Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
    There has been some press recently about the complications (life 
    threatening, I think) of having this done.  I'm sorry, I can't offer
    any more details but perhaps one of the readers of this file has been
    more observant than I.
    
    You asked for opinions, though.  My opinion is that you'll be happiest
    if you can learn to love yourself as you are.  (This is good advice
    that I am still working on for myself, BTW.  As I typed it, I thought
    'Oh, I'd love to be 5'8" and 125 pounds!' (I am 5'3" and 160.))
    
    CQ   

    When I moved to Ft. Lauderdale in the late 70s, my friend there told 
    me "everyone" had it done.  I don't know about everyone, but I ended
    up meeting plenty who had.  And they all said they lost sensitivity.  
    You didn't ask for any judgement so I'll leave it to you to decide
    whose pleasure is more important to you.  Just keep in mind that's what
    you'll be deciding.  My opinion on the matter is probably pretty
    obvious.
    
    Sandy

    
    I've read in a UK paper today that Dolly Parton is in a
    life-threatening situation because silicon from her vastly enlarged
    breasts is leaking in to her bloodstream.  Don't know how true it is,
    but sounds a bit risky to me.
    
    I've never heard of any other methods - are there any?
    
    Sam
    

    I watched a TV talk show a while back and a doctor was giving some
    info about this and a couple of things stuck in my mind....
    
    sometimes breast cancer can go undetected because mammography cannot
    see behind the silicone implants and sometimes the silicone leaks out
    of the "pouch" into the body.  Just a few things to think about!!
    
    -Dotti

    My boyfriend's father from my freshman year in college was a national
    expert on breast augmentation surgery - I saw him on 20-20 a couple of
    year ago talking about the dangers of implants.  These include a higher
    chance of breast cancer.  Also the tissue around the implant tends to
    constrict and harden - after a few year, your breasts will have a hard
    unbreastlike lump in the middle.
    
    D!

    Right D!  Capsular contracture they call it and to prevent it or to
    help alleviate it, you grab hold and pull, push, stretch and squeeze
    HARD on a regular basis, often more than once a day!  (Ever had a
    mammo?  That's *nuthin'*!)
    
    All to please men's eyes.  Not their hands, of course, because they'll 
    know in a second when they feel those baseballs on your chest.  But oh, 
    the pictures of you they could have...  before your CC treatments, of
    course.
    
    S.

    But Sandy!!
    
    Tell us how you *really* feel!
    
    D!

    Who, me?  Opinionated??    ;^>

    
    For Pete's sake, what's a little risk of the big C when you're talking
    the big PM (pleasing men?) 
    
    Keep things in perspective, girls, please.
    
    ;-)
    
    D.

    Okay, I admit it, I know little to zip about this topic.  Why would
    a woman want really big breasts?  They'll sag like real ones do,
    won't they?
    
    
                                   L.J.

    L.J.
    
    From what people are saying rather than sag they'll become like
    rocks.
    
    Bonnie

I'll admit to a bit of vanity myself, though in another area.  I have tried,
more than once, to wear contact lenses.  First, the hard plastic kind, about
15 years ago.  Never was really comfortable wearing them -- strange as it sounds
they *tickled* my eyeballs, by twisting around on them.  And I was inordinately
sensitive to dust, wind, etc, and since I'm an outdoorsy type that was a biggie.
Well hard lenses both change the shape of your cornea, and change their own
shape, over time, and that began to affect the correction to my vision.  At
first only late in the day, but progressively earlier, my vision would get
blurry and no amount of blinking could clear it.  Until I realized what was
happening I was grumpy... also my eyes would get red and tear a lot.

The last time I wore them was for my wedding.  Everyone said, "Oh, <how cute>,
the bride's crying!"  No -- the bride's contact lenses were bugging her.

When I had my 2nd child I convinced myself that it was a horrible inconvenience
to have to fumble around for glasses for night feedings. 8-}  So this time I
went for the extended-wear soft lenses.  I hate fussing with things, so I did 
not want to have to remove & clean lenses every day.  To make a long story short
these didn't work either.  I'm allergic to the chemical cleaning fluids (made me
look like I'd been on a 3-wk drinking binge), and I never did feel comfortable
with even the soft lenses.  Had to take them out and rinse them every day,
which is more fuss than it's worth (to me).

