Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    Well Greg,
    
    If you want to be subtle (<grin>), you can say that right now in your
    life, you're not dating women. Or you can say that you have an SO. Or,
    if you're happy to socialize with her, you can say that you're happy to
    go out with her, but she needs to understand it's as a friend, not as a
    romantic date. Or you could just tell her you like her, and you're gay,
    and you'd like to continue a friendship with her as long as that's
    understood.
    
    I would think that for most people, if the object of their affections 
    is of an inappropriate sexual orientation for them, that would be far
    less disappointing and "personal" than if the OOTA points out that
    they're ugly and unattractive and have spinach between their teeth.
    
    
    Good luck,
    Liz

Greg,

Extract the note you've just written, and print it.  

Say to her, "There's something about me you should know, but I'm having trouble
telling you. Maybe this will help explain things." And hand her the note. 

If this is too difficult for you, you can send it to her electronically, but I
think it would be friendlier and kinder to do it in person.

Bruce

    hi, Greg,
    
      Obviously, turning sideways and hoping that she'll get a clue isn't
    working.
    
      Also obvious, and tangential to sexual orientation, is the
    fact that you do not wish to date her. Heck, even if you were straight
    as a West Texas highway you might not want to date her.
    
      Most of me wants to say "Just be yourself, Greg."
    
      However, if you are uncomfortable as the object of her desires [which
    seems natural], she may be suffering a crisis in confidence and
    trashing herself image.
    
      Even if she feels foolish to have pursued a gay man, she'll probably
    _still_ feel better than having "failed" to bag a straight one.  It's
    like losing to the NCAA National Champion [sorry, I lived in Texas for
    a l-o-n-g time where football is the state religion] -- ya can't feel
    _too_ bad ...
    
      Annie

    Greg, wear your feather boa and pearls into work...that'll clue her
    in!!
    
    ;-)
    
    D!

    Greg,
    
    I had this kind of experience from the other side.
    
    One day one of the men I worked with (who I had been lusting after)
    and I ran into each other in the hall. I had been trying to think of
    a way to make it clear to him that I was interested and he said, "Hey,
    what are you doing?" and I said "Looking for men!" He said, "Me, too!"
    
    We became good friends, and I thought that was a nice way of letting
    me know.  I realize that you probably won't have this kind of
    opportunity, but I think it's better to tell people than to let them
    flounder. If you're comfortable, you could say something like, 
    "My lover and I" and she'll get the message. 
    
    	june 

    What's with all this signal business.  And when you mention, "hasn't
    she read the signals yet", aren't you encouraging sterotyping of
    the gays? which I thought the gay community were so strongly trying
    to denounce.  And, what does wearing pearls have to do with being
    a gay male.  I was under the impression that most gay males do not
    in fact cross dress.
    
    Why do you even need to tell this woman that the reason you do not
    intend to go with her is that you're gay, rather than, just plain
    saying to her that "while you're flattered, you're not available".
    
    By the way, wedding rings which are signals, do not always discourage
    admires neither for either sex.  The best approach to refuse a date is just to say
    "no thank you"!

    
    
    re: .last
    
    I think you missed the 8-)'s in D!'s note -- lighten up!
    
    I don't live a stereotypical life -- I live *MY* life.
    
    	Greg

        And, what does wearing pearls have to do with being
        a gay male.  I was under the impression that most gay males do not
        in fact cross dress.
    
    I guess ya had ta be there.
    
    D!

    
    � -< woops, wrong conference :-) >-
    
    that'll learn ya'...
    
    
    

    Try it....you might like it!!
    
    

    Is there anyone that you both know that might be able
    to mention it to her?
    
    

        Try it....you might like it!!
    
    Grrrr...
    
    I can't speak for Greg, but most gays and lesbians I know *have* tried
    it - many, many, many times.  And usually it was with great effort and
    struggle that they finally realized that they were, indeed, gay.
    
    D!

    re .10
    
    Be careful. Please.
    
    Alice T.
    (who does like it, but nevertheless...)

    Greg:
    
    Just be honest with her ... if you are open about being gay, then tell
    her you are gay.  If you are not open, just tell her that you are
    seriously involved with someone -- that should let you off the hook
    gracefully.
    
    IMHO, of course.  
    
    Tammi

    Thank You, D! and Alice, for bringing me back to reality
    
    _I_ thought Greg was being encouraged to try the boa and pearls
    
    Talk about mixed signals ... I was _seriously_ trying to make some
    sense of it.  It was giving me a pain behind my eyes.
    
    Yes, beyonod any shadow of doubt, my spool is unwinding ....
    
       Annie
        [or is it E Grace? ;^)

    I have to assume that .10 means that COOKIE::LENNARD has worn a boa and
    pearls to work.  (After all, if _he_ hadn't tried it, would he
    recommend it?)
    
