Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    The TSS scare didn't affect me, much.  I just continued to use tampons,
    but made sure to use the good old fashioned all cotton (well mostly
    cotton ones).  Still use 'em at night too.  I've heard of people
    switching to pads at night, and was surprised.  Am I in the minority?
    I personally don't feel I'm taking much risk, but maybe I'm just
    ignorant.
    
    Mary

    I knew someone who had TSS; that may be why I took it a bit more
    seriously. Also, sis the doctor says that letting the cavity breathe is
    important. So, at night, I let my cavity breathe... :-)

    I don't use tampons much anymore, the thin maxi pads are pretty
    invisible when you wear 'em (and they've got wings now too!  pretty
    funny ad campaign but they do stop leakage).  I found tampons tended to
    increase my likelihood to get yeast infections.  I still use them
    sometimes, though....although I use a smaller size than I used to since
    they warned women to use the smallest size possible that will do the
    job to reduce the chance of TSS....
    
    Was there any word on whether or not the contraceptive sponge
    contributed to TSS with its artificial fibers, and the fact that it
    (last I looked) could stay in up to 24 hours?
    
    -Jody
    

    I hate pads, they never stay put.  Tampons work well for me.  I
    buy the kind that come in three sizes and keep all three sizes around
    so I always (usually) have the right absorbancy.
    
    It IS important to make sure not only that it is big enough to prevent
    leaks but also small enough so it doesn't dry you out.  OUCH.
    
    I sleep with a tampon in but usually have to get up in the middle
    of the night to change the darn thing.  When I don't really need
    one, I don't sleep with one in.  
    
    According to my gynecologist, the sponge is not very effective birth
    control and is linked to TSS.
    
    RE: .2 Letting it breathe -- why can't a woman ever get good CPR
    when she really needs it?  ;^)  ;^) ;^)
    
       Margaret (who knows she ought to hang her head in shame but is
                 grinning too much to do so.)

    Well, since people are getting personal about their tampon and pad
    choices, I can't stand tampons.  I hate the way they feel.  They always
    make me feel like I have to go to the bathroom constantly. :-)  So, I
    always use pads and I don't mind them - much more comfortable than
    feeling like I have to go to the bathroom all the time!
    
    Lorna
    

    I don't use tampons because I have trouble getting them out. Has anyone
    else had this problem? Am I doing something wrong? 
    
    m

    RE: .6   
    
    Probably nothing wrong but not quite right either.
    
    The angle of the string is a factor, pull back at an angle
    as well as out.  Relaxing is also important, muscles keep
    it in sometimes too well. Make sure you are using the right 
    absorbency so you don't keep it in for more than 3 - 4 hours but
    it is still soaked enough to come out easily.       
    
    I had a dickens of a time learning how to use tampons but it was
    worth it.  I was a swimmer as a teen and you can't win a swim meet
    with a pad.  Now I have the added bonus of being able to stow a
    bunch of OB tampons in my jeans pocket so I don't have to carry
    a pocketbook to the bathroom.
    
    I keep thinking of the wonderful cartoon in Ms. #3 about the two
    girls who learn to use tampons for the first time...
    
      Margaret

    Manisha,
    
    The only time I ever had trouble getting one out was when I put it
    in backwards with the string the wrong way around! :-( But women
    are built differently and that may explain your problem.
    
    I have to use both a tampon and a pad the 2nd and 3rd days of my
    period both day and night... bleh! but at least it is short, hardly
    ever past a 4th day.
    
    The flow is the result of having gotten fibroids as I've gotten 
    older.
    
    Bonnie

    re: .7
    
    So...I'm waiting...what about the two girls who...
    
     :-)
    
    (I remember back at camp in the good ol' days -- our
    best swimmer didn't use tampons, and the swim meet was
    later that day!  We locked her in the latrine until she
    was, um, ready.  Extra incentive:  that was the outdoor,
    hole-in-the-ground, no plumbing, SMELLY type of latrine.)
    
    	Pennie

    No, no. I've never put it in backwards. Yuch, that would be awful.
    Basically, I have to really pull the string and bear down and push.
    It's just not as easy as changing a pad. And I try it every so often
    only because I like to swim and cannot with a pad.
    
    manisha

re: a few back, not being able to get them out...

