Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
    Not me. One nipper is quite enough..
    

    re .1
    
    I'm with you.  One is enough for me.  I love him, but I don't want
    more!
    
    The thought gives me shudders...........    8^}

    I got as far as two.  Love 'em both, but babies, though they feel and
    smell soooo nice when they're real little, I like to give them back.
    
    Hey, I have my legs back -- I'm not giving them up voluntarily again!
    
    :-)
    
    Sara
    
    
    (p.s. but #2 got started due to 'baby hunger' when #1 was 13 months
    old...)

    
    I'll love to have another one...but not untill my 1 yr old is at least
    3. I hate the thought's of 2 in diapers!
    
    
    Sandy

Re: .4

It's not necessary to wait until your first is 3 before starting a
second, if you really want the second "now".

Our daughter is 18 months older than her brother.  About a month before
he was due, we explained to her that she was going to have a new baby
brother or sister soon, and because the new baby would need the diapers
she had to learn to use the toilet now.  She was completely trained
before the baby was born.

This wouldn't work with paper diapers, of course, but the thought of
using paper diapers was utterly abhorrent to us.  It is also less likely
to work if the first one is a boy; we're slow about that sort of thing.
:-)

-d

	Well, it all depends on your preference for how long you can cope
	with pre-school age kids.

	My mother had 4 of us, all 18 months apart, so when one was
	4.5, another was 3, another 1.5, and the other was just coming into the
	world.

	My mum has said she planned it this way, because even though it would be
	a strain for the first 5 years, she could put up with it, she didn't 
	want the pre-school age to last any longer than it had to.

	Heather

From the point of veiw of the youngest of 5, the closest one to my age is 7+
years older than me, I would say it doesn't sound like a good idea. I always
felt left out, like an afterthought. On the plus side, I had a lot of material
thing my parents couldn't afford for the older kids, on the minus side, I got
alot less of their time and energy. 

I guess it really depends on your parenting skills...do you have the time
and energy to devote to a baby...the same amount that you had for your older
child (children?) How would the older child feel? I think it would be a really
good idea to get their input.

dee

    A couple I am friends with had their second child 13 years after their
    first!  The parents are adjusted quite well; they wanted this very
    much.  The older daughter has gone through some changes, but she seems
    to be adjusting well now.  The baby is a year old.  
    
    For sure, look closely at the finances including funding college for
    both kids, daycare for the baby (if necessary), and retirement
    planning.  
    
    Don't expect too much from the older child.  He/she is entering
    adolescence and wants more independence, not to be saddled with
    responsibility for babysitting or other new chores.  On the other hand,
    it may be a good corrective if the older child is a bit spoiled.
    
    Also, consider the parents' ages.  How old will you be when your child
    finishes high school?  When will you be able to retire?  What other
    plans are important to you in life?  I just had my first child at age
    39 and I am very happy with my decision.  
    
    Good luck!
    Laura
    

    My two are 11 1/2 years apart.  One is a senior in HS, the other
    starting kindergarten this year.  This does tend to run in my family. 
    Brother and I 14 years apart, mother and her sister 12 years apart,
    brothers sons are 12 years apart.  
    
    While there are a few problems between my two.  (Youngest one always
    wants to go on big sisters outings, and wants to do things entirely to
    old for her),I have gotten to enjoy them both, and each one has gotten
    a great deal more individual mommy time   than if I had had them in the
    normal two- four years apart.  I also didn't get hit with braces,
    college, driving, etc. within two years of each other.
    
    Meg

 My daughter is 16 years younger than her closest sibling.

    Hi, I have three "adorable" children.... My son will be 20 in december
    and my oldest daughter 18 in November and my "baby" will be 8 in
    September.  Second marriage.... need I say more?  Gee, wouldn't it be
    nice to have another baby?  My husband didn't have children and we
    thought this would be the thing to do!  My son was 12 when I had my
    daughter Kerri and I thought that my being pregnant would "embarrass
    him", but he was really great about it.  My middle daughter was a
    little bit more jealous of the baby, but now, they are great with her.
    
