Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    	What was this episode about?
    
    	Scott

    I saw the episode.  It was about successful black career women in
    the DC area, who are discovering there is a shortage of black single
    men with comparable careers.  They profiled one woman in particular,
    and also interviewed a small group of her friends.  Apparently, black
    women are more likely to achieve, while black men their age are not,
    and many of them are blue collar workers or in prison.  Some of the
    women are marrying interracially or marrying "down" to black men who
    make less money than they, and who work at less comparable careers.
    There were also experts that they interviewed, but I really was having
    trouble staying awake, and missed some.  These women were beautiful and
    classy ladies!  It was very interesting, and something I was not aware
    of at all, but apparently this is a fast-growing trend.
    
    Kim

    
    Whaddaya think I've been bitching about for the past 4 years!
    
    Actually, here in New England there is supposedly a plethora of
    eligible black professional men. However, since they are so in demand,
    they have a range of women from all walks of life to choose from. Many
    of them are enjoying playing the field! Others have no interest in a
    partnership with a professional woman but prefer an "arm-trophy", a
    good-looking fashionable woman who spends her time admiring him instead of
    developing her own talents. And then... some of these men are not the
    most socially developed of God's creatures, having spent too many of
    their formulative years in labs or with computers.
    
    I guess I'm picky. I'm definitely single.

    A good frind of mine (black female) seems to have been in a position
    very similar to 'ren's.
    
    She was from Chicago and *hated* New England because, as she put it,
    there was no diversity here.  In Boston it's essentially all WASPs and
    their ilk.  She found that finding a steady boyfriend (with similar
    tastes) was extremely difficult.  One could say impossible, but that
    sounds like hyperbole.  She finally took the opportunity to go back to
    Chicago a year or two ago and is, as I understand it, very happy there.

    
    Lisa, I really have to disagree.
    
    The problems in the black community around male-female relations are
    acute to extreme, and well documented inside the community. One of the
    large contributing factors is the tendency to espouse the American
    societal norm in choosing a partner, i.e. to marry a man of equal or
    better social, financial and or professional standing.
    
    In America, several factors, including discrimination and reverse
    discrimination are skewing the numbers of black men and women who
    advance into professional careers. Black women fill double quotas, and
    are therefore more "marketable" in professional fields. Black men, on
    the other hand are having a hard time getting off the streets and into
    colleges and professional jobs. One fourth of America's black men in
    their teens and twenties have been in jail. And that's a higher number
    than the number of black men who have been in college. Top off the fact
    that the number one cause of death for black teenaged males is
    homocide, and that a lot of black men do not make it past age 27, and
    you have a SERIOUS problem. A shortage of black men in general, and a
    discrepancy in "marryable" men, by societal standards.
    
    A lot is being written about more and more black women who are looking
    at the alternatives: marrying non-black men, which many of us have no
    interest in, marrying younger men, marrying men from different social
    strati, marrying men with less buying power. But these differences
    often bring stress to a marriage in and of themselves. Black people are
    frequently very conservative, and often work very hard to follow
    societal norms. Sometimes far more than the white people who made the
    rules to begin with, the same white people who have helped create such
    a sense of inferiority within the black race that the tendency to follow as
    many of the "white" rules as possible is a looming reality.
    
    Better stated, because we aren't white, we often go overboard in trying
    to prove our respectability, and our ability to follow white rules.
    
    Obviously, this topic is kinda personal for me. Society bombards me and
    my black women friends with rules about what the "right marriage
    partner" will be like... just black. But that doesn't fit the
    demographics of the black population. Simply put, the dichotomy creates
    a LOT of problems.
    

    A black friend told me of her search in singles/dating places (like
    Together and Lunchdates - you know - "club" type situations where they
    match you up), where the entire place had only 7-20 black males to 
    offer EACH.  Period.  That sounds like a dearth to me.
    
    -Jody
    

'ren, I think that the problems for black women might be similar in some ways
to the problems for Lesbians.

First off, there is the big issue of simple percentages.  In your daily life,
most of the people you meet are not black...and are not Lesbians.  This
is especially true for those of us in high-tech - for blacks, it is because,
as 'ren says, so few black men are in professional jobs - for Lesbians it is
because so few women are in technical positions.  You can try to compensate
by filling your social circles with people of the right stripe - get involved
with the Black or Lesbian communities - but then you end up with the "small
world" syndrome.  Everyone has dated everyone else, everyone knows everyone
else, and it seems like everyone I might be interested in is "taken".  It
sometimes feels like I have met every Lesbian in the Boston area and already
eliminated her as a potential partner - does this happen in the black communities
too?

Also, women of all stripes are bombarded with expectations about who they
will marry, that are set by the white male majority.  Even as we realize
that we are not *part* of that majority, and therefore the rules don't mean
much, they still affect us.  It is hard to just throw of a lifetime of societal
pressure. Things like the expectation that you won't marry accross class-
boundaries, etc...

Imagine life for a black lesbian... :-)

D!

[PS: Not to say all aspects of the situation are the same - there are big
diferences like the fact that all Lesbians are "potentials" for all other
Lesbians, whereas the only potentials for straight black women are *men*,
and also the conservative element you mentioned.]

