Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I don't think the issue is whether it is "deviant" or not, but how it
    makes you feel.  Who cares whether other men do it, or whether other
    men don't do it - if it is bugging you, then it's an issue.
    
    Have you talked to him about it?  Have you expressed your discomfort?
    It may be that the nightly purusal of pornography was a habit he got in
    to while single and he never saw a reason to get out of it. Perhaps he
    doesn't *need* it but doesn't know it bugs you.
    
    I don't mind pornography; in fact, I like it.  However, I would be more
    than a little miffed if my partner required pornography to become
    aroused during intimate moments with *me*.
    
    Pornography shared between two (or more) partners can be a great erotic
    activity.  Pornography alone can be a great erotic activity. 
    But when one person is enjoying the pornography, and the other is made
    uncomfortable by it, then it isn't *shared*.
    
    You have a right to your feelings, and your husband has a right to his
    - if there is a conflict, you should talk it out with him and sort out
    how strongly each of you feels about it, and see if you can work out a
    compromise.
    
    I must say, if you have expressed distaste for his skin mags, and he
    still buys and reads them with you around, that seems pretty tacky.
    Also, if he *needs* to read it *every* night, then it sound perilously
    close to an addiction.
    
    D!
    
    [PS: Just as an aside - have you ever suggested making the porno thing
    a mutual activity?  Like, perhaps finding some that you both enjoy, and
    looking at pictures together or watching videos or reading together? 
    Just a thought.]

    A few thots.  I can only speak for myself, but, That behavior does not
    sound very considerate.  I also like porn on occassion.  The stuff you
    describe sounds like the type to be enjoyed while alone.  What I really
    like is to be able to share it.  Reading together or to one another is
    the best if both are interested.  I must say, though, that I have never
    needed help in getting interested in my partner.  For me, if my SO is
    not more exciting than that, WE have a problem.
    
    my $0.02
    jimc
    

    Well, none of my SO's have ever tried to read porn magazines while in
    bed with me.  (Wise behavior on their part, I must say!)  To be honest,
    I wouldn't stand for it.  To me, looking at porn is something that
    people do when they can't get a real person to be with.  I understand
    that some people, as D! said, enjoy sharing porn and if they both (or
    all) receive mutual pleasure from that, then that's their business. 
    But, although I don't believe in trying to censure non-violent porn, I
    don't really enjoy it either, and I would be very offended if my
    husband or boyfriend wanted to look at it when it was in bed with me. 
    I guess my attitude would be....well, I guess I'm not enough for
    you...you'd rather look at a *picture* of somebody else than actually
    have sex with *me*....so, so long jerk, I'm gonna go find me somebody
    who'd rather have me than a magazine!
    
    I'm not suggesting you should say that to your SO, but I can certainly
    understand that it bothers you, and since it does bother you, I think
    it's wrong for him to do it.  I hope you can work something out.  Good
    luck.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    -1 , The basenoter did state that they never get intimate until
    he brouses thru his favorite issues....
    
       I don't think this is normal, at least not to me.   I think
    using skin mags or vcr tapes once in a while is o.k. but to rely
    on it is not normal. I also think it's in poor taste for him to
    do this frequently.
    
    Jack
    

    It is a "men-type thing", but pretty unhealthy. Basically, the libido
    gets primed on "Playboy" and "Penthouse" from an early age, but since
    those mags (with their airbrushed solitary naked models) have almost
    nothing to do with real sex (or even with active sexual fantasy), real
    sex becomes problematic. 
    
    "Deviant" is a word I avoid (except inasmuch as it's the name of one of
    my favorite neighborhood stores), but it sounds like sorry behavior to
    me too. 
    
    Given the number of times I've heard about it, I'd imagine this is the
    most common type of "porn addiction". 
    
    Ray

    re:.1
    
       I agree.  Go find something you like together.  Go into an adult
    bookstore to find it.  Everyone is there for the same reason so you
    don't need to be embarrassed about it.
    
       Now the following is a tit for tat thing which I wouldn't recommend,
    but will say it anyway.
       If he won't give it up and you don't like the idea of looking at
    porn with him I'd buy a playgirl and keep it buy my bed.  I'd be
    perousing it before we became intimate to see how he like it.  Catty?
    Very, and childish too, but I'm sometimes horrible that way!  ;^)
    
    
    
                                        L.J.

