Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    >What does the person get out of the style they adopt?
    
    
         Exactly what they deserve.
    
    
    
                                         L.J.

    >Close knit group.....
    
    
              a.k.a. a clique?
    
    
    HRH

    I don't think that a group that has knitted a fabric from bits of
    concern, fun and conflict is necessarily a clique.  I do believe that
    all are welcome to add their fabric.  Mainly we just ask that they do
    it without shredding someone else's fabric.
    
    E Grace

    Well, the "new bits of fabric" are still on the outside, 
    looking in, rather than being accepted into the middle 
    of the design.  Not just here in =wn=, tho', but in many of
    the other notesfiles, too...
    
    HRH

    HRH,
    
    I think you have said you are coming to the party for David Wales.  I
    hope you do.  I found it was so much easier for me to understand notes
    that were written by someone whose speaking voice I had heard.  I used
    to think that the people in this file just thought of me as some little
    bit of fluff, good for writing hugs and little else.  I found that was
    not true when I met people in the flesh.  
    
    Oh, I'm sure there *are* some people who think that of me.  No one will
    like or respect everyone.  I just think it becomes easier when we see
    each other.  We are, after all, more attuned to nuances in body
    language and vocal intonation then we are to the written word.  At
    least, I beieve that to be so.
    
    I know that many of us will never have a chance to meet another noter,
    and that we should really find a way to communicate more clearly and
    calmly with the written word.  But as has been stated in here many
    times, electronic communication is *still* a difficult means of
    communicating.
    
    I don't know if this addressed the issues of which you spoke or not; I
    hope it did.
    
    E Grace

        We are, after all, more attuned to nuances in body
        language and vocal intonation then we are to the written word.  At
        least, I beieve that to be so.
    
    Yes, according to a class I took called "How to Listen Powerfully",
    only 7% of the communication between two people while talking is in the
    actual content of the words.  Some 35% is in tone, and the remainder in
    body and facial language.
    
    Not sure how they arrived at those statistics, but it jibes with my own
    observations.
    
    I think the feeling of cliqueiness/agendas/whatever might come from the
    fact that those of us who've met eachother and hang out together
    understand eachother better.  It's much harder to flame someone you
    just had dinner with.
    
    D!

    E-
    
    No, your .5 isn't what I am talking about....
    But it is a good point....to be judged by the way
    you enter a message, i.e. misspelled words, lack
    of punctuation, your opinions...is another can of
    worms...
    
    I know many read-only noters are R-O because of the
    cliquey <= (is there such a word?) atmosphere, and
    the feeling that they are not welcome, or are made to
    feel that they don't belong, and are being firmly forced
    out of that particular notesfile.  Rather than there being
    an "open arms"/"come on in, the water's fine" in here and
    other notesfiles, people are given the "closed door in the
    face" impression. 
    
    BTW, you were one of the few who took the time to send me
    a personal welcome....if that's the kind of fluff you are
    made of, I hope it increases 100 fold! (-;
    
    HRH
    

    well my fabric has velcro sewn on, it sticks to whatever it touches.
    
    I have felt in the past that 'mainstream feminism', mainly as portrayed
    and/or projected in the mass media, has IN PART ignored my needs, and
    disdained some of my choices, while exalting others of my choices.
    
    Part of why I'm here (in =wn=, and in life) is to make the range of
    choices available to me, and to all women, and to all people, wider. 
    To make them as wide as possible.
    
    I don't agree with everyone in =wn=.  I don't even like everyone in
    =wn=.  But I try, not always with complete success, to be open to most
    all views and opinions, and not to slap someone down merely for
    disagreeing with me.  They've gotten to where they are by their own
    path, not mine.
    
    Sara

    HRH
    
    4 1/2 years ago, before the first =wn= party, few of us knew
    each other. As the years have gone by, and more and more =wn=
    have had a chance to meet and socialize and party together,
    friendships have grown up. This is a normal and natural occurance.
    New noters who go to parties come away as with friends. So I'd
    encourage anyone who can do so, to make some of the social events,
    they really contribute to a sense of belonging and of understanding
    the other noters.
    
    It is true that there are some very out spoken women who have been
    writing in the file for a long time. A new noter who writes in
    a fashion that an articulate noter disagrees with can be quite
    startled by the response. Especially since women do not normally
    argue quite so vigorously.
    
    There are various methods developed by the file moderators to
    make things easier for those who want to write but have a problem
    with argressive replies. Two of these are the Sensitive Replies
    Only notes and anonymous postings.
    
    I'd strongly encourage someone who is nervous about expressing
    a dissenting opinion to use either of the above methods.
    
    There is no file party line. Particular points of view many dominate
    the file because women/men who hold those points of view write here. Other
    points of view are neglected because women/men who hold them don't write
    here. It is really the responsibility of the individual to be sure that
    their thoughts are expressed, if they are complaining that their point
    of view is not represented.
    
    Bonnie

    Well, 
      I first came here because 'Ren and Bonnie were here...and they
    were very cool.  'Ren for now is gone.  Bonnie got displeased with
    some things that I posted.  I think she thought I wasn't being
    constructive. Kinda puts a damper on my original reasons.
    
