official, Supported, Banner UtilityLESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieWed Feb 08 1989 09:203
    I'd like to see an official "banner" program as part of the dw
    baselevel/kit.

152.3Official, Supported, Background Display ProgramLESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieWed Feb 08 1989 09:237
    I'd like a utility in the DW baselevel/kit to display a given picture
    (DDIF probably) as the background:
    
    		o whilst waiting to login;
    		o whilst running normally;
    		o whilst session is paused.

152.4Official, Supported, AutoFocusLESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieWed Feb 08 1989 09:255
    I'd like to see a utility to place input focus and pop the window
    underneath the mouse cursor.
    
    Andy

152.5Window RotateLESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieWed Feb 08 1989 09:273
    I'd like to be able to rotate windows and their contents as well as
    move them around.

152.6Live icon tiny fontLESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieWed Feb 08 1989 09:298
    I'd like the extremely tiny font that Fred used with VWS to be
    available for so-called "live" icons to be possible. 
    
    Selection of this would have to be supported by the applications, I
    have no doubt, but would still be nice to have available.
    
    Andy

152.7Alive (but not too much) iconVISA::BIJAOUITomorrow Never KnowsWed Feb 08 1989 09:349
    The way the Session Manager icon works (it reverses when a modification
    occurs in the Session Manager window) would be perfect as well for
    DECterm icons. Just like the good old 'New Data' of VWS, without going
    to the hassle of the small fonts, which would make the icons of
    different size (problems to position them in the icon box, possible
    loss of space, etc ...).
    
    Pierre.

152.8If wishes were fishes...CIM::KAIRYSMichael KairysWed Feb 08 1989 10:5614
    Official, supported cycle key!
    
    Application startup control via session manager.
    
    I'd say "more fonts for DECterm" but I've already said that in the
    dECterm conference.
    
    I'm tempted to say something vague like "supported customization
    methods" but I suspect that's too big an issue to be addressed so
    casually...

    P.S. I took the liberty of adding the keyword "wishlist" to the base
    note of this topic.

152.9Another keen cyclistMARVIN::WARWICKWell, that'll never workWed Feb 08 1989 12:2816
I agree with .-1 about the VWS-like CYCLE key. I still find one of the most
painful things about the DECwindows interface is having to use the mouse
to switch between windows - it's just too difficult to do, especially when you
have a lot on your screen, and you have to move things out of the way
first to select the window you want.

And of course a key sequence that would shrink any window to an icon would also
be nice.

I seem to remember reading before that part of the added value for customers of
DECwindows over MIT-X was supposed to be in the window manager. These seem
like ideal "Window Manager Added Value Items".

Trevor

152.10BESSIE::HOYTNon-information overloadWed Feb 08 1989 13:153
    I would like the option of having focus follow the pointer rather than
    the sticky focus used by the DECwindows WM.

152.11PSW::WINALSKIPaul S. WinalskiWed Feb 08 1989 13:2824
Supported customization methods.  At a minimum, I should be able to set:

	- foreground and background colors for important widgets
	- initial state (iconized vs. non-iconized)
	- geometry of windows for important widgets
	- placement of window and icon

for each application.  DECwindows-wide, I should be able to set:

	- default foreground and background colors for important widget classes
	- initial state for all applications (iconized vs. non-iconized)
	- colors for things like pushbuttons, scroll bars, titles

Specifically for DECterm:

	- icon for particular DECterms should be settable, preferably through
	  use of an OSC sequence

Most of what's needed in this area is application-independent and could be
handled via a "customization widget" that reads and writes resource files.

--PSW


152.12Wishes or Dreams?WJG::GUINEAUWed Feb 08 1989 17:0825

re .0-.6

DECwindows developers wish:  Get Andy a job implementing all his (and our)
wishes!  :-)

re .9:

No need to search through windows to select one. Just keep part of the ICON box
visible. When you want a hidden window, click the icon box to the top, then
double-click on the icon of the wndow you want. It pops to the front with
focus!


I like Paul's list. Customization is something that should be extensive and
consistent across all DECwindows "supported" applications. COLOR COLOR COLOR!

An additional one for DECterm: More OSC like sequences for window
placement, size, font, ....