Using a "slender" helps.  Also, some brands tend to balloon out.  Those can be
*majorly* uncomfortable when it comes time to remove them.  Using a brand such
Tampax Regular or Slender should alleviate that problem.

    re: trouble removing tampons
    
    Here are a couple of suggestions I've given before:
    
    One of the problems with removal (although some women have
    trouble with insertion for the same reason) is that the
    absorbent material *works*.  That is, it dries out the
    vaginal canal.  Then, especially if the tampon is not fully
    soaked when removed, one has the problem of a pulling dry
    cotton across dry mucous membranes.  For practice, you might
    try applying some KY jelly when inserting the tampon, and thus
    get more lubrication upon removal.
    
    Contact me by mail for more hints if you would like them.
    
    Good luck

Geez, isn't this the sort of topic we are only supposed to talk about
with no MEN around?  :-)  All you men: close your eyes.  :-)

I wear tampons longer than I should - usually for about 8 hours at
a time.  It is a bad habit... I do, however, usually wear pads at night.
Like someone said earlier, to "let the cavity breath."

Jody - if all you need are those thin pads, you must have a very light
flow!  I would go through one of those in about 3 and a half minutes!!

Has anyone else thought about the affect of pads and tampon in the environment?
I would guess that pads are made out of the same stuff as diapers 
(sodium polyacrylate)...and many tampons have those plastic applicators.
I saw an article on TV last summer about this artist fellow in P-town who
collects tampon-applicators on the beach to make a point about...what,
pollution???

D!

[PS: This reminds me of those silly "personal" commercials on TV...those
ones where the daughter says "Mom, how do *you* stay fresh?"  What exactly
is "staying fresh" anyway???  What, as opposed to spoiled?!?]

    I prefer tampons, both for day and night wear.  To resolve having to
    change in the middle of the night, I use the super-plus style during
    the heaviest time.  I've never had a problem with TSS.  Possibly this
    is due to changing frequently (except at night).
    
    Barb

    I also prefer tampons.  I think they're more comfortable.  Also,
    they don't take up as much room in my pocketbook as pads would.
    
    Lori B.
    
    P.S.  I have a whole box of pads (the kind you need a belt for)
    left over from when I had my son, does anyone want them?  Send me
    mail if so.

    .6 (m?) try a different brand.  There's one that has a shape that just
    doesn't seem to agree with mine, and it actually hurts to take it out,
    even when it has done its duty, sotospeak.
    
    I've tended to stay away from the super-absorbant variety in general,
    because of tss.  Sometimes I need them, but I'd rather use a tampon and
    a sticky-backed pad.  (Sometimes those pads are like taking a bandaid
    off your arm, though, y'know? ouch!)
    
    Sara
    
    p.s. anybody else hate the plastic "applicators"?  they should be
    banned

    I get a progresive parenting magazine called "Mothering."  The latest
    issue has an article on making (and using) cloth pads to reuse with
    each period.  There is also a company that makes cotton reusable pads
    of the non seamstresses among us. 
    
    I'm trying my best to be environmentally conscious, but I don't think
    I'm ready for this yet.  It's bad enough when I have an "accident" and
    need to wash up my clothes.
    
    If anyone wants more information, let me know.  
    
    judy

    Judy
    
    you realize of course, that until the early 20th century resuable
    cloth pads are what women used for thousands of years, when they
    weren't using tanned fur, leaves, moss, etc instead..
    
    of course, most women of child bearing age were either pregnant
    or nursing most of their reproductive years, so it wasn't the
    sort of problem that we have now.
    
    Bonnie

    re: .17
    
      >> that makes cotton reusable pads of the non seamstresses among
    		us.
    
    
    PRACTICE THOSE SEWING LESSONS, STAT!
    
    	Pennie

    >I'd rather use a tampon and a sticky-backed pad.  (Sometimes those pads
    >are like taking a bandaid off your arm, though, y'know? ouch!)
    