I can understand that you might feel a desire to change your appearance.
We in =wn= know how sensitive *we* are about breast size, from recent
experience!  I guess you need to do what you feel is best for *you*.  But be
advised, I'm gonna worry about you if you decide to do the implants!  I see the
issue as much the same as my choosing to wear contacts.  But contacts can be
taken out, and though there are risks, they may not be as serious as the risks
of breast implants.  Is implant surgery reversable, if you change your mind or
if it doesn't work for you?

Love and hugs -- Sara

    A male friend once told me that he had sex with a woman who had had her
    breasts made bigger, and he said that they felt as hard as rocks.  He
    said he was so shocked when he first touched them he almost fell off
    the bed because he didn't know to expect that.  He said that he would
    prefer a woman with smaller, but normal feeling breasts.  So, even in
    the dubious interest of pleasing men, breast augmentation may not be
    the ticket!
    
    Also, think what else you could do with however much money it costs! 
    You could probably come up with something you'd rather have or do than
    bigger breasts.  (Heck, even *I* can!)
    
    Lorna
    

    I shouldn't speak for others, and I don't plan to.
    
    To start with there are many types of implants and several different
    containers for the implants.  Raw silicone is never used except by
    quacks as it migrates throught the body.  Certain container materials
    have recently come under fire (PVC is noteable!) as carcinogins.  The
    material contained in the implant is also a choice silicone, is common
    but gaining in popularity is saline (physiological salt solution) because
    it's compatability with the host and less difficulty with mamograms.
    The encapsulization problem is known and the container for the implant
    does affect it's severity as does the surgical technique.  Sensitivity
    is also affected by surgical technique, the simpler under breast(above
    the chest muscles) does lower sensitivity.  Another slightly more
    difficult procedure is under the chest wall muscles and impacts
    sensitivity less.  Hardness of the breast is also a function of
    inflation (sorry better term lacking) the larger the worse it will
    be due mostly to stretching the breast skin like a baloon.
    
    Like most things sensationalism abounds and facts are very hard to
    come by.  Consult a plastic surgeon who is recognized and has a track
    record for more accurate and complete data.  No one should be unhappy
    with their body if it represents an extreme to herself.

    Allison
    
    PS: It was my understanding that Dolly P., those are real not
        purchased.
    

    Cathy, certainly, do what you want!
    
    I've been a little uncomfortable with some of the judgemental replies
    in here as well!
    
    I wrote a note to warn you of the risks (cancer, scar tissue, perhaps
    leaking silicone.)  But everything has risks associated with it.  Some
    people chose to ski, or to ride motorcycles, or whatever.  Everyone has
    to decide what level of risk they are willing to take for what they
    want.
    
    I don't anyone should claim to understand someone else's motives.  All
    the talk about doing this "for men" assumes that that is the only
    reason someone would want a larger bust.  I, for one, don't know the
    author of the basenote, and until her last note, I had no reason to
    believe that she was even interested in men!  For all I knew, she could
    have been a Lesbian!
    
    I am in the process of changing my body: I am dieting.  I am doing it
    because I want to look better.  Not for men; not for women; but for
    *me*.  I would find *myself* more attractive if I were thinner, and so
    I am trying to be thinner.  If I would find myself more attractive with
    larger or smaller breasts, and it was important enough to me to risk
    surgery and associated problems, I'd do it!  And I would resent people
    telling me I was doing it to "please my man (or my woman)" if that
    weren't the case.
    
    Finally, what is so bad about pleasing men?  Most of us desire love,
    sex, relationships, etc.  And many of us value physical attractiveness. 
    Why should someone who wants someone else not try to make themselves
    attractive to that person?
    
    D!

    
    On a totally different note, I just wanted to say that I understand
    where you're coming from. When I was in high school, I had an accident
    during a soccer game; my teeth went through my lips. When my lips
    healed, the bottom lip was scarred and abnormally large. To this day,
    the extra tissue can still get in the way when I bite, and cause
    immense pain.
    
    My mother promised me that if I didn't grow comfortable with my lips by
    the time I was 18, she would pay for plastic surgery. I chose not to,
    but it always made me grateful that she offered this because I have
    personal hang-ups about the size of my lips. They are one of my strong
    black features, and on my pale face, they were an object of ridicule
    for years as I grew up. 
    
    When something changes the way you are, into something different from
    what you want to be, its okay to want to change back. I think
    researching the pros and cons is a wise first step and I wish you all
    the best in your decision.