John

152.13LESLIE::LESLIEPhase what?Wed Feb 08 1989 17:299
>                       <<< Note 152.12 by WJG::GUINEAU >>>
>re .0-.6
>DECwindows developers wish:  Get Andy a job implementing all his (and our)
>wishes!  :-)

    Heh! If you find a pot of money with my name on it, let me know.
    
    Andy

152.14AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D&#039;EramoWed Feb 08 1989 18:4415
     As well as ease and thoroughness of customization, which was
     already mentioned, ...
     
     1.  For the session manager, as well as the icon changing
     when a new message arrives, please add a resource that will
     cause it to deiconify when a new message arrives.  That's
     certainly easier to notice than an icon going reverse video!
     
     2.  A window manager "MB2" or popup menu for title bars,
     that allows one to see and edit things like the title, icon
     name, icon pixmaps, position, etc.  Maybe some read-only
     info, too, like the window id.
     
     Dan

152.15STAR::KLEINSORGEToys &#039;R&#039; UsWed Feb 08 1989 23:2060
    1.	Cycle.
    
    2.	Many terminal emulator features, OSC's, ANSI color text,
    	rectangular copy & paste, graphic copy & paste, disk logging
    	of transcript and print extension, rectangular area editing
    	functions, and on and on.
    
    3.	Kernel mode access to DECwindows.
    
    4.	Robust client features, i.e. a means to re-establish a broken
    	link from the server.
    
    5.	A feature to make the mouse pointer dissappear when KB input
    	is detected in the window that it is currently over.
    
    6.	A *secure* "Pause Workstation".
    
    7.	Ability to add menu items to the session manager "Create" so
    	as to remove the need to go through FileView or a terminal window.
    
    8.	A better way of organizing applications than a 40 line pulldown
    	in FileView.
    
    9.	COLOR Paint.
    
    10.	A object oriented OOTB graphics editor.
    
    11.	Scaled, rotated and sheared text extension.
    
    12.	Guaranteed backing store extension.
    
    13.	OOTB display list manager and routines that can read and write the
    	display list to a DDIF file.
    
    14.	COLOR Postscript.
    
    15.	HPGL output from Convert.
    
    16.	A version that runs well in 4mb on a VS2000.
    
    17.	Multiple simultanious input devices (tablet, mouse, trackball,
    	touchscreen, paddle-box, joysticks).
    
    18.	SMG that runs on both CCT and DECwindows (native).
    
    19.	Make the icon box optional.
    
    20.	A OOTB high-level interface - GObE, GKS, whatever.
    
    21.	Pulldown menu's that don't fall off the edge of the screen.
    
    22.	Initial window creation so that the window isn't half off the
    	screen unless the program or user *really* wants it that way.
    
    23.	Better coordination (for me) since I can't get all this
    	multi-button and key combinations right or even memorized.
    
    24.	And a partridge in a pear tree :-)
    

152.16Liberated Icons!TBD1::BURLEIGHHuman life begins at conceptionThu Feb 09 1989 07:463
    An option to position icons anywhere in the root window,
    without an icon box.

152.17INFACT::NORTHERNeasy as shoving a goat uphill...Thu Feb 09 1989 09:278
    I haven't seen it yet, so I'll wishlist it.

    Not having to hold the furshluggina mouse button down whilst dragging things
    around the screen.

    Ability (option?) to click on something, and "hold" it, then click again
    to drop it.

152.18INFACT::NORTHERNeasy as shoving a goat uphill...Thu Feb 09 1989 09:292
    Supported SET_TITLE from DCL.

152.19KONING::KONINGNI1D @FN42eqThu Feb 09 1989 11:499
Re .12: using the icon box to bring things to the top works only for windows
that have an associated icon.  Many applications put up windows (with
status messages, for example) that have the iconize button blacked out.  If
you misplace such a window -- easy to do since they are often small -- you
have quite a lot of "push to the bottom" to be done before you find it
again.

	paul

152.20Eliminate spurious mouse input to applicationsPRNSYS::LOMICKAJJeff LomickaThu Feb 09 1989 13:1929
I wish that we would make a rule that only ONE application would EVER
interpret a single input event!

If you are using click-to-focus (my preference), the click which causes
focus should NOT be interpreted by the application as some sort of
input.

The event should either be used by the window manager, or ignored by the
window manager and used by the application.  NEVER, EVER, EVER both.