    Why not get some of your own and browse through them.  And when he's
    ready to turn out the light, say "wait a minute".  Then make him wait.  
    And flip the pages.  And make him wait some more.  
    
    Talking to men about this generally results in just the standard
    excuses.  Because of a male sense of entitlement, it will get you nowhere. 
    He believes it's his right and so there's probably something wrong with 
    *you*!  So make him feel the feeling and that might motivate him to the 
    negotiating table.  I hear Jody's got a nice book...  ;^>
    
    Sandy

    Hi
    
    it seems inconsiderate, immature behaviour to me.
    
    what is this guy like in everyday life ?
    
    dave d

    
    Pam,
    
    I think that I would be very upset by your husband's behavior.
    I, too, can understand enjoying soft porn once in a while but
    ANYTHING that you must do everyday, is an addiction in my book.
    I drink 1 cup of coffee a day and that makes me addicted.  
    
    However, this is a really tough thing to even discuss much less
    change.  Talking about sex is difficult enough, especially if
    one is made to feel insecure about it.  But I really think you
    need to ask your husband why he can't have sex with you without
    looking at a magazine first.  That's the real issue here, I think.
    It's a direct question and likely to cause him to become defensive,
    so maybe you'd want to rephrase it but it's a question that needs
    an answer.  Good luck and I hope you can resolve this, if only
    for yourself.
    
    Rachael

Pam,

I'm made very uncomfortable by the behavior you describe.  I won't call
it deviant, but it is something I'd consider a problem in your marriage.

It seems to me that there is not a clear communication of needs, either
yours or his.  It doesn't have to happen, but sex with the same partner
night after night after night (even if you don't do it *every* night)
can become a boring drag if one lets it.  The novelty wears off, and so
on...  The old aphorism applies:  "Familiarity breeds contempt."  But,
as I say, it does *not* have to happen that way.

Talk to him.  A lot.  Explore together your mutual needs.  Expect to
make allowances and changes, and make sure he expects the same.  You
can almost rely on the discussion's getting angry -- there is hurt and
confusion somewhere in there.  If he loves you, he will work together
with you to better the life you share.

Good luck.  And, as Abby so often says, we'd like to know how you're
doing.

-d

    Pam -
    
    I'd share the opinion that there is an issue here that needs to be
    raised and discussed.  Playboy, Penthouse, etc aren't in themselves
    bad.  Some of them have made for good fantasies for me in the distant
    past, don't know what they did for my husband.
    
    However, it has been my experience that it is best *not* to have
    conversations about what bothers you in your sex life in the bedroom! 
    Personally, I'd try to bring it up over the supper table, or better yet
    on a weekend morning when there isn't anything else planned.  Try,
    hard, to send "I messages".  For example "When you read Playboy every
    night before we go to bed, I feel that I don't turn you on.  I worry
    that you don't really love me."  (I've rewritten that quote about four
    times, by the way.  You'll have to figure out the best phrasing to open
    the conversation.)
    
    You aren't likely to resolve the problem in one conversation.  There's
    probably going to be lots of denial, resistence, and denigration of
    your feelings.  Expect it, and feed back to him stuff along the lines
    of "I heard you say......" to make sure you understood him.
    
    Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
    
    Alison

    I agree with A and W... Penthouse and Playboy are not all that bad...
    Maybe he is just reading the articles......
    
    REK

    This reminds me of a scene in one of Woody Allen's movies, Annie Hall I
    think, where in a flashback sequence he shows how much it bothered him
    that his ex-wife (Carol Kane I think) couldn't have sex without smoking
    a joint first.  Whether it's marijuana or a porn magazine, I don't
    think it's normal to *have* to indulge in order to get turned on enough
    to have sex with somebody the person is supposed to love.
    
    re REK, if he just likes to read how come he never brings Time or the
    National Geographic or Rolling Stone to bed with him?
    
    Lorna
    

    >There's probably going to be lots of denial, resistence, and denigration 
    >of your feelings.  Expect it...
    