    For now..there are some great thoughts, and some good minds out there.
    I guess I like to note with them.
    
    Several enforce some of the concepts my Mom used to have for me.
    That feels good.  However, I wish Mom and you guys included would
    get off of the spelling kick.  You know what I mean (at least most
    of the time), why nit pick?  It is kind of like judging someone
    on the basis of their appearance.  Not that some of you don't
    (If I can take some of the fat digs seriously), that doesn't make
    it cool.[But I digress..]
    
    In short, there is good stuff, from women who have gone through
    the gamut of things before, that I can learn from.
    I like that.
    
    Cindi
    
    

    Hi Cindi,
    
    I'm awfully glad you stayed.
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

    I, personally, don't know what anyone means by an "agenda" - maybe it's
    an American way of saying something?
    
    Alice T.

    My agenda here are numerous, an ever expanding and contracting list;
    but they all seem to boil down to a couple of very simple ageda:
    
     1 - I want women to determine the course of their own lives. I believe
         that women have the intelligence, the strength and the commitment
         to choose for themselves within the context of their selves, their
         lives, their loved ones.
    
     2 - I want women's choices to respected -- by other women, by men, by
    	 their parents and children.  This respect does not betoken
    	 approval or partisanship, but respects that woman have the
         intelligence ... [see above]
    
    My motives for participating here are also numerous.  For all the heat
    and fireworks that frequently ensue, I feel that here is a place that I
    have _less_ need to explain myself.  Although there are many kinds of
    women, there appears to be a common thread that carries across cultures
    and economic boundaries.  I like that.
    
    I meet many interesting people here.  I enjoy interesting people, even
    those with whom I disagree.
    
    I find out about _so_ many things here that give me outlets or pathways
    to meeting my agenda.  That's wonderful, because sometimes the search
    is hard.
    
    But then I also find sadnesss here.  I often feel invisible [as a
    woman, not as a moderator].  I feel that my voice is one that is not
    often heard.  I feel that I shall remain the perpetual outsider here in
    =wn= ... a dull and boring mezzo in a choir of soaring voices.
    
    I highly recommend meeting =wn=ers in person.  I don't feel invisible
    when I'm with =wn=ers in the flesh -- I didn't even feel invisible when
    I attended my first gathering, walking all alone into a room full of
    ~40 women I'd never laid eyes on!
    
    I cannot say for sure, but venture to guess that many here who have met
    me find me to a bit more animated than my noting persona.  [At least
    they don't yawn in my presence ... can't say what happens on the drive
    home ... maybe they yawm then]
    
      Annie

    Annie!  A dull and boring mezzo?!  No one with a straw up their nose,
    who needs to be scraped of the wall of their cube when the phone rings,
    could *ever* be considered dull and boring!
    
    Besides, you're so huggable!
    
    E Grace

    Sorry, Annie.  I realized that that last reply sort of dimunitized you
    in a way that I know *I* hate.  You are also smart, interesting,
    intriguing, witty and tough.

    E Grace

    Ahhhh E, but the picture it painted was priceless!  ;-) ;-)
    
    (with absolutely *no* intention of making Annie feel badly or
     annoyed with me!)
    
    -HA

    no, E, I didn't feel diminished.
    
    but I _was_ going to respond that I have a Puffalump who's very
    huggable, but it doesn't have much to say for itself ...
    
      Annie

    Bonnie...
      Actually...
        Me too....
    
    .....
    
    Uh oh...
       ...I had better stop now...
          I feel a hug type thing comming on...
    
    and that is not like me.
    
    Deep Like,
    Cindi

    Hugs Cindi
    
    one of these days I'm going to have to actually meet you!
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

        Hugs Cindi
    
        one of these days I'm going to have to actually meet you!
    
    let me tell ya, I was sure shocked as all get-out.
    
    Mrs. Bates is NOTHING like her noting persona...
    
    D!

    Re .21-
    
    ;-> ;-> ;->-----
    
    Mrs. Bates can not answer you now.
       Although by some possibly cosmic coincidence...
    
    Mr. Prosper Alvin Bates is here in my cube today....
    
    He is not, however, allowed to read DEC notes files, I forbid it,
    even over the shoulder... so he can not tell me it is ok.
    
    ;-> ;-> ;->-----
    ;-> ;-> ;->-----
    ;-> ;-> ;->-----
    
    THAT was DEFINATELY coolness.
    
    Deep deep like,
    But still repressed,
    Cindi

    Now, now, Cindi, one shouldn't repress these urges!  It just isn't
    healthy!  Why not just let out a little one?  It's easy, and it really
    won't hurt.
    
    
    E Grace

    Correction....
    Mr. Prosper Alan Bates Esq. ( Solicitor )
    
    signed...
    
    Mrs. Bates

    In case you all are confused about the Bates stuff...well, never mind,
    it's not worth it to explain.
    
    D!

    Re .23---
    
    Well...
     ok...
       maybe not hugs quite...
    I mean... I married ERB-M for his hugging abilities.
    
    But... 
     lots and lots of warm, fuzzy, pleasant, comforting feelings...
    
    That is as close as I go.
    ...but I am not a tease...
    
    Really!
    
    DEFINITE deep deep like,
    Cindi