(Hey, what's in this window down here  (click) oh, it says "press MB1 to
initiate self destruct sequence...")

I'm sick of accidently changing input focus from message body to the
"to" field of MAIL windows, just because I clicked on it to pop it to
the top.  I'm sick of clicking on terminal emulators running Emacs
moving my editing cursor.  In my schematic capture editor, clicking on
the menu area issues a command - one I might not want to issue.  What if
it's the only part of the window I can see?

Application after application - this continues to be an aggrivating
problem, and I can't imagine how it ever got into the system in the
first place!

Thanks for giving me a place to air this frustration.

Oh, and I like Fred's #17,  VS100 got that one right.


152.21BookReaderGOSOX::RYANDECwindows MailThu Feb 09 1989 13:234
	Please! Use the SVN widget for the table of contents and index.

	Mike

152.22Remove TPU handling of mouse.STAR::MANNThu Feb 09 1989 17:084
	Cut and paste from/to TPU edit sessions (the obvious way).

				Bruce

152.23While we're at it...CURIUM::GABRIELCMP/ISV DECwindows Tech SupportThu Feb 09 1989 20:294
    
    
    How about a DECwindows font editor to go with the font compiler ???

152.24DEcwindows for the masses!ATLAST::BOUKNIGHTW. Jack BouknightThu Feb 09 1989 21:004
    How about DCL access to the toolkit?
    
    jack

152.25PEABOD::HOLTRobert Holt UCS4,415-691-4750Thu Feb 09 1989 21:433
    
    User defined events...

152.26An orientation on capturing low-endTEASE::WEAVERFri Feb 10 1989 01:3418
    In addition to color postscript... color sixel
    
    As an enhancment to color support, support for generating color
    postscript directly through the the developers interface.
    
    Although CDA is provided it's still kinda hard to use, and some
    applications would be hindered by having to go through an intermediate
    step (DDIF to postscript). I gues what comes to mind is for a large
    drawing intended for a large linotype (this does go outside the
    intended scope of CDA???). I'm thinking of engineering applications,
    or for quick prints from some applications.
    
    Support for converting some of the existing low-end
    clip-art/drawings/etc in the native product as opposed to requiring
    imaging products. I think if it's important to get PC support, it's
    also important to handle the art in a way other than the clipboard
    (i.e. convert .pict, .tiff, .paint, .draw from PC's and MAC's).

152.27Typeahead sync with window switchILO::VMURPHYBoomtown BluesFri Feb 10 1989 10:0911
        I would like to see a synchronisation of input focus and the typeahead
        buffer. My machine is a GPX with only 5 megs. so it is fairly slow
        and when I switch windows (ie click on new window ... start typing)
        I get some text in the previous window and the rest in the new one.
        
        My machine is due for upgrade but even so I would consider this 
        to be close to a bug !
        

        Vinny.

152.28Resource editorPANAMA::GILLIAMFri Feb 10 1989 17:414
How about a resource construction editor to create object trees? When you're
done creating a dialog box, you save it and the UIL compiler is invoked 
automatically.

152.29my top 5 wishlistTOHOKU::TAYLORSun Feb 12 1989 19:596
    1. turn off the "acknowledge" window
    2. cycle
    3. input focas is always somewhere
    4. decterm does OSC sequences
    5. mouse-less operation

152.30Help for programmersULTRA::WRAYJohn WraySun Feb 12 1989 21:074
    Status-returns and error-checking in the toolkit and Xlib routines.
    Currently when you pass them invalid parameters they either
    access-violate, or simply ignore you. 

152.31Bingo, you have it..AXEL::FOLEYRebel without a ClueSun Feb 12 1989 22:136
       RE: .29
       
       	Type Cntrl-F3 for mouseless operation..
       
       							mike

152.32STAR::KLEINSORGEToys &#039;R&#039; UsMon Feb 13 1989 11:276
    RE .31
    
    Not "mouse emulation" but a real "mouseless" system.
    
    

152.33BESSIE::HOYTNon-information overloadMon Feb 13 1989 13:562
    The ability to move the top of a window off the top of the screen.

152.34Believe my mouse buttonsEVETPU::REINIGThis too shall changeMon Feb 13 1989 15:2616
    1. Have keystrokes after MB1's go to the correct window  (as per a
       previous reply).
    