    Sara,
    
    You're supposed to use them with the sticky side away from you :-)
    
    Mary

    Re: trouble getting them out
    
    When I was a virgin I had trouble getting tampons out (I'll spare you
    the details), but since then no problem.   Try sneezing.  Sometimes
    works for me when I least expect it :-)
    
    Mary

    OK, ok, while we're on the subject of what to use and how to use it. 
    Someone mentioned a few back about a commercial that says" Mom how DO you
    stay fresh?"  Reply, I Douch.  Ok, How many of you do Douch?  The reason
    I ask is....ok, I don't.  Probably because I don't know much about it
    and really don't know too many women who do to ask questions about it. 
    I mean yes, I can read the box, but its not the same as asking
    someone's first hand experience....  So I'm asking; 
    
    1. what is it, and why?
    
      

    Douching is when a woman washes out her vagina with some cleansing
    solution. the simplest of these are based on vinegar and water.
    Some women douche after their period or after intercourse.

    In general, however, douching is not necessary. The vagina does
    an excellent job of cleansing itself. I've always thought that
    such ads preyed on women's feelings that they are 'not nice'
    'down there'.

    In fact, too frequent douching can upset the natural vaginal flora
    and *cause* problems to develop where none existed before. I recall
    when I was first teaching college a young woman, recently married
    who washed herself internally with soap and water (!) after
    marital relations and developed a sore on her cervix.

    Bonnie

    I only douche for yeast infections, and that is plain vinegar and
    water, and only if yogurt hasn't worked first.  I think there's a
    graphic description somewhere in here on how to get yogurt inside, so I
    won't go into that.
    
    Other than that, the vagina is, as Bonnie said, a self cleaning
    orifice, so, why bother.
    
    Meg 

    >*gasp*<
    
    I don't either.
    
    I remember my amusement when Herbal flavored douches appeared on the
    market in the 70s.
    
    Sara

    Mary Maling, you are too much!   
    
    

    my primary care doctor told me she didn't like tampons that were
    wider than they were long.  it was her experience that women
    had more problems with those (i.e. - difficulty removing them).
    
    When I asked her about douching she said "a little soap and water
    goes a long way!" She suggested using only the vinegar & water
    types if you felt you must.
    
    Personal, I think douches are some madison avenue-type's hangup.
    (As well as a means to $$$$$).
    
    Linda
    
    
    Remember those sprays that were so heavily marketed a few years back?
    Spare me!
    
    :omda
    

    I'll try to say this fairly discreetly:
    
    I frequently douche when I want to remove fluids that *I* didn't put up
    there. Yes, the system cleans itself naturally, but I'm not always
    interested in *waiting* for the system to clean itself with plain ole'
    gravity! And I prefer to have some control about where the cleansed
    by-products go.
    
    I own douche apparati and make my own vinegar/water mix. I guess I'm
    cheap. But hey, I also get to control the water temperature that way!
    :-)

    Tampax brand tampons do not have plastic applicators.

    I guess I really goofed by using the wrong preposition.
    
    I'll get out my sewing machine tonight!
    
    What a nice laugh for me this morning.
    
    judy

    Gee, I always thought that "douchebag"  was a deragatory term.  =)
    (Sorry, I picked that one up in high school)
    
    As for wide vs. long tampons.....I can't wear the long ones (like
    tampax) because they stick out the end and irritate.  I've been using
    the OB type for years and I've never had a problem getting them out. 
    And I like the fact that they have no applicators.
    
    The commercial that really galls me is that Summer's Eve one where they
    have that woman fantasizing about the beach.  I don't understand what
    connection there could be with the beach and "feminine hygeine", maybe
    I'm just stupid.
    
    Lisa

    Right on, E - I was laughing at Mary's "sneeze" comment too!  
    
    All I can say is "I've been there".....
    
    -Jody
    

    re .31, maybe she did it on the beach and got sand up there? !!!
    
    I've always thought of douching as being really weird and have never
    done it.  Once I was over a close friend's house and noticed a box of
    "stuff" to douche with and I looked at her in horror and said, "You
    actually *douche*?!!!?" and she looked back in horror and said, "You
    *don't*?!!!?"   :-)
    
    Personally, I think that the stick-on sanitary napkins, along with
    panty hose, are two of the greatest inventions of my life so far!
    
    Lorna
    

    I consider myself fairly environmentally conscious. I have cut down my
    driving. I recycle paper, glass and plastic. I've become a vegetarian
    (almost). But using cotton pads - no way!
    