    Sadly, I have to agree with this.  What bothers me though is that we're
    expected to *expect* denigration of our feelings.  This is her
    *husband*, the number one person in her life!  Who should care more about 
    her feelings than he?  But I agree.  You can expect to have your
    feelings "brushed off" because he wants his maypo and that's that!  Was
    he like this before you got married?  Can you, (anyone), imagine some
    woman making her husband feel kind of "icky" or at least less then
    wonderful about having sex?  I'm not necessarily referring to the
    turnabout scenario, but whatever it took to make a man feel like he was
    less than your first choice in a lover.  Can you guys imagine your women
    making you feel this way?  What do you think a man might do about it? 
    I doubt very much he'd expect to have his feelings brushed off when he
    mentioned it.  That's IF he stayed around long enough to mention it. 
    We're expected to be satisfied with so much less than what most men would 
    even endure.  And I'll bet that applies to the husband in question, too.
    
    He is being extremely inconsiderate and childish and in brushing off
    your feelings, he's also pulling a power play on you.  He's the man and
    your *just* the woman and so he'll get his way and all you're going to
    be seen as doing is prolonging your own agony and making life difficult
    for him before you surrender and shut up.  If you can't bring him to
    the negotiating table it's time to think of the larger issues in your
    marriage - the control and power-struggle issues.  You *deserve* to
    have your needs met.  And if he's not willing to even acknowledge 
    them, you certainly don't have to endure a lifetime of being made to
    feel like loose change, sexually.  I'm sure there are plenty of lesser 
    women who'd settle for such shoddy treatment.  He deserves one of them.
    
    S.

    
    Sandy, I don't think it's really fair to make this such a gender issue. 
    Do you really have enough information to judge this person in that way?
    Do you really think it's fair to say that if the roles were reversed,
    she would be lucky if he even stayed?
    
    Nick
    

    Well, Nick, having had quite a bit of experience with men over the
    years, and with their feelings toward this subject in particular, I'm 
    willing to put my money on what I said.  Or I wouldn't have said it.  
    What do *you* call brushing off your partner's feelings in order to keep 
    getting what you want, if not a subtle power-play?  As to it being a
    gender issue, you tell me which gender is raised to put others before
    themselves and which one is raised to put themselves first?  Yes, it's
    only *generally* speaking, but we have before us a *specific* case.  So
    I suspect this man was raised pretty normally and takes his needs more
    seriously than hers and that this woman was raised pretty normally too,
    which is why she hasn't confronted him directly with an ultimatum,
    like I believe a man similarly insulted by his mate would most likely do!
    
    Notice I didn't say "insulted in a similar manner".  Some men might not
    mind a woman doing the same thing.  I'm saying his woman making him
    feel the same level of insult she has been enduring - whatever that takes.
    
    Sandy 
    

    Lorna, maybe he does bring other mags to bed with him but the
    "porn" mags is the one that bothers her. Tome and rolling stone
    sip big time.....(IMO)
    
    REK
    

    Sandy, I think it's a little premature to accuse Pam's husband of
    "brushing off her feelings", when she hasn't yet had a chance to answer
    my original question of: has she talked to him about it?
    
    I'm not so quick to judge.  In fact, I like to give people the benefit
    of the doubt, and assume that he is doing this because he doesn't
    realize how it makes her feel, and as soon as she points it out he will
    say "Oh my, I didn't realize you felt that way, it's not as important
    to me as you are, I'll give it up immediately!"  That may seem
    unlikely, but we don't have enough information to know.  I definitely
    think you are shooting from the hip in advising that there is a larger
    gender issue before we even know the outcome of their first
    discussion about the matter!
    
    D!

    Well, Pam, we're at a brick wall until we know.  Have you let him know
    that you don't like this?  Maybe I was hasty.  Maybe I was presumptuous
    in assuming someone would talk to their spouse first - always.  I'll
    concede the point.
    
    Sandy

    re: .14  >Can you, (anyone), imagine some woman making her husband
             >feel kind of "icky" or at least less then wonderful
             >about having sex?
    
    Oh, Sandy, I could write books on this one.  It IS a major problem for
    me.  My wife explains it as a vastly different level of sex drive (she
    is happy with sex in a range from once every two weeks to once in a
    couple of months.  She claims that I would like it every night.  I
    don't know, I never had the opportunity :-).  It is obvious when she
    is not interested and that sure isn't the way to get me excited (not,
    mind you that she wants to).  My response, gentle, cooperative,
    non-aggressive and loving.  What else could I do, no means no, but
    lack of enthusiasm or a feeling of doing it out of obligation means no
    to me also.  BTW, this marriage is going to hell in a handcart for
    this and many other reasons.
    