    2. When I give input focus to a widget, give that widget's process a 
       priority boost.  I especially hate output to a window in the
       background eating up all my CPU cycles.  When I give input focus
       to a window, that window is the most important.  It should have
       priority over everything else.
    
    3. Vertical Icon box support.
    
    4. A separate busy icon so that I don't have to de-iconize the session
       manager to pause my work station.
    
                                    August G. Reinig

152.35WJG::GUINEAUTue Feb 14 1989 08:447
How about a user-tailorable MB2 pop-up menu for the background (root?) window?

I could then put things like PAUSE, Run Favorite Tool, etc.. in 
that menu (like a vue applications menu without the overhead)

John

152.36Popup Menus on ICONSORAN::ORANDave OranTue Feb 14 1989 09:258
I'd like to see popup menus over ICONS, via MB2.

This wouldd allow some functions to be available for iconized
applications, for example:

1. Pause a session without de-iconizing the Session Manager
2. Read new Mail without de-iconizing Mail

152.37Ultrix background pop-up menusCADSYS::COOKALOE, ALOEWed Feb 15 1989 00:4811
    For the wish in .35, Ultrix has it now! Or, rather, its window manager
    does.
    
    A number of functions, which are accessed through the title bar of a
    window under VMS DECwindow's window manager, are instead accessible
    from pop-up menus invoked, in a number of ways, from the background
    window. These can be customized by the user.
    
    I have never seen this in action - I just read part of the Ultrix
    DECwindows doc set.

152.38Just another want..ASIA::MCLEMANArs Longa Vita Brevis...Wed Feb 15 1989 06:585
I would like to see the ability to edit the Icon text on the fly, like UWM
under X10 (and I assume X11) did.

Jeff

152.39Auto Pause featureRTOVC7::RIMMERNo niin.......on pitk� satuWed Feb 15 1989 09:425
    Option to automatically display the "Pause" screen after a user
    specified period of keyboard inactivity.
    
    ...........Marcus

152.40Who's keyboard is inactive?TOHOKU::TAYLORThu Feb 16 1989 19:219
    
    re: .39 If pause were activated after "keyboard" inactivity then
    you might be in the middle of doing a mouse-only application
    with lots of mouse and window activity. 
    
    mike
    
    BTW Fred is correct in .31, ^F3 is not having it now.

152.41ReGIS & MenusBOSTAC::MORRISTom MorrisFri Feb 17 1989 16:373
- Menus (pull-downs & pull-rights) which don't go off the screen
- Adequate ReGIS implementation (as good as UIS or better)

152.42a nit! let's pick it!AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D&#039;EramoSat Feb 18 1989 12:4115
     If icons have to be in an icon box, I would like a window manager
     option that forces the icon box to always stay behind every other
     window.

     I use the push-to-back button a lot, and when I tried using a full-
     screen sized icon box (so as to be able to position the icons anywhere)
     push to back makes the window disappear completely (behind the icon
     box).  I prefer the small icon box behavior where much of the pushed
     window is still there to see.

     Of course, doing away with the box altogether (but keeping wm*flash)
     would be even better.

     Dan

152.43WSINT::MCLEMANWorkstations &#039;R&#039; UsSun Feb 19 1989 10:106
    Isn't there a resource to do this? I thought wm*iconBox.stickey: true
    or something like that.
    
    Jeff
    

152.44Zoom inTFH::MCGUIRESoftware DrivenSun Feb 19 1989 16:1623
    Wish:
    
    		A sequence or option to MAXimize a window (as in
    	Micrsoft Windows for the PC).  Sort of the opposite of an ICON,
    	a maximized window would enlarge to fill the entire screen
        (or perhaps exclude the icon box).   This is VERY handy when
        working on serveral tasks and you wish to focus on one particular
        window for a short time.
    
    		In MS-Windows you simple double-click on the active
        application's menu bar.  Double clicking again restores the 
        previous size and position.
    
    		In DECWindows you must move the window to the upper-right
       corner of the screen and resize it to cover the entire display.
       When you wish to restore it, repeat the sizing and moving
       operations.  

     -Gerry
    
    
                    

152.45You *can* keep the icon box in the backVIRRUS::DIEWALDWindows and murders and orcs, oh my!Mon Feb 20 1989 13:5111
Stolen from a note in one of the many DECwindows conferences and placed
in my decw$xdefaults.dat file.