Yes, I am judgmental. Why shouldn't I be? Since when do we all have to
go around pretending we don't judge things, make value judgments? When I
see people risking potentially fatal illnesses to kowtow to the everlasting
message society gives us, that whatever it is you (read: women) are, it
isn't good enough, I make a judgment. A value judgment. So sue me... 

D.

    re .16, I was under the impression that Dolly Parton's breasts were
    real, too?  (Frankly, I don't know why anyone would *want* to be that
    big, since I don't find her figure appealing at all.  Too out of
    proportion for my taste.)
    
    re .0, I hope I didn't sound judgemental in my reply.  If you decide to
    go ahead with it I wish you the best, and hope you're happy with the
    results.
    
    It would be interesting to hear from women who have had this done.
    
    Lorna
    

    I had heard that Dolly had had breast REDUCTION surgery at one point
    (but then again I heard that about Loni Anderson too).
    
    -Jody
    

    re.19
       Huzzah!  A person who knows hypocrisy when she sees it and isn't
    afraid to tell the truth!
       I don't agree with her content to the breast topic, but I certainly
    like her style!  
    
    
                                   L.J.

    Dorian, you are welcome to make judgements - we all do. I do, as you
    know.
    
    However, it isn't your place to tell someone else that their decisions
    are wrong, or for the wrong reasons.  
    
    There is a difference between judging society wrong for placing undue
    emphasis on breast size, and telling a woman she ought not get her
    breasts enlarged because otherwise she is a tool of the patriarchy.
    
    The latter is insulting and offensive (or, at least, it would be to
    me.)
    
    D!

    This topic has been a hot one between my boyfriend and I.  I am very
    petite (4'11) and have thought about having augmentation done (not the
    size of Dolly's) simply to look more like a woman instead of a 12 year
    old getting ready to bloom.  My boyfriend is completely against it, says
    he likes me just the way I am.  Anyway, we did watch a show together
    one night that showed what the implants look like when they go in and
    what happens after 2 - 3 years.  The implant covering looked like they
    had been through a fire.  It had broken down and the edges were a dark
    brown.  He looked at me and said "Still want to have it done?"  My
    answer now is a resounding no!  That is not a risk I choose to take.
    I hope this helps.
    
    KK

> Yes, I am judgmental. Why shouldn't I be? Since when do we all have to
> go around pretending we don't judge things, make value judgments? When I
> see people risking potentially fatal illnesses to kowtow to the everlasting
> message society gives us, that whatever it is you (read: women) are, it
> isn't good enough, I make a judgment. A value judgment. So sue me... 

My reading of the basenote (now apparently gone) was that it was asking for
supportive replies and information. Why you shouldn't be judgemental in this
note is the same reason you should not be judgemental in any SRO note. If you
can't be supportive here, start a new note.

	-- Charles

    
    This is a reply from the basenote author...
    
    Bonnie J =wn= comod
    
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    I knew this subject would create some rather strong opinions!  Hey, I
    was just asking about experiences....not judgements!  I do like myself
    the way I am, I workout which makes me feel good about myself, I do
    lots of things which make me feel good about myself.  In fact up until
    recently I would have been shocked if any of my friends had told me
    they had breast enlargements, and I too probably would have mis-judged
    them - thinking they are too vain.
     
    But breastfeeding 2 babies made me go down in my breast size, not to
    mention it has totally made me loose sensitivity in my breasts.  I feel
    nothing now.  Sensitivity then, is not an issue.  And, my clothes don't
    fit well any longer, I feel as if my body has no shape - when I
    look in the mirror I feel like I look like a man!  That's why I am 
    INTERESTED in learning more about it.
    
    And I AM NOT doing this to please any man or men at all...in fact, my
    husband likes me the way I am, he said "I like it when you're the size you
    are now, I don't like big busted women - but if you want to CHECK INTO
    it, do so!"   I DON'T WANT TO BE LARGE BUSTED - I just wouldn't mind if 
    I had a size B cup - that's all.
    
    ....I've always been satsified with my (lack of) breast size - until 
    the babies came along and took 3/4 of my breasts with them...I'd like 
    my old clothes to fit me better, and I'd like to have some shape.
    And since my sister had it done (for other reasons than just mine) 
    and has been so pleased with it, I thought I'd check into it.  
    That's all.  
    
    Because of some of these responses, I would think that anyone who has
    had it done would be afraid to come forward and talk about their
    experiences.  Those are some of the people I'd like to hear from!  I
    know you're out there!
    
    Cathy

    It is too bad that the basenote writer was apparently not aware
    of our SRO policy...
    