    Sure it's slim pickens out there for me (white) but at least there's
    pickens.  I can relate to Lisa in that I am pickier than before, and
    that there probably is a limited amount of men that fit the
    requirements I want, but there are plenty of men to weed through who 
    are of the same level financially, and in class.  From what I gather
    the problem that black professional women have is much different.  They
    have a very limited number of professional men of the same level and
    race to even choose from.
    
    Kim

    Just so people don't understand, from my first response, I can really
    see where Lisa was coming from. There really ARE black professional men
    here! Unlike in many other areas. If there are going to be black
    professional technical people anywhere, makes sense they'd be in the
    technical meccas of America, like Rte 128. That's why it seems so crazy
    that there are still problems finding mates. Here in New England,
    compatibility plays a bigger part of the problem than it does in other
    areas where the women are even more desperate! :-) When I responded to
    Lisa's note, I just wanted to set the record straight about the
    national trend. I didn't watch the show. Most of my friends did. I
    didn't see any reason to watch something I had heard before.
    
    As to Jody's comment, I researched lunch dates and found the exact same
    thing, but I want the reason to be clear. It is NOT because the men
    don't exist. Its because they have no need to pay upwards from
    $300-$3000 to find women. 
    
    Don't get me wrong. NUPE::HAMPTON is certainly a gorgeous professional
    black man. They exist. Hamp's married though. (Darn!)
    
    The majority of my male friends are black. I firmly believe that if any
    of them REALLY wanted to be married, they would be. Several of them
    admit that they're having too much fun playing the field to be
    bothered. Others are terrified of commitment, even if they aren't
    "swingers". And some, like me, just haven't found Ms. Right. But the
    RANGE of women they date is very wide in terms of education, age,
    background, etc. Meanwhile, my female black friends are all trying to
    meet black professional men, with a range of interests to suit our
    personalities. And we're professional. The non-professional women also
    want a man who's made it, who's successful, who's financially "able".
    
    If all the women are looking at the same pool of men, those men have
    some fun choices ahead. And a lot of us women are going to get LEFT
    OUT. Combine that with the fact that there are many men who prefer not
    to date their professional peers, and that tells you WHICH OF US will
    get left out...
    
    And now I've really said enough.

    
    
    I wish I'd read Lisa's note....
    
    Anyway....  It seems here that black women seem to have a preference
    for dating/marrying black men.  Yet, in my experiences, I've found that
    many black men actually have a preference for dating white women
    (especially blondes).  
    
    Perhaps this has something to do with why there is a lack of
    "available" black men?  
    
    I really feel the need to say that it's not easy for "white women" to
    find men that they are compatible with either.  I get really tired when
    I hear from people over and over again "you could have anyone that you
    wanted!"  It's simply not true, there is NOT an "overabundance."  And
    even if there was, a decent percentage of the "white males" out there
    who are available are, basically, not worth my time.  I feel that many
    "white males" have an attitude that they were brought up with that I
    just don't prefer.
    
    It's not easy....for ANYONE....especially those of us that have been in
    the workplace for awhile, who are "grown up."
    
    I think society has engrained into our heads too often that race/colour
    of skin MATTERs.  Frankly, I don't think that it does.  For me,
    attraction comes from the inside and the colour of someone skin is
    irrelevant to that attraction.  (I also don't find a person's standing
    in society to be relevant either, but again, that's personal
    preference).
    
    No one has it easy finding someone......I think, though, that the
    people who put more and more restrictions on the physical attributes of
    the person they want to be with......are probably the more apt to be
    alone later in life.  I feel that if a person creates the atmosphere
    they expect to life in, then they must accept the consequences of that
    atmosphere (and the aloneness as well, if that is a result).
    
    kathy

    I'll add a few comments to the discussion of finding someone.  After
    years of looking I've decided I'm wasting my time trying to find
    someone.  My coupled friends remind me that I'll probably meet that
    special someone when I stop looking.  The friends also suggest that
    I keep focusing my energy on me and my growth.  
    
    I don't like when my friends remind me of this but deep inside I
    believe them.  I do know that putting awareness on my desire to find
    someone is tiresome and unproductive.  Besides, I can't find someone
    the same way I foud a new job, or a house, or a car, or all the other
    things I'm good at finding. 
    
    After many frustrating years I've come to the conclusion I do not know
    how to find someone.
    
    I have a button that says, "It's more important to BE the right person
    than to FIND the right person."
    
    I hate it!  :-)
    
    Nancy

    
    re. 13
    
    Nancy,
    
    I kind of believe in fate/destiny. (Can't you tell, I'm Chinese ;-))
    I think your friends are right. I think people meet their partners 
    in the least likely situations (when they are not actively looking). 
    Somehow I think people act differently (sometimes not very naturally) 
    when they have their antennas up. 
    
    I think as we "age", our inner selves become more important than
    our looks to attract. Some people have this happy, healthy aura
    around them and I think that's what a lot of people find attractive.
    
    The way I see it is - life is so short, just enjoy ourselves,
    with or without a partner. Partnership is not always rosy,
    once in a while, I wish I were single again. 
    
    
    
    Eva