#    
#    You can avoid having to shift-click to make the icon box sticky
#    by using the commands below.  This makes the icon box sticky, but 
#    eveything else (except, for some reason, VUE), not.
#        
*sticky:			False
wm*sticky:			True

152.46LESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieMon Feb 20 1989 16:212
    Please define what "sticky" means....

152.47AXEL::FOLEYRebel without a ClueMon Feb 20 1989 17:108

	Do a SHIFT-MB1 on the push to the back button (next to the resize).
	A little area with grey out. The window is now "sticky" is: stuck
	to the background.

							mike

152.48LESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� LeslieMon Feb 20 1989 17:383
    Y'know I really like the idea of double click on a title bar expoding
    the window to full screen....

152.49thanks, but it's already stickyAITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D&#039;EramoMon Feb 20 1989 23:3311
     re: replies to .42
     
     My icon box is already sticky, it doesn't pop to the front
     when I deiconify something.  But pushing another window to
     the back makes it go behind the full-screen icon box; my
     request was for it to stay in front of the icon box but
     behind everything else.  The icon box is full-screen to be
     able to position icons anywhere, not to cover other windows.
     
     Dan

152.50CR, ^C, ^Z buttons on title barAITG::LACHIUSANatural StupidityTue Feb 21 1989 10:206
	I saw this on MACKermit or some Mac based terminatl emulation
program:  "buttons" for Carriage-return, control-c, control-z on the title
bar or menu bar.  This allows one to paste a command into a window and
then execute it without using the keyboard.

152.51My $.02 worthDSM::CRAIGNice computers don&#039;t go down :-)Tue Feb 21 1989 22:3211
    1.  The ability to place a message on the "PAUSE" screen (a la BUSY).
    
    2.  The ability to select a DECterm title - that way I can look
    at the icon and tell which window is doing what (work, notes, etc.)
    Maybe something like SET TERM/TITLE="some string"?
    
    3.  The ability to save customizations to DECwindows mail (like
    default print queue, etc.).  It's maddening to have to re-customize
    mail *every* time I start it up!
    						Bob

152.52AXEL::FOLEYRebel without a ClueWed Feb 22 1989 01:2113
       #1  Use the latest XSETROOT.C in the DW_EXAMPLES notesfile. It
       will put up an image in the PAUSE window. Create the image with
       DECWpaint and save as X bitmap format.
       
       #2  Use CHILD to create your DECterms, etc.. This has been
       discussed profusely in this conferences. (DIR/TITLE=CHILD)
       
       #3  That's the fault of the print widget. Blame them. (But please
       note that they have been "informed" MANY times.)
       
       						mike
       

152.53VINO::VOBAThu Feb 23 1989 06:484
    Support of two-headed VAXstations.
    
    --svb

152.54DECWIN::FISHERBurns Fisher 381-1466, ZKO3-4/W23Thu Feb 23 1989 11:532
re .53:  Well, at least we have some of your requests on our list!  :-)

152.55DECSIM::KADKADECum dignitate otiumThu Feb 23 1989 13:4513
I would like to use the editor (in my case EMACS) started up in one window,
for all applications requiring the services of an editor.  So I would
start-up EMACS in one of my windows and then expect DECW$NOTES and
DECW$MAIL to attach to that window/process to allow me to send/reply/etc.
In general, it would be nice to view applications running in other windows 
as resources that can be used from other windows.

If this can be done now could somebody please tell me how.

Thanx,
Sudhir

152.56Security, etc.LEKAS::LEKASFrom the Workstation of Tony LekasTue Mar 14 1989 13:0522
The session should be, optionally, paused if there is no input for some period
of time.  This was mentioned in .39, .40, but there was some question as
to the criteria for inactivity.  Just use the same one as for the screen saver
which I believe is no input, either mouse or keyboard.

This would be a significant security enhancement.  (Although one of Fred's
requests seemed to imply that pause is not secure....)


	The REGIS interpreter is in serious need of both accuracy and
	performance work.  Try using LTM.

	My biggest complaint is the lack of settup.  This has been mentioned
	earlier by Paul Winalski and others.  The bottom line is that I
	should be able to have any application come back in the same
	"state" as I left it.  (Or as close as possible.)

	DO NOT ASK ME TO EDIT SOME FILE TO DO THIS!