    I have stayed for over seven years, much of it the same.  Always with
    the promise that, "I'll be able to focus better, my drive will surely
    increase, IF ONLY...", but when the IF ONLY ... happens, another
    appears.   We have been to counseling of several types.
    
    I hate surrender, especially WRT sex.  If it isn't willing involvment,
    it might as well not be.  Oh, and just from my male viewpoint, when
    she does get in the mood every few weeks, it would be a crushing
    insult if I wasn't ready and cooperative (though I'm too d*mned easy
    for my own good, and have always been able to be persuaded.  Even
    though I am sometimes angry with myself afterward.  This is really
    complex and difficult to explain fully in this forum).
    
    Oh, for what it's worth, I think the guy in .0 is a slug.
    
    And, though I doubt you meant it the way I read it, I feel that no man
    or woman deserves to be treated like loose change.  Even if they are
    "lesser".
    
    8-(
    jimc

	Well to all involved thanks for all of your wonderful responses.
	I have contemplated all of the suggestions and this is how it
	goes so far. 
	  I am a person that plays it pretty safe so I took what was one 
	of the most comfortable suggestions first. Yesterday evening during
	supper I attempted to talk with my "SO" ( <= I'm picking up some of the 
        terminology) about what he is doing and how it makes me feel. 
        Well it was a rather lengthy conversation and it didn't turn out
	very well. The conversation, or should I say shouting match, took
	a turn for the worse when my "SO" said he was going out and
	would be back when he felt good and ready. He got really defensive
	and avoided the topic at hand and said that he didn't want to
	discuss it. I can't tell if he was embarrassed or what. After
	about half a box of tissues I turned on the television to try to
	take my mind off it all and wait until Pete returned. Well I
	fell asleep and in the morning Pete had still not returned. I
	came into work and tried to call him at work, he was not at work
	either. By about supper time Pete came in and acted like nothing
	had happened. He told me that he had gone to the Cape to help a
	friend with something.
	  Since this idea did not work I am willing to try another 
	approach. Maybe I should fight fire with fire. One of the previous
	suggestions was maybe to try and get some soft porn videos that
	both of us could view. Does anyone have any titles of these type
	of videos since I have not seen any?

	Pam
	
	P.S. They will be sending me to BUO for training next week so I
	     might not be able to keep you up to date on what's happening
             for about a week.

    Pam,
    
    I think you have real problems here.  That kind of behavior is a very
    potent form of manipulation.  The refusal to acknowledge it is a bad
    sign also (IMO).  I forget the good titles (been a while since I had a
    use for any 8-{ )  but the ones that usually turned out best were
    spoofs on real movies and shows (Oh yeah, like "Hannah Does Her
    Sisters").  The problem I see here is a "Failyuh to communicate" and,
    quite honestly, you can't do it all by yourself (communicate that is).
    
    Is your SO ammenable to the video idea?  Will he even talk about it?
    
    Good luck, I fear you're going to need it.
    
    Friendly hugs
    jimc

    
    Pam,
    
    My opinion -- it sounds as though you're doing backflips to 
    take care of his needs while sacrificing your own needs and 
    concerns.  Maybe soft porn is an answer, but it sounds like
    you're looking into this because it's a potential avenue to 
    appease HIM rather than yourself.
    
    Please take care of *you*.
    
    Carla
    

    Your husband is an unthinking clod, badly in need of a major maturity
    transplant.  You didn't mention whether you have children or not.  I
    hope you don't as long as that kind of trash is in the house.
    
    Gather then up, burn them, and then tell him if he brings one more in
    the house he can pack his bag.  You don't have to tolerate this kind
    of pseudo adultry.
    