    (CXO'ers note: I'd pay well for photos, if it's true!:-))

    I dont think you have to say anything about your sexuality, tell
    her you  preffer not to date woman that you work with and im sure 
    sooner or later youll get to know her well enough to tell her ...
    That is if YOU want to    ... 
    
    
         good luck and think about how well you now this person 
    before you go telling her anything about your business... 
    besides  , you dont know how she'll react.
    
    J

    
    
    >	       Annie
    >    [or is it E Grace? ;^)
    
    
    ahem.
    
    E "no I'm not Annie" Grace
    
    P.S. - Greg, from what I know of you, I don't blame the woman!  
    
    

    
    
    Well, it kinds of seems that the problem "solved itself" in that the
    person, unknown to me, is a reader of this conference.  I forgot (silly
    me) that not everyone is as mouthy in notes as I am and that there are
    people who are truly read-only.
    
    I think we'll come out of this "friends", but she feels pretty hurt and
    somewhat humiliated (her words, not mine).  
    
    Time to heal, on both sides, is what will patch things up -- I hope.
    
    	Greg -- who feels kind of silly for bringing this issue into the
                public forum of =wn=
    
    

    Greg,
    
    I'm sorry you feel silly.  You asked trusted friends (this community)
    for help in dealing with a problem.  Your help came in a form you
    didn't expect, in that the person in question read about the problem
    here -- but we love you, Greg, and we are honored that you came to us.
    
    To Greg's woman acquaintance:
    
    As I'm sorry Greg feel silly, I'm saddened that you feel humiliated.
    You ran into something you weren't prepared to handle.  Your experience
    hadn't given you the keys to understanding the situation, but that's
    part of being human.  You've gained experience at little cost -- I hope
    that you can accept your feelings for both Greg and yourself.
    
    Hang in there, both of you.  Hugs.
    
    -d

>    Well, it kinds of seems that the problem "solved itself" in that the
>    person, unknown to me, is a reader of this conference.

 Sounds like a "what good news, what bad news" situation.

>    I think we'll come out of this "friends", but she feels pretty hurt and
>    somewhat humiliated (her words, not mine).  

 Well, one thing that she can take solace in is that you and she are the only
ones that know who she is, and if she found you worthy of amorous attention,
perhaps she will grow to feel less embarrassed about the whole situation to
the point where she can laugh about this situation at a later time. Trying
to put myself in her shoes, I can certainly understand where she's coming
from.

 The Doctah

hugs to you, womanfriend 

I've been in something of the same position, from
both sides; not with a difference in orientation, but have been both the object
and the objectee (is there such a word) of disconcerting attraction.  Swallow
hard, look for the humor.  You've done nothing wrong, only felt silly for a 
bit.  We've all been there.

Sara

This is interesting. The situation here has been resolved but it reminded me of
past times. This situation was not the same but there used to women who sought
out gay men. They were refered to, in the slang term, as "fag hags". I don't
know what specific reasons these women had for pursuing these men but some were
quite persistant. liesl

    
    
    "Fag Hag" is usually a term used (with negative connotations) for a
    woman who prefers the company of gay men -- with no sexual overtones.
    Sometimes these are woman who "feel safe" in that type of company
    because they really are free from the sexual overtures that they might
    feel in the company of straight men.
    
    There are also woman who feel that if she can "force" a gay man to have
    sex with her that she can "convert him" -- that he only needs to have
    one "good experience" with a woman to make him realize the error of his
    ways.  These woman aren't "fag hags".  I, rather, would refer to them
    as slightly foolish.
    
    	Greg

    There are also woman who feel that if she can "force" a gay man to have
    sex with her that she can "convert him" -- that he only needs to have
    one "good experience" with a woman to make him realize the error of his
    ways.  These woman aren't "fag hags".  I, rather, would refer to them
    as slightly foolish.

Greg, there are also other types of women who are attracted to gay
men, for less negative reasons than a desire to convert them.

I used to be one - I had crush after crush on men I knew to be gay.
I realized later that it was misdirected Lesbianism - I knew there
was *something* attractive about gay-ness, and since I was *straight*
(ha ha) it must be that I was attracted to gay *men*.  :-)

And then there is a certain attitude, look etc that is common among
gay men - the thing that sets off gay-dar - just as there is among
lesbians.  I find that "something" in Lesbians attractive, which is
good, since I am one.  I know some men who find that "something" in 
Lesbians attractive to - they lead frustrated lives. I also know women
who find that "something" attractive in gay men - again, rather
frustrating.

D!

    
    
    D! -- Absolutely -- no offense intended!!!!  I was looking at the
    situation rather one-sidely.
    
    	GJD -- who's out-o-here for the week!