| Title: | Topics of Interest to Women |
| Notice: | V3 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open. |
| Moderator: | REGENT::BROOMHEAD |
| Created: | Thu Jan 30 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Fri Jun 30 1995 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 1078 |
| Total number of notes: | 52352 |
I am posting this for a member of the community who wishes to remain
anonymous. Please note that this string is titled SRO - sensitive
responses only.
The following topic is titled FGD - for general discussion.
-Jody
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I always feel awkward when I talk about the times when I was taken
advantage of sexually. Of the four times that it happened only once was
intercourse involved. That instance I call date rape but there are
probably many people who would simply call it "a situation out of
control". The first time was with a Phd student who was a mentor to me.
I thought he was the most important person I would ever meet in my
life. I hung onto his every word. And I tried to do anything and
everything he ever told me to do because I was sure he knew what was
best for me and I wanted to be just like him. He abused me twice. In
both cases I could have said no but I never thought to question
anything he told me to do. Then I had to deal with being wrong.
The second time was with my best friend's ex. I knew I didn't feel any
attraction for him. He stopped by one evening when I was feeling very
depressed and it was nice to have company until I realized what his
agenda was. My own fear kept me from screaming. And I will go to my
grave living with my mistake. Supposedly, its not rape because I didn't
scream, or say no, or hit him or try to stop him.
My third time was with a soldier who I was stupid enough to flirt with.
He took me far away and told me I wasn't going to get home unless I did
what he wanted. And the last time was with a mentor on my job. Again,
someone who I trusted so completly that I felt he would never do
anything or tell me to do anything unless it would help me be a better
person. And again I was wrong.
All this happened when I was 16-19 years old. Above the age of consent
but far too immature to be able to handle what was happening. And it
has crippled me terribly.
Its taken me a while to figure out the damage. It certainly hasn't made
me afraid of sex. Instead it has made me unwilling to trust a guy who
won't spell out his agenda. I don't like to walk into things where
there isn't a game plan. Not with guys. I like to know what's going to
happen and if the guy doesn't have a plan, I'll make one. Too bad for
him if he doesn't like it. Nor should he ever try to surprise me. I'm
guaranteed to hate it.
This has become a problem. I guess I'm writing because I'd like some
gentle advice from people who can relate, people who suffered abuse
from those they trusted. I've begun to realize that I never learned
that its okay to say no and that guys will take no for an answer. I'm
scared half to death that they won't take no for an answer! So I walk
in with all of my "no"'s up front. And I expand myself into a big
monster determined to have my way so that I won't have to negotiate
anything. I think I'm afraid that as a girl if I try to negotiate with
a guy I'll automatically lose.
I'm wondering if anyone else out there has scars about trusting guys
and I'd like to know how they learned to overcome them.
I get the feeling that a lot of people will have a difficult time
relating to where I'm coming from and how I don't feel that my "no"
will be respected. I'd appreciated it if those people try to refrain
from calling me stupid or pitiful. Or tell me that I have no right to
claim any kind of survivor status from things that happened when I was
old enough to stop them, but didn't. I feel bad enough about this as it
is and I'd rather not have to feel worse.
Ann
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 780.1 | clarification | LEZAH::BOBBITT | dance, the storm is over | Mon Apr 22 1991 10:19 | 6 |
p.s. For those of you concerned with the basenoters anonymity, Ann is
not her real name. It's easier to direct comments at a named person,
though, so please use "Ann" when referring to her.
-Jody
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| 780.2 | ASDS::BARLOW | i THINK i can, i THINK i can... | Tue Apr 23 1991 15:31 | 53 | |
Ann,
I am very sorry you have had to go through all of those events.
I have had a couple of near misses like that too and I found that
a "no", sometimes backed up with a good right hook, worked. In
one case, no amount of screaming, hitting or saying "no" worked.
The first time was when it failed. I was 13 and just developing
breasts. My bust had just increased from nothing to a c cup in
6 months. (really fast) Anyways, the guys at school liked to
tease me cause my parents couldn't buy clothes fast enough to
keep up with my chest. So, in the middle of the cafeteria, 3 guys
cornered me, held me down and felt me up in front of the whole 8th
grade. Where the teachers were, I don't know. I screamed and tried
to punch. (Hard to do with your arms held.) So, I understand where
you're coming from.
The next time, I was 16 and I was out driving around with a guy
whom I was attracted to. He said he wanted to show me where he played
baseball in Little League. I believed him. We got to the field and
he basically jumped on me. I told him "no" but he kept trying so
I punched him and got out of the car. I yelled at him and told him
to "take me home right now!" He became very embarrassed and obeyed
me. I figured I had smacked some sense into him.
The last time, I was 17 and working a summer job. My boss had
a successful business man for a friend and I looked up to him.
(I wanted to be a business woman.) One day he cornered me in his
friends deli, where I worked. I punched him too. I grabbed my
purse and ran, crying to the bus stop.
What I'm trying to say is the following:
- I understand some of what you're feeling. To this day, I
sometimes freak if my husband grabs both my arms and we're wrestling.
(we wrestle sometimes for fun and he teaches me moves.)
I'm sure other women understand too.
- While "no" doesn't always work, sometimes it does. Had I not
said "no" and followed it up with a punch, I can only guess what would
have happened.
- I also understand your laying the rules out ahead of time.
When I was first dating my husband, I point-blank told him what was
NOT going to happen on our date. (Of course we were sharing a motel
room, so I wanted to be REAL clear.)
Next time, I would suggest saying "no". When I'm afraid to say
something, I just say it in my head over and over until I can finally
say it. You could even try saying "no" about non-sexual things, if
you don't already.
Good luck. All men aren't like the ones you've run into. Most
men, I don't think, would pursue an unwilling person, vocal or
non-vocal.
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| 780.3 | Ummm...clarification? | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Tue Apr 23 1991 18:55 | 45 |
Ann,
I am unclear...well I wasn't unclear until I read .2...but now I am.
At the end of .2, the noter responds that they don't think that most
men would puruse and unwilling partner...[I agree with that, btw]...
but I got the distinct impression from .0 that you have given no
verbal or nonverbal signs to these [men? boys?] that you _are/were_
unwilling.
If my impression is wrong...you can just trash the rest of this
response, because it is based on that impression.
Certainly I can relate to your predicament. I can even applaud you for
actually _seeing_ it...it must have taken unbelievable amounts of
courage and patience to be able to see that in oneself! Bravo!
I have only one observation...and it may be so obvious that it is
unhelpful. People [men included] are social animals...we depend on
signals that we receive to tell whether to forge ahead or back off.
And, although I have a personal opinion about a mentor who would use
his or her position to parley sexual favors, it is just that, a
_personal_ opinion. The fact of the matter is...from my read of your
base note...that you gave little indication ot these men that you did
not want their attentions...so how would they know? [well, common sense
would have helped a couple of them...but you know what I mean.]
However, I think you are beating up on yourself too much about your
perceived lack of action...and perhaps _that_ is more of a problem than
your feelings about men. In other words...it's sort of like..."Sh*t, I
didn't say no then. but I won't make that mistake again!" and now you
say no all over the place...at every possible provocation.
Understandable? Absolutely! Don't be so hard on yourself. Forgive
yourself for being timid...forgive yourself for overreacting in the
opposite direction...then try 'explaining' it to a guy you really like.
Just like you did here. I bet you will be surprised by the reaction of
a guy when you are honest with him. Then he could help you back away
from the behavior...with understanding...rather than be non-plussed by
it and perhaps hurt.
My 25 cents worth...but your exchange rate may differ.
Melinda
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