    Pam-
    
    Why don't you get yourself a copy of Playgirl,
    put it on your bedside table, and when he comes
    to bed and starts to read is mags, you do the
    same.  If you can't lick em, join em' ! (-;
    
    HRH

		Your note hit some tender cords. Your SO reaction was
	too much like I used to be. It was controlling, abusive, and
	an avoidance mechanism. The important issue to me is the in-ability
	to be able to deal problems, not the problem itself. In the past,
	I would not go to counseling(it's for people with "real problems") and 
	rationalized away all the issues as isignificant. When I got
	hit by a truck(my wife left me), and I had to face myself and
	take a hard look at myself, I didn't like what I saw, and I
	began the painful road to change. If I understood 10% of what I do
	now I and my children would not have gone through divorce-I learned
	too late. Why do I bring this up-because I believe that as risky as
	it is you need to address the key issue now-the inability to talk
	real(and hence painful and threatening) issues with your SO. If
	he cares enough to go to counseling with you and can learn to
	not be afraid to be sensitive and aware, the path will not get better.
	You cannot change him or solve the problems, but that process won't 
	start without pain. There is a risk, he might leave rather than face
	the problems. Either way my gut says your better off. I wish something
	could have happened to get me facing the mirror, before I and my 
	children had to pay such a horrible price to learn.

    
    I second the suggestion for counseling.
    
    What could have been a small-to-medium-sized problem that you
    could both deal with (his porn addiction) is actually a much
    bigger problem than that.  Has he even *apologized* for taking
    off on you like that the other night?!  That's *totally* inexcusable
    behavior!  It sounds to me like you'll have to deal with that
    aspect of his behavior first!  That's extremely manipulative and
    *very* immature of him.
    
    Cripe - I sure don't envy you. :-(
    
    I also second the suggestion to take care of yourself.
    

    How old is this klutz.....13?  Don't compromise your standards or
    lower yourself to his level.  It is that important to have a
    man-child around the house??  I hope not.  Next time he leaves
    because he can't have his way, change the lock, and look for a
    real man......one who respects women.

    no, next time he starts evading your concerns *you* leave
    and come back a day later. Let *him* *feel* the kind of shit
    he put you through.

    Warning: retaliatory head trips are dangerous.  Never bluff unless you
    are willing and able to handle the consequences.  Listen most closely
    to the the simple advice here (is my advice).  Take care of yourself. 
    Try to get counseling for both of you.  DO NOT accept his head trips or
    guilt trips or any other abusive behavior as right, justified or
    deserved, it isn't and NEVER will be.
    
    Besides, if I guess right, retaliatory head trips are too foriegn to be
    comfortable for you (they were for me when I was in an abusive
    relationship).
    
    Hang in there,
    Hugs
    jimc

    Alright, Sandy, I concede - he's a clod.
    
    See what I get for trying to give people the benefit of the doubt?
    
    
    Pam, I'm sorry to make light of your situation.  I feel bad for
    you...if that happened to me I would be VERY VERY angry and hurt.
    
    The extremity of your husband's reaction points to problems much deeper
    than the skin-mag issue.  It sounds like there is a big communication
    break-down, of which the magazine issue is just a symptom.
    
    D!, playing Friday afternoon shrink

one of my very best friends in this world was married for 14 years to a man
who systematically destroyed her self-esteem...one of his most effective
techniques was to read porn in bed beside her, then turn off the light and
have sex with M.  He is a manipulative, emotionally-distant, emotionally
abusive, and self-centered man-child.  He made himself feel stronger by
telling M how "weak", "stupid", "incompetent" she was.  He had her convinced
she couldn't even cook - nothing she made tasted as good as he could buy
at the local diner.  He also had a mistress - one of M's so-called friends.
He treated her like a not very competent maid.

If any of the above description sounds familiar to you, any of you....GET OUT
NOW!  This man was not interested in counseling - after all, M had the
problem, not HIM.  He is now married to the mistress - and, after years of
hideously painful rebuilding by M and those of us who love her as a friend and
sister, M is finally able to accept herself, know she is a capable, 
interesting, bright, and extraordinarily beautiful human being.  She paid
a terrible price to try and make that marriage work - it took us 10 years to
repair what has been repaired...and some broken pieces will never be made
right again.  I know, although she deserves loving as much or more than
anyone else in this world, M will never trust a man enough to allow him 
into her life as more than a friend.  She is therefore destined to be 
without that special closeness that a healthy relationship with an SO can 
bring...It is too high a price to pay.

I know so much about this because I have saved M from committing suicide
twice...I am her friend and her roommate.  