		Tony

152.57Induvidual DECtermsRABBET::FARRELLMoney, there is no substitute!Tue Mar 14 1989 13:2910
I noticed (and love) the fact that the Hold Screen button is individual to each
DECterm window.  This is great, but I also noticed that the Caps Lock key is
not.

Could this be changed to be like the hold screen.

		$$$$ ted $$$$


152.58Cycle Key in FlamesPOWER::CRANDALLFinding Analog solutions to Digital proplemsThu Mar 16 1989 16:3625
    More of the wishin 
    
    <flame on>
    I've just installed SDC 5.1 VMS AND DECWINDOWS on a b/w soon to
    be color VAXstation II in a BA-123.  My initial reaction as a long-time
    VMS user (10yrs) is that if I'd wanted a Apple MacIntosh that's
    what I would have bought.  Not being able to use the CYCLE key when one
    has gotten real used to it can be a pain.  It actually breaks in
    on the routine I'm following and slows me down as I must reach for
    the mouse, find the pointer, move it the desired window, klick,
    and refind the keyboard.  Where I quite often keep the keyboard
    in by lap and the mouse on the table, this is ergonomically wasteful.
    <flame off>
    
    PLEASE GIVE US A CYCLE KEY FOR THE Terminal Windows ONLY!
    
    <flame on>
    I'm driven to use DECWINDOWS as a 3rd party software product I've
    purchased requires it!  While VWS certianly has its limitations,
    lets keep in mind those options that let EACH user determine the
    way he/she works best and then configure the system to do it his/her
    way!  If our customers can't have it THEIR WAY, they'll go elsewhere.
    <flame off>
    

152.59VWSENG::KLEINSORGEToys &#039;R&#039; UsThu Mar 16 1989 17:056
    
    Gee, when I use DECwindows I *always* use VWS terminal windows.
    And I can even shrink DECwindows to an icon :-)
    
    _Fred (Virtual DECwindows)

152.60explain yourself for lesser mortals, like those who work on all-in-1IOSG::WDAVIESWinton Davies 7-830-4188Thu Mar 16 1989 20:092
    pardon ?

152.61VWSENG::KLEINSORGEToys &#039;R&#039; UsThu Mar 16 1989 22:1114
    
    re: .60 I assume you are asking about .59 
    
    (<...those who work on all- >  what was the rest?)
    
    My flip remark referred to the fact that I use a DECwindows
    X11 Server that runs under UIS (aka VWS) most of the time
    rather than DECwindows native.  Thus, I use VWS for terminals
    and F5 works just peachy for me, and I use DECwindows for
    development and testing of some migration stuff.
    
    See 101.0 and 101.9
    

152.62revealed...LESLIE::LESLIEEgad! Iconised!Fri Mar 17 1989 00:552
    winton works on ALL-IN-1.

152.63Saved settings and security....GSRC::DIXI guess I do windows now...Tue Apr 04 1989 14:4515

	1.  To be able to save customized settings such as:
		position of DECterms
		position of applications started at logon time
		icon state of DECterms and applications
            by the session manager so you don't have to alter the
	    *.DAT files.

	2.  Have the session manager come up in a paused state.  If
	    you're having several DECterms and applications brought
	    up at login time, it would be nice to login then go
	    get some coffee knowing that your session is secure.


152.64Choice of WM and SMVINO::WITHROWRobert WithrowTue Apr 04 1989 15:184
 - An easy SUPPORTED way for a USER to have his own window manager.

 - An easy SUPPORTED way for a USER to forgoe the session manager.

152.65LESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� Leslie, CSSETue Apr 04 1989 15:303
    As with the HP Window Manager, a location indicator when you move
    windows.

152.66Pop-up, not pop-off menusULTRA::WRAYJohn Wray, Secure Systems DevelopmentTue Apr 04 1989 16:127
    A way of "fencing-in" pop-up and pull-down menues so that they stay
    on-screen.  The current behaviour is pretty user-hostile, especially as
    Murphy's law guarantees that it's always a button of the "STOP THE
    IN-PROGRESS WILDCARD DELETE" that's the one that's just out of reach
    off-screen :-) 
    

152.67Digital has it now...IO::MCCARTNEYJames T. McCartney III - DTN 381-2244 ZK02-2/N24Tue Apr 04 1989 17:1827
RE: .64

Easy way to have you own window manager:

	DEFINE/TABLE=DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES/EXEC DECW$WINMGREXE yourwindowmgr.exe

Of course, everyone gets this window manager, but since it is a single user 
workstation this is not too much of a problem. (Running the login process from 
a big system is not supported (yet?).)