    Thanks for all the info. I think my problem is being too dry. Now if
    only I could learn to sneeze voluntarily ;-).
    manisha

    
    re: sneezing...
    
      kate clinton has a very funny routine that incorporates this
    phenomena... something about warp speed projectiles, i think.
    
    (-:
    
    ~robin

    Manisha, if you are able to use the ones without applicators, you can
    smear them with Vaseline. My mom used something like OB years ago and
    swore by them. She told me to lubricate them myself if I needed to.

    re. -2
    
    Even funnier, robin, is her routine about discussing "first tampon 
    insertion stories.  We'll start over here on this side of the room 
    and by the time we get over to here, you can make something up!"
    "...(reading the instructions) place your foot up on the edge of
    the tub or the seat.  Take a deep breath.  Now, look at the diagram
    and find the correct...", well, use you imagination or listen to her
    first album--be prepared to roll on the floor. :-) :=)
    
    
    
    Debbi

For the environmentally inclined, sea sponges are great. I use them exclusively
and they are washable and reusable. Several companies now make pads and tampons
from recycled paper without the bleaching.

I ride horses quite a lot and long hours in the saddle wearing a pad were quite
painful. Talk about getting raw. With the sponges I actually forget sometimes
that it's my period. They don't dry out so they don't hurt when you remove them.
I had that happen once with a tampon and haven't used one since. I don't need 
that grief.

If you aren't squeemish about touching yourself or your body fluids then I
highly recommend sponges. They are great for out in the woods. No disposal
problem, just a water rinse and you can reinsert though generally a fresh sponge
is better. I keep them with me in a small woven basket that lets them air dry
after they are rinsed. I'd recommend putting them in a stocking bag and tossing 
them in the washer periodically (I couldn't resist :*)) liesl

    
    You've probably already said this in a previous version of =wn=, but 
    where on earth do I find these sponges?  I've seen what I think are 
    sea sponges in the cosmetics aisles of stores (I guess for putting 
    on/washing off makeup) are these ok?  How large should they be?  (Lemon
    sized, tangerine, orange...grapefruit?)
    
    CQ

    CQ,
    
    The women's health clinic in Colorado Springs used to sell the
    apropriate size, however they are currently closed.  If I remember
    correctly they were cosmetic type sea sponges and about the size of a
    large plum.
    
    Meg

    re .38, I've never heard of this before!!
    
    Lorna
    

I'm skeptical.  I've used sponges for more mundane purposes (cosmetic, cleaning
etc) and they aren't all that absorbent. I expect I would go through a sponge
in about an hour during my heaviest flow...how does it work for you,
Leisl?

D!

    
    Well Lorna, you just weren't paying attention.   Or maybe I read it 
    in some other notesfile.  :-) (BTW, my Tai Chi class is going just 
    swell, Liesl.)
    
    D! maybe you and I need the grapefruit size.  
    
    I think the only thing I'm worried about is that maybe sea sponges
    destined for cosmetics removal have been washed in/inpregnated by 
    something yukky.  Maybe I'm just paranoid.   
    
    CQ

    
    RE: sea sponges
    I've been looking for these in the UK ever since I read about them
    in a wmns holistic health book about eight years ago. The book
    also had a pattern for making a pad-cover and belt for holding
    in place a sponge "towel"...if you like.
    I couldn't imagine quite how that works.
    I mean, if you use a sponge in place of a towel i.e. it's held on
    like a towel, doesn't it squish when you sit on it?
    
    And the other question I've wanted to ask for years (and I'm so
    pleased it's in this topic).....
    
    
     What is "douche equipment"?
    I've never even seen it - let alone used it.
    Here in the UK if you see "douche" on the side of something it's
    usually European shower gel - "douche" is French for shower.
    I did get up the nerve to ask once in the chemist.....the young lass
    behind the counter didn't understand what I wanted and got an
    older woman to help. She leaned over the counter and told me in
    hushed tones that I "would need to speak to the doctor about getting
    one of those".
    
    One of those WHAT?
    What do you DO with this vinegar and water, or whatever??
    
    Ignorant of the UK
    

    It's for washing your "inner privates" with a fluid solution.
    