    
    Pam,
    
    As others have said, I think it's important for you think about what
    you need here (a hard thing) and then (harder still) I think you need
    to ask yourself whether or not you can get what you need in this
    relationship.  If you share your husband's interest in porn, it might
    be something that you could look into together, but I haven't heard
    you mention that as something you'd like to do, and I don't think you
    should be doing "backflips" (as Carla said) for him.  I've found that
    when you cross your own boundaries just to "be nice" to the other
    person s/he doesn't appreciate it, and you can end up feeling bad about
    yourself.  I encourage you to try thinking about what it is that has
    you angry, worried, upset (the magazines, his leaving for the night
    without calling to say he was ok, other things?)  and then tell him
    that you need to talk about these things.  If he's unwilling to talk,
    you might suggest a counselor.  If he's unwilling to do that, I suggest
    you think about finding a therapist for yourself so you can figure out
    what to do next.  We can be a sounding board and offer all kinds of
    free advice, but a therapist could really help you figure out what
    feels right to you.
    
    You deserve to be treated better than you've been treated - maybe your
    husband can work on stuff with you and treat you with more respect, but
    if not... I hope you'll put yourself first.
    
    Justine -- once stayed way too long in a terrible relationship, still
               reeling from time to time 

    At this point, I'd recommend that you find someone in EAP, and talk
    with them.  At various points in my life, that is all I have needed to
    get things clarified enough in my own mind to go forward.
    
    I regard what you encountered when you tried to talk with your husband
    as extreme defensiveness.  Is this the first time that you have started
    a conversation about something in your lives that is bothering you?  If
    so, then from his perspective his world just got stood on its head -
    his wife doesn't think he's perfect!!  I don't mean that you should
    stop letting him know when things bother you.  His reactions also
    bother you - and should, in my opinion.  By virtue of reading this file
    and working at Digital, you are growing as a person.  Now he must also
    grow, if he is to keep up with you.  
    
    Best of luck to both of you.  I sincerely hope you can work things out.
    
    Alison

    Re .21
    
    It seems to me that your SO's reaction was motivated by embarrassment
    and hurt pride.  

    I think the way you acted was right, and I think you should just
    do the same thing again - tell him calmly that you find the way
    he uses his magazines to be rude and unmannerly.
    
    There is no need, as yet, to change your strategy.  You don't have
    to play games, nor does there seem to be any immediate need for
    counselling.  He is acting in an extremely immature manner, but
    the immature do sometimes mature.  Let him know that a night at the 
    cape does not cause an issue like this to disappear.
    
    
    Good Luck
         
    Liam

    
    Pam,
    
    I agree with the previous replies that there seems to be a real
    problem with communications between you and your husband.  I also
    think you shouldn't give up until YOU are happy.  If you're not
    happy then the situation still needs to be resolved.  
    
    Also, this may be an unpleasant question but it's something
    you need to ask yourself.  Have you verified that he was at
    a "friends" house?
    
    If/When you speak with him again, you probably need to prepare
    yourself for what to do if/when he runs off again.  Only you can decide
    what to do but there are several options:
    	- follow him at a distance to see when he goes
    	- pack his belongings for him while he's gone.
    	- leave the house yourself and don't leave a note.
    	(but beware there may be legal ramifications to this.)
    	- go speak with a lawyer.  If he's left the house, then by
    	law I think you have certain rights.
    	- wait for him.
    
    You don't deserve to be walked on or to have your concerns ignored.
    You are a valuable person who deserves love and respect.  Don't
    accept anything less.
    
    Rachael
    

    Pam,
    
    Every noter has shared some really good points and brought to my
    mind some bad memories.  You have to be strong and not let this
    charactr manipulate you!  By walking out like he did, don't let
    that change your viewpoint.  Sounds like he may trying to avoid
    a confrontation, which is exactly what you both need!  Porno itself
    is O.K., but someone mentioned something about trying to break your
    self-esteem.  That could certainly be the case here,  don't go for
    that trick.  If there's truly more to this issue, than just porno,
    you may separate for a time.  He may see you in an entirely new
    light.  You may see yourslf in an entirely different way as well,
    which just may the lift you need.