Easy way to have no session manager (from systartup_v5.com):

	$ ! Starts Only the server
	$ Define DECW$IGNORE_SUBPROCESS
	$ @DECW$STARTUP SERVER
	$ ! Optionally start some window manager
	$ run/detached  some_window_manager.exe/<what_ever_it_needs>
	$ ! Start you alternate application
	$ run/detached  yourapplication.exe/<what_ever_you_need>
	
Of course you have to control you own login/logout validation at this point,
but as best I know, this is all supported. Ideal for making a dedicated 
application.	

James

152.68Single user at a time, but...VINO::WITHROWRobert WithrowTue Apr 04 1989 17:357
> Of course, everyone gets this window manager, but since it is a single user 
> workstation this is not too much of a problem.

Single user at a time, but sometimes workstations are shared between users,
and it seems goofy to require all users to use a particular WM just because
one user wants to use it...

152.69PSW::WINALSKIPaul S. WinalskiTue Apr 04 1989 22:4413
RE: .67

No, DEC doesn't have it now.

Defining executive-mode logical names requires privs, and as pointed out in .68,
the technique you outlined sets the window manager for all users, not for a
specific user.

Users should be able to choose their own window manager as a session preference
feature.

--PSW

152.70On-screen popupsKALKIN::BUTENHOFBetter Living Through Concurrency!Wed Apr 05 1989 09:067
.66: By the way, one of the many neat things about the HPWM is that it's smart
enough to keep all its popup menus completely visible.  I assume (hope) that the
OSF/Motif toolkit will inherit that as part of HP's "look and feel"... and that
"a future DECwindows based on Motif" will therefore also become rational...

	/dave

152.71Wish for speedTEXAS::ROSEWed Apr 05 1989 20:166
    I wish the pulldown menus in DECwrite on my GPX worked as fast as
    the pulldown menus in Excel on a colleague's VAXmate.
    
    (Yes, I know I should get a PVAX or PMAX to make the comparison fair
    :-)

152.72Some FileView suggestions ...ARTFUL::SCOTTLord, save me from these Mass-inine drivers!Mon Apr 17 1989 15:5633
    
    I routinely log into two mainframes using VWSLAT and start up FileViews
    on them.  I'm trying to train myself to give up terminal windows as
    much as possible.  I'd like for any FileView running in a top-level
    process with a terminal class SYS$INPUT to intercept broadcast mailbox
    messages received in an AST routine, place them into an output only
    text widget (with timestamps) and reveal that window to me when I get
    new messages on the remote system.  Ideally, this message window should
    be like the work-in-progress window--it should have a DISMISS button,
    no related icon and be recallable from the CONTROL pulldown menu.
    It would be nice if there were some accelerator for getting at the
    work-in-progress box (and, if implemented, this message box):  like,
    give focus to the FileView and strike <ALT>/W for work-in-progress or
    <ALT>/M for messages.
    
    The DELETE option in FileView bombs out when any deletion fails.  Then,
    if you try to restart it without punching UPDATE, it fails because the
    first selections have already been deleted.  This was easy enough to
    fix for myself with a custom hack on VUE$DELETE.COM, but it would be
    nice if the standard behaviour were more sensible--I assume (and hope)
    that software engineers will not be a large percentage of the users of
    this stuff.  If a deletion fails, give the user
    warning/acknowledgement window asking if she wants to continue or not.
    
    Also, it is *way* too easy to inadvertently lose a large number of file
    selections by easing up on the shift key and clicking on a file with
    MB1.  If there is more than one file selected (or if there is only one,
    but it has been scrolled off-window), before allowing the user to
    cancel the selections by selecting a new file with MB1, he should be
    given a warning/acknowledgement pop-up and a chance to back out.
    
    								-- Mikey

152.73BULOVA::FILEVIEWDECWIN::KLEINMon Apr 17 1989 16:437
re .-1

Thank you for the good suggestions.  I have cross-posted your note in the
BULOVA::FileView notes file.