    It has been like having only one child for the past 2-3 years.  The
    older kids are off doing their own stuff, so sometimes I feel bad for
    Kerri that she doesn't have someone to play with (or fight with! Gee
    really miss that!)  So I end up importing other people's kids to come
    over and play so it all works out in the end.  Regrets?  None.  I would
    not change anything.  I'm so glad that I had her...  I think that by
    having her (I was 31) later, I was really ready (and experienced) and
    actually have alot of patience with her.  
    
                          nancy
       

    When I was born, my parents were in their 40's, and my siblings ranged
    in age from 10 - 17.
    
    sigh.  I for one would rather they had not had me.
    
    E Grace

    well my point of view is different, E, and I for one am GLAD THEY DID!

 Ditto! If they didn't, it would be a net loss.

    Without you E, creation would be much the poorer.
    
    PJ

    I should have written "it would have been kinder if they had not had
    me."  My point was this: it seems to me that all the people I hear
    talking about waiting to have a child until they are older, more
    financially secure (hah!), more blah blah blah, are thinking only of
    themselves.  I have never heard *one* of them say, "gee, if we wait,
    this child is going to face the very real possiblitity of us being dead
    or incapacitated when s/he is only in hir 30's or 40's.  That might not
    be fair to hir." *
    
    As far as there being a loss to the world if I had never been born,
    well I just don't have that kind of ego.  I have a large ego, just not
    that kind.  My sweetie and I had an argument about this last night,
    after *he* saw the note.  I say if I had never been born, my space
    would have been filled by someone else, and no one would have missed
    me, because no one would have known that I should be there.
    
    E Grace
    
    
    * I'm sure that now *someone* in here will spout that that is *exactly*
    what they said.
                        

    E,
    
      As I said to you earlier...I truly believe if you had never been
    born, I *would* miss you....I would have a large hole in my life.  I
    might not know *what* was missing, but rest assured, I'd know
    *something* was.
    
    bright blessings,
    -HA (Who is proud and honored to know E)

    Re .16: Well, having a child at any time "might not be fair to hir";
    life is just full of surprises. As to whether the put-it-off parents
    are thinking only of themselves, I suppose only they know that. Maybe
    they're thinking that they wouldn't want to be parented by
    themselves-at-age-20-something, and are hoping they'll be more patient
    and caring by the time they do decide to have kids.
    
    As for incapacitation, is it better to provide your child with elderly
    or incapacitated parents at age 30-40, or at age 60-70, when the
    "child" might have his/her own problems? And which point of view is
    less selfish? Sure, maybe the 60-year-old won't have to spend as long
    looking after elderly parents, but s/he won't have as much energy to do
    so, either...
    
    Sorry if I seem to be harping. And I am _very_ sorry for all who feel
    that their parents made choices that gave them a less enjoyable or
    worthwhile childhood than they might have had. It's just that, with all
    the variables there are, I don't see choosing to wait to have children
    as a particularly bad idea.
    
    -b [who's still waiting ;-)]

    re .16, E Grace, I had older parents, too, so I know what you mean,
    although I *am* glad I was born, I still think there would have been
    more benefits in having younger parents than there were in having older
    parents.  (My parents never got more financially secure either - just
    older and still poor.  It happens that way sometimes.)
    
    In spite of it all, though, I'm still glad I was born regardless of
    whether anyone else would me or not.  *I* would miss me.  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

>I have never heard *one* of them say, "gee, if we wait,
>    this child is going to face the very real possiblitity of us being dead
>    or incapacitated when s/he is only in hir 30's or 40's.  That might not
>    be fair to hir." *

 Is it fairer to have an adult child face such a possibility or is it fairer
for a child to have parents which are not as mature during the formative
years?

>I say if I had never been born, my space
>    would have been filled by someone else, and no one would have missed
>    me, because no one would have known that I should be there.