    	All of the quasi-psychologists and home-psychiatrists in this file
    beware. Your Anne Landers advice is dangerous to the basenoter and her
    life wife with her SO. 
    	No one asked how her life is outside the bedroom. Is he a good
    partner who shares other things with her? Is he a supportive man who
    genuinely does care for her? When did he start buying the magazines?
    Since they cost a small fortune, are they affordable for the budget? 
    If there are children in the house, why does she allow the magazines to
    be openly displayed in the bedroom?
    	There are too many open spots in this story. Of course, this is WN
    and as is attested by the hanging judges in here, the guy is a dirty
    rotten low life, pond sucking scumbag, dirtball. He can't even defend
    himself. Maybe, just maybe, the basenoter didn't tell us that she has
    taken a bath since January of 1967. It's immediately assumed that she
    is a demure, sensetive, wonderful person who has never picked a flower
    for fear that plants hurt when picked. This is not meant to be
    insulting to the basenoter, but this file reacts with extreme
    visciousness with 50% of the story.
    
    	It seems that a lot has gone by in the bedroom and it won't get
    fixed in two weeks. These things take time. Confronting someone out of
    the clear blue like she did, can only result in confrontation. He must
    have taken totally off guard, had no response and maybe felt like he
    was being accused of being a pervert.
    
    	C'mon folks, let's be a bit cautious. You have no idea of the
    entire situation. So far, I read replies that tell the basenoter to
    teach him a lesson, buy porno, rent porno, shut him off from sex, and
    the most intelligent response, "leave him"!!!! 
    
    	The best responses I've seen are the ones that tell her to get
    professional help. 
    
    	To the basenoter....I truly hope that you and your SO can make some
    sense out of your distress. I hope you take the advice of seeking some 
    professional help. I wish you luck and good fortune.
    
    Ken 

    A simple and maybe inapproriate question to the basenoter....
    Have you ever tried to take the initiative to get intimate or is it
    always up to your SO?
    It may sound somewhat strange, but sometimes us men like to be seduced
    you know. And before everyone goes for my jugular, this doesn't
    necesarily mean prancing about in sexy underwear etc.
    
    Charles Mallo

    ... on the other hand, some men feel that any attempt at initiating
    sexual activity by a woman constitutes Enormous and Unbearable
    Pressure to Perform -- which is (of course) invariably 100%
    counter-productive.
    
    						Ann B.

    Like I said, some men like to sometimes....
    But the question remains, was it tried?
    
    Charles Mallo

    >No one asked how her life is outside the bedroom. Is he a good
    >partner who shares other things with her?
    
    No kind of life "outside the bedroom" is worth the price of one's self
    esteem *and* the price of losing any hope of having a warm, open and
    exciting love and sex life.  Think about it.  What can he possibly
    contribute to her life that is worth this price?  What could one bring
    to yours to make you willing to pay it?
    
    As for the "sharing porn" idea, I don't think it will work because the
    porn itself isn't quite the point, it's the power-play.  It's
    specifically something she *cannot* share that is what's chosen.  He
    might indulge her in the "sharing" at first, but after the movie's over, 
    he will still grab his magazines and make her wait.  She *must* bring 
    him to the negotiating table.  He's avoiding it at all costs.  It's a 
    power struggle and it will be won, one way or the other.  My advice Pam,
    would be don't back down now or you will increasingly dislike your
    marriage.  And it will be much, much tougher to survive the next power
    play with having acquiesced this time to what he knows damn well is a
    major issue with you, (and with many women - they know that), and a major 
    point in your marriage.  It shouldn't be about you or him wrestling for
    dominance, try to make him see that, it should be about the success of
    the marriage - a third thing separate from either of you and something
    you'd agreed to work together on.  If your one car broke down, would
    you bicker about how to fix it?  You'd probably get it fixed using the
    best contributions of both, (he takes it to the mechanic, you pick it
    up, whatever), and get on with life.  If you care about your marriage, 
    don't let him destroy it.  Your good feelings are required, just as his 
    are, for a good marriage. 
    
    >the guy is a dirty rotten low life, pond sucking scumbag, dirtball. 
    