    A douche bag is like a hot water bottle with a nozzle.  The nozzle
    screws on and off, general size of the bag is 16 ounces.  The nozzle is
    about 5-6" long and about 1/2" in diameter and has several tiny holes
    at the far end.  You fill it with solution, lie down in the tub or sit
    over a toilet, insert the nozzle, and squeeze VERY VERY gently (don't
    want to force air in there).  You can get 'em at most drug stores for
    maybe $5 over here.  Wash them with soap and hot water after use, and
    let them dry thoroughly before storing them (some people say boil them
    after use to sterilize them).
    
    -Jody

    
    Re -1
    
    Thanks for the graphic answer Jody - I honesty had no idea....
    I cannot understand why this equipment is not more readily available
    over here. 
    
	'gail

    'gail
    
    We can also buy premixed packaged douches in almost any drug
    store/pharmacy. These are sealed plastic bags of mixture (commonly
    vinegar and water) with a separate nozzle. One breaks the seal
    on the bag and attaches the disposable nozzle to use.
    
    Bonnie

    
    Bonnie...
    
    Have you ever thought of setting up an export business?? ;-)
    'gail

    Not really ;-) maybe we should send mail? ;-)
    
    Bonnie

               <<< Note 717.20 by IE0010::MALING "Mirthquake!" >>>

    >>I'd rather use a tampon and a sticky-backed pad.  (Sometimes those pads
    >>are like taking a bandaid off your arm, though, y'know? ouch!)
    
    >Sara,
    
    >You're supposed to use them with the sticky side away from you :-)
    
    >Mary
    
    
    Oh sure!  Yet *another* thing my mother never told me!!!      (*8
    
    
    'course, it *could* be a whole new way to get a 
    
    bikini wax!
    
    
    
    E Grace

    re. .46
    
    I am only speaking from memory but I am fairly certain that douche
    equipment is difficult - if not impossible - to get hold of in the UK
    because douching is an unnecessary and potentially lethal procedure. I
    don't know if there have been any reported cases of deaths caused by 
    accidentally forcing air up the vaginal passage (I don't know of any), 
    but such an action can be fatal. 
    
    And as someone has already pointed out, I think, the vagina is a very
    effective self-cleansing part of the body. Douching can upset the
    natural balance and cause more problems than it is supposed to solve.
    
    Helen 

    ???air in the vagina can kill you???

    
    It is my understanding that Americans are more hygiene/clean/fresh/
    buy-a-product-that-improves-your-smell oriented than any other culture
    in the world. Not that others don't have perfumes, but I feel that our
    capitalistic free enterprise system, combined with our Madison Avenue
    high-priced hard sell marketing and advertising agencies have convinced
    us that if we don't smell a certain way from head to toe, we will have
    problems.
    
    This is evidenced by various anti-perspirant ads which emphasize being
    able to raise your arm in stressful situations without any underarm
    stains, as well as douche ads which talk about "freshness", deoderant
    soaps which show close male-female encounters at weddings where that
    first impression, so important, includes how you smell!
    
    With all of this thrown at us, its small wonder that someone saw a
    market for "deoderizing" the menstrual process. We have douches,
    sprays, wipes, deoderant tampons, deoderant panty liners, etc.
    
    One of the interesting things that is HARD to find in the US is a
    bidet, which I understood to be an insert for your toilet/urinal which
    allowed you to wash and rinse your crotch like a mini-bath. Because its
    a buy-it-once-and-reuse type item, its small wonder it doesn't sell
    here. We like reuseable, disposable items that require repeated
    spending. Or rather, that's what someone wants us to like!
    
    Douching infrequently is not dangerous, but it is wrong to mess with
    the pH of the vaginal cavity, and this is why the vinegar/water
    solution is best. Medicated douches are often prescribed for getting
    rid of infections. That may be why you had to ask your doctor.
    

    Re: air in the vagina
    
    Sara, that's my reaction, too.  Air blown up the vagina during
    pregnancy can kill the fetus.  But, hey I've never heard anything
    about it killing the woman.  What gives?
    
    Mary

    When you say "blown" what do you mean? How forceful?
    
    The cavity breathes constantly. Mine even burps from time to time! So I
    KNOW there's air in there. And the act of intercourse MUST be
    compressing whatever air is already present. What could be worse than
    that?