 I don't think the space you have carved for yourself would have been filled
by someone else at all. It may have just been null.

 Obviously if you had never existed, no one would know what they would be 
missing. Perhaps there is an even more wonderful person that simply never
existed, so we don't miss hir. :-) However, the fact remains that you were
born and your perceived worth is significant enough to cause people to
recognize the tangible loss that would result from your not being around, 
as the many notes attesting to this fact indicate.

 The Doctah

    
    To pick up on a point in .18:
    
    Really, no one lives a "normal" life.  Either their parents
    were too young when they had them - or too old.  Too poor,
    too rich.  They were the only child.  They were one of eight.
    They were the youngest or oldest of a large family.  They
    were born 18 years behind the last one.  They were 14 before
    their parents had any more.  Bah.
    
    I have finally come to the conclusion that *none* of us grew
    up "normal"!
    
    If your parents wanted and loved you and you were not abused,
    then you've got it made, no matter what age they were when they
    had you, and no matter how poor or rich they were or where you
    fell in the family lineup.
    
    And really, if I sat there thinking about the fact that if I were
    to have a baby at age 40, that I'd be 70 and maybe dead when that
    child were 30, I'd really expect them not to need a "mommy" or
    "daddy" at that age, or else I'd done something terribly wrong in
    the way I raised them.
    

E, I hear what you are saying, and I cannot and will not argue with the pain you
have had to live with, live through, in your family.  There is so much in this
world that is sad, yet hope and love stubbornly grow, refuse to die, continue
to give.  It is true that if I did not know you, it is not *you* that I would
miss.  But I do know that there is a need, a place, in which you fit; a way
that you give without trying to; a comfort that is there just in knowing you.
I am sorry for your pain and grief, and hope that for you there is more than
only that; and I am glad you are here.

So basenoter, should you have another baby?  Yes, if you and yours want one,
have love to give.  Just as so many answers to the May-December noter's question
have been Yes.  We know there is pain in life.  Embrace joy, and give it.

as cheyenne says, with love.

Sara

    RE: .22  Sara
    
    > So basenoter, should you have another baby?  Yes, if you and yours want 
    > one, have love to give.  Just as so many answers to the May-December 
    > noter's question have been Yes.  We know there is pain in life.  
    > Embrace joy, and give it.
    
    Agreed!
    
    No child is born with a guarantee of living, healthy parents - my own
    niece was only 2 1/2 years old when her 33 year old Mother died.  I know
    another young girl whose Father died before she was born (before he ever
    had the chance to know he was going to be a first-time Father.)
    
    Tragic, true - but it's a chance every child is born facing.
    
    If you want a child and have the love to give - just say "yes" to the
    opportunity to give someone else LIFE.  It won't be without risk, but
    it never is.

    
    My parents had my brother, then 10� years later had me, then eighteen
    months later had my sister.  Consequently my sister and I grew up quite
    close, with all the usual laughs/fights, but were both rather detached
    from my brother, who was in his teens and not really interested in
    keeping little girls amused by the time we were toddling.
    
    We've grown closer as we've got older though.  Also, as my mother was
    only 17 when she had my brother, neither of my parents are "too old". 
    I think it worked well for them :-)
    
    Sam
    

    There will be seven years between my first and second (when it is born).
    
    There is not an "ideal" gap - both large and small gaps have pro's and 
    con's.
    
    Also everyone's circumstances are different.  I waited because I couldn't 
    afford another baby (and by that I don't mean I wanted a new swimming
    pool!) any sooner but maybe if my financial position had been better the 
    gap would have been smaller and maybe if I was not a working mother I 
    could have coped with a smaller gap. 
    
    So you just have to do what's best for you at the time and not let
    people talk you into or out of having another whenever.
    
    I was one of a big family with an average of 1.5 yrs gap between us.
    My closest friend was one of two siblings with an 8.5 yr gap.  I had lots 
    of sisters and she had none, I had friends "on tap" while she had to go 
    look for them, I had children to share in my excitement she didn't.  
    