    Frankly, he's probably more like just a normal guy, really and I
    haven't seen any woman say anything of the kind.  Just you.  If the
    behavior of many normal, average guys seems to be like the above when you 
    are confronted with it, try to imagine how it feels to a woman who is
    confronted with it in the most personal manner.  And how powerless one
    can feel when such a guy rightly *considers* himself to be a normal,
    average guy.  What he needs to understand here is that in a marriage,
    the partner's feelings should take precedence over one's own ego. 
    Right now he's seeing only a challenge to his image of himself as
    normal, healthy, red-blooded and of course, male.  One perhaps a little
    too young yet for marriage.
    
    S. 
    
    He can't even defend
    himself. Maybe, just maybe, the basenoter didn't tell us that she has
    taken a bath since January of 1967. It's immediately assumed that she
    is a demure, sensetive, wonderful person who has never picked a flower
    for fear that plants hurt when picked. This is not meant to be
    insulting to the basenoter, but this file reacts with extreme
    visciousness with 50% of the story.
    
    	It seems that a lot has gone by in the bedroom and it won't get
    fixed in two weeks. These things take time. Confronting someone out of
    the clear blue like she did, can only result in confrontation. He must
    have taken totally off guard, had no response and maybe felt like he
    was being accused of being a pervert.
    
    	C'mon folks, let's be a bit cautious. You have no idea of the
    entire situation. So far, I read replies that tell the basenoter to
    teach him a lesson, buy porno, rent porno, shut him off from sex, and
    the most intelligent response, "leave him"!!!! 
    
    	The best responses I've seen are the ones that tell her to get
    professional help. 
    
    	To the basenoter....I truly hope that you and your SO can make some
    sense out of your distress. I hope you take the advice of seeking some 
    professional help. I wish you luck and good fortune.
    
    Ken 
    

    Pam,
    
    I don't feel I know enough about the situation, or how I would react in
    the same situation, to offer words.
    
    But, here's a hug instead.
    
    
    Good luck to ya, girl - don't give up in whatever efforts you decide to
    take. I love my man, and if I was to feel his mind wandering away from
    me, in any way, I'd try *anything* to keep him. I value him very
    highly.
    
    Alice T.
    
    

    Oops, sorry. I meant to delete all the text following my signature on
    my last reply.  That's what I get for editing in notes.  Sorry!

    
    Pam,
    	Go to a shrink. Make yourself feel better first.
    	Then try to get your SO to a shrink.
    	If your SO doesn't care enough to see a shrink,
    	think about options for YOUR future.
    	Life is too short to put up with unhappiness.
    
    Eva

    
    Pam --> I'm breaking my own rules and posting a note to your 
    topic in this volatile, emotionally-charged conference --> with 
    the sincere hope that this advice brings you some well-deserved 
    piece of mind!
    
    Call your local EAP and request a meeting with a counselor.   They
    will want to know the answer to two questions that usually boil 
    down to --> "why now" and "how long?"  Think about it now, so you 
    can respond with candor.  
    
    Your husband may or may not --> have some problems that require 
    intervention.  Nevertheless, if he refuses to talk to you about
    your feelings about his skin magazines --> he will probably refuse 
    to talk to someone you want him to see --> about it.  
    
    You can still benefit from someone trained to listen --> as well 
    as advise you --> about what you can do with your situation.  It is 
    clearly impossible for us understand what motivates you husband to 
    do what he does --> just from the info you gave us.  We shouldn't
    try anyway!
    
    For now --> rest assured with the knowledge that his current 
    behavior is --> [[NOT]] typical.  His need for what sounded like 
    arrousal-through-skin-magazines --> before he makes love to you, 
    sounds like a manifestation of something else going on with him 
    or maybe the overall relationship --> in general.
    
    It may even get worse over time.  Especially when he is suddenly 
    confronted --> as in your description of what happened, when you 
    tried to just talk to him about it.
    
    I wouldn't try any of the "get even" or "fight fire with fire" 
    advice --> already posted here.  Sudden changes in your behavior 
    may only serve to inflame an already unusual and sensitive situation.
    
    Like if his behaviour didn't bother you --> you wouldn't be asking 
    for help --> please consider the EAP.  Often --> talking about a big
    problem can make it more manageable.
    
    Remember, with a little time and patience --> even the most 
    insurmountable problem can develop a sheen and lustre, similar to
    that seen with a bright rainbow after a wicked storm!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Good luck --> let us know how things work out for you!
    
    --dc