    But can'tw e all please try and respond as if *any note* was an SRO..
    I really respect our out spoken noters, they are women of discernment.
    But it seems lately that we are all too 'hair trigger'.... can we
    try and ask questions first, and not assume the worst case on a first
    reading of a  note? 
    
    That has been a strength of =wn= in the past.....let us claim it
    in the future...
    
    I've moved everything to reinsert the basenote without the basenoters
    name and node, at her request...
    
    Bonnie J
    =wn= comod

    
    Dolly P's breasts may well be real, I was just reporting what I'd read
    in the paper .. and you certainly can't believe everything you read
    over here!  :-)
    
    Sam
    

    The current publicity on breast implants has centered around silicon
    implants.  According to a plastic surgeon I saw on Oprah, there are
    non-silicon implants that aren't as dangerous.  She places non-
    silicon implants (she didn't specify what type) BEHIND the muscle
    wall so as not to impair mammograms and sensitivity.  She also
    recommended that any woman comtemplating such surgery to find a
    competent plastic surgeon and ask questions.  She wasn't given much
    of a chance to speak as the audience was against her.
    
    The show was centered around the airline employee who was fired for
    NOT wearing makeup per company policy.  The audience was booing 
    anyone making any type of statement FOR cosmetic appearances, 
    including plastic surgery.  
    
    If a woman is not pleased with herself and can SAFELY remedy the
    situation, then she should do it.  
    
    Linda
    
    

    I overhreard today that it was heard on the news (how's that for
    thirdhand!) that Dolly Parton does INDEED have silicone leaking into
    her bloodstream.  The main problem with that is it is lodging in her
    liver and can make her REALLY sick.
    
    However, the women I heard this from said it was from her silicone
    injections.  not implants, but injections (like injecting it INTO the
    breasts, not like they surgically implanted a pillow of silicone).  
    
    not sure how much of this is factual but if you are ever going to get
    breast enlargement, please follow the rules I've heard/read time and
    time again for anyone considering plastic surgery.
    
    1.  Get a surgeon who's listed with the American Board of Plastic
    Surgeons (or some group called something like that - they have to be
    licensed and inspected or something to verify they're up to par)
    
    2.  If a reputable surgeon says "you're a bad candidate for this
    surgery because....", LISTEN to them.  Don't keep getting new opinions
    until someone does the surgery on you because they probably KNOW you're
    a bad candidate and if they're willing to do it anyway THEY DON"T CARE.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    The Dolly Parton story is front page on all the scandal sheets right
    now.
    
    CQ

If the scandal sheets have a story about Dolly Parton's silicone woes on
their front pages, that is to me an almost certain indicator that she
has no such problem.  Oh, there's often a grain of truth in what these
papers print, but...

Most public figures don't even bother to institute litigation against
scandalmongers because it's not worth it, and such action would also
dignify the jerks.

On the original topic, I can't speak from experience, being flatter than
any woman I know, but I have read enough horror stories in responsible
media to scare the living daylights out of me.

-d

    Re: earlier speculations on whether augmented breasts are like rocks,
    or whether they sag.
    
    I once saw, on TV, a woman who had breast implants (remember Bloom County 
    "What did they plant in that woman's chest?"  "Must have been
    cantaloupes!").
    
    The woman later (later than receiving the breast implants, that is) had
    a baby boy.  When she appeared on TV, her breasts both jutted and sagged. 
    Sort of odd, I thought.
    
    I used to be flat chested, while my mother and my sister were each well
    endowed.  Mom ultimately underwent breast reduction, and has been much
    more comfortable (and still quite well endowed!)  
    
    I've gotten so fat that finally some of it had to be stored in my 
    breasts - and I do mean *finally*  :)  :(   
    
    I find these larger breasts to be uncomfortable, and bothersome and now 
    (nature imitating art), I too, without benefit or detriment of surgery, 
    both bulge and sag.  Sigh.
    
    aq
                                                           

    For the information that you requested, call:
    
    Dr. William T. Hyland, M.D.
    Plastic Surgery
    110 Francis Street
    Boston, MA  02215
    
    (617) 735-9074
    
    He is the best.  He will give you all the pertinent information
    you need to make a personal and responsible decision.
    
    Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
    

    OOPS .. forgot one thing.  Dr. Hyland even has pamphlets on this
    subject describing the procedure, risks, etc.
    
    I'm sure his office would be glad to mail you one.