    But then... she got lots more attention than me,  she was spoiled rotten 
    by big brother who was earning while she was still at high school, she 
    had more material things (clothes etc.) than I had and most of all she
    had privacy - not much of that around our house.
    
    Yet believe it or not we have both survived and turned out reasonably
    Normal people leading reasonably happy lives.  
    
    So does the GAP measurement really matter??
    
    
    
    
    
     

    I was 13, my brother 10 (Bob), when my younger brother (Jim) was born.
    
    My parents say it has kept them young.  My brother and I TOTALLY adored
    that new little one and we still do.  He is a little of all of us. 
    When we were young we taught him EVERYTHING we knew good and bad.  He
    made us laugh....and he still does.  I am glad my parents had him.
    
    My Brother Bob and his wife *had* 2 children 12 and 10 when they just
    had Mikey!  My Brother and sister-in-law are both 43.  And it seems
    like his brother and sister are doing what we did many years ago! 
    Maybe time does repeat! (BTW-Mikey is 15 mths old and a little terror,
    why?  Because he is learning all the good and bad too!)
    
    I have never had the chance to have children.  All the right plumbing
    but it just didn't work.......so I am prejudiced in saying this....
    IF YOU WANT ONE HAVE IT!  Children are MOST precious!
    
    And.....in our family it seems like late in life children are SO much
    fun!
    
    
    Jackie
    
    

    
    
    	I'm usually a read-only noter, but I just had to reply!
    
    	I was born when my parents were 41 and 44.  My sisters and brothers
    	were between 11 and 18.  I have had the best of both worlds - being
    	like an only child, but having the best brothers and sisters.  My
    	siblings tell me that there was NEVER any jealousy when I was born,
    	in fact, they were thrilled!  My sister (who is 11 years older than
    	I am ) and I are best friends, and I am very close to all the others.
    
    	My parents also say that I have kept them young, and they wouldn't
    	have done ANYTHING differently!  My mother and her sister are 10
    	years apart; my sister's daughters will be 12 years apart!  It
    	seems to be a family tradition.  And I am finding that it is not
    	all the uncommon.  I know MANY people now who are the younger
    	sibling by many years of who have siblings much younger. 
    
    
    	As someone else said, there is no guarantee when it comes to the
    	death of your parents.  My husband was only 14 when his mother
    	died, and his little sister was 7.  It's hard to watch your parents
    	get older and slow down, but I can only be thankful that I 
    	have had my terrific parents around as long as I have, and hope
    	that they continute to live (in great health) for a long, long time to 
    	come!
    
     	So I guess my personal opinion is that it's a *GREAT* idea! 
    
    	- Justine (another one!)	     

My parents were 41 and 48 when I was born. My brothers were 9 and
18, so for much of my childhood, I was the only kid at home.

I think my parents were mellower with me than with my brothers.... 
There were times I wished they had been younger when they had me,
but that's a little like wishing I was born with blond hair. Some
things just are, and wishing for them to be different is an exercise
in imagination, but that's about it. 
     
My mother died from cancer at 57; I was sixteen. Losing my mother was
very traumatic, but she could just as easily have had me at age 30 and
gotten cancer at age 40. My father died when I was 29. Dad's health
problems had a lot to do with the way he lived his life....

Now I'm "pushing forty" and I see many of my friends and co-workers
dealing with aging parents. I know what's ahead of them. I know the
types of decisions they're going to have to make. I know how hard it
is to care for an aging parent. I know how difficult it is to walk a
parent into a nursing home. I know the sadness of having a parent die.
Quite frankly, there is a certain relief in knowing that I don't have
to do that again. I'm done.

There are difficult times in life and very few of us escape them. If
you're in your forties and want a child, I say go for it. Be there for them,
and love them, and fill your home with life.

And if it helps, remember, there is a baby boom of sorts going on among
fortyish women, and there is comfort in company (both for the parents
and for the children).

Kathy

    re.28
    Very touching note!