-steve-

152.74LESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� Leslie, CSSE/VMS EuropeSat Apr 29 1989 12:089
    
    In an ideal world, I'd like to be able to boot up into my default
    environment - in other words have the pause screen come up immediately
    and my normal login stuff to be completed behind it.
    
    This might be acheived via a scripted login or somesuch.
    
    Just a thought for the far distant future...

152.75Why doesn't SYSALF work on WSAx:?IO::MCCARTNEYJames T. McCartney III - DTN 381-2244 ZK02-2/N24Mon May 01 1989 17:0314

Well, one would have thought that adding WSA1: to SYSALF.DAT would have had 
the desired effect (at least the autologin part) but it doesn't seem to work.

What I tried was to add "_WSA1:      USERNAME" to my SYSALF.DAT and then logged
out of the session. When DECW$LOGINOUT redisplayed the login box, I knew it did
not autologin. I then just clicked on the [OK] box and it mumbled about not 
having enough parameters.

Oh well - it was an idea anyway...

James

152.76LESLIE::LESLIEAndy ��� Leslie, CSSE/VMS EuropeMon May 01 1989 17:302
    RE: .75 YEah.... I tried that too....

152.77Winning xterm scrollbar sliderULTRA::ELLISDavid EllisWed Sep 13 1989 10:1213
I'd like to see DECwindows incorporate the scrolling slider widget from 
the latest version of xterm.

Dragging the slider up and down inside the scrollbar causes the saved text
from the terminal session to scroll up and down inside the window in real time!

This is a _BIG_ win, especially since all of the saved text slides up and 
down legibly under mouse control.

Also, it would be nice to have a user-control option to have the slider at the
left side of the window, if this is not too serious a violation of the XUI
Style Guide. 

152.78Grab Bag of wishesIOWAVS::LEESlaving away in obscurityThu May 17 1990 18:1448
General "generic" functional enhancements:
-----------------------------------------
Be able to have bookreader, mail, fileview, etc. come up as icon's, just
like you can do for the session manager. Have this feature user
Customizable.  I want to be able to modify the size of the Icon Box,
Bookreader, Mail windows and have the size and location on the screen saved
between sessions.  Want to be able to change the font size in Fileview and Mail,
just like in DECterm.


DECwindows Mail:
---------------
Have DECwindows Mail use the printer setting in MAIL.MAI by default, not
the first one in alpha order.  Also be able to save default printer AND
KEEP IT after mail is re-started.  (Now customize printer only is kept for
life of session)  I HATE THIS!  I know about the logicals, but I think that
since my preferred printer IS defined in MAIL.MAI, it should be used!
(And yes, I know others have complained about this one!)


Bookreader:
----------
Be able to search Bookreader documents for a word, phrase, etc.  Be able to
place bookmarks.  Be able to "GO BACK" as many times as I jumped to a
different place in the document. Want to be able to view my
prior navigation path so that I can remember what I was originally
doing.  (I get side tracked and forget was I was originally looking for)

Want Bookreader books filed more appropriately.  Like all VAXset info
under VAXset!   Finding some of the VMS stuff is weird.  Like why is
VMS Systems Manager's manual under "VMS and VMS DECwindows User Documents"?
How about programming languages under "Languages", Editors under "Editors",
etc.   Duplication wouldn't be bad either, since you could find books using
multiple approaches.  (Like LSE under both "Editors" and "VAXset")


MISC:
----
Want a "LN03" previewer, so I can see the contents of LN03 files in the
same way as the postscript previewer.

Regards,

Scott

P.S.  If some of these belong in other conferences - feel free...
      I understand the bookreader catagories problem has been discussed
      before, consider this yet another vote for a clean-up.
152.81That's the ticket!MSBCS::SKIFri May 18 1990 13:4815
    RE:  152.78 by IOWAVS::LEE

    Here Here!  I have the exact same wishes, so consider this another vote.

    I have one additional wish:

    To be able to invoke the Session Manager "Print Screen" command without
    having that silly Session Manager window pop up on the screen.  90% of
    the time in winds up covering part of what I need to print....damn!
    Perhaps a function key that simply changes the pointer into the
    print-screen-cross-hairs.  In other words, let's just cut to the chase
    and avoid fiddling with the Session Manager window just to get those
    cross-hairs.