    I *think* but I'm not sure, that it is possible to force air into
    a blood vessel in the uterus especially at the time of mensturation
    when the endometrium is shedding and the air can cause an emobolism
    in the blood stream.
    
    This is however, a vague memory and a  bit of a guess, so don't
    quote me!
    
    Bonnie

    I think there's a bit of confusion here.  I sincerely doubt that air in
    the vagina can kill anybody.  Maybe it's the womb we are really talking
    about?  I can imagine that air forced up through the cervix into the
    uterus could cause infection once in a while.  During pregnancy, the
    cervix is normally sealed with a mucus plug; if it is disturbed then I
    can see danger to the baby from infection, from loss of the fluid that
    normally bathes the baby and placenta (ie, the water that comes out
    when the "water breaks" -- I missed that experience, thankfully!).
    
    Sara

    > Mine even burps from time to time!

    I was wondering when someone would get around to mentioning that.  Oh,
    the fun we used to have in college :-)

    Mary

It is generally a bad idea to force air into any bodily orifice.   It is
really only dangerous forcing air into the *uterus*, though, not the
vagina.   It seems to me (and I am not sure because I have never douched)
that it would be damn hard to force air through the cervical openning and
into the uterus with a douche.

As 'ren pointed out, simple intercourse is a lot more forceful pushing air
into the vaginal cavity than any douche procedure would be.  If that doesn't
cause a uterine embolism, I doubt douching would.

As I understand it, the danger of douching is simply messing up the natural
PH of the system so that you are more prone to yeasties and other nasties.

Remember the old "douche with coke after sex" to prevent pregnancy?  :-)
There is actually a tiny bit of truth to that rumour (the coke probably 
isn't healthy for the sperm) but putting sugar inside you is a quick route
to a *nasty* infection, as well as the minor fact that most pregnancies
happen immediately after intercourse...

D!

    > as well as the minor fact that most pregnancies
    > happen immediately after intercourse...
    
    D!
    
    What you say about the ineffectiveness of douching for preventing
    pregnancy is true.  But, it takes a couple hours for the sperm to
    reach the falopian tube, and if the egg isn't there the sperm can
    just hang out there for up to three days waiting for an egg.  The
    egg is "fertilizable" for a period of only about 24 hours.
    
    Of course none of this applies to teenaged girls who can get pregnant
    by standing downwind from a teenaged boy. :-)
    
    Mary

    Mary
    
    I went to an all women's college but don't recall having fun with
    'burping' ! ;-) just what sort of school did *you* go to! ;-) x 100.
    
    Bonnie

    An engineering school, of course!

    Re: .51, .57 and all
    
    The presence of air in the vagina is not a problem, other than
    drying the natural mucus.  The _forcing_ of air into the vagina
    is hazardous because it can enter the uterus and travel via 
    the tubes into the abdominal cavity.  The same is true for
    fluid (water or others) under pressure!  The result in both cases
    could be abdominal infection or embolism.  Most of the stories
    about this I've heard involve pranks with HIGH pressure air
    hoses used to blow dust off the floor or work surfaces.
    
    Allison

    
    I love the freedom of this topic - so much knowledge between us....
    
    For me, the issue here is choice.
    
    If a wmn feels the urge/need to douche, then she should be able to
    get the equipment to do so.
    
    For myself, I agree that it's not something I'd want to do often
    as a response to media pressure or whatever - I agree that it could
    upset pH balance. But if you *already* have a problem (like
    a vaginal bug of some sort) I would like to be able to consider curing 
    it using a douche to rebalance the pH or whatever.....I don't appreciate 
    having that choice restricted.
    
    Re: bidets
    
    I wondered when this would get mentioned :-)
    The only bidets I know of, in the UK or Europe (which I think invented
    them) are pretty permanent. They are basically like a toilet
    but lower, and with taps, like a conveniently shaped sink, and they
    are permanently installed/plumbed in - usually next to the toilet.
    I have never seen a convertable bidet of any sort.
    I hope to have one one day.....such convenience! :-)
    
    
    

    I've seen portable bidets advertised in one of the many mail-order
    catalogs that come to my home.  They're usually in the section that
    includes seats for the bath tub that help the elderly take showers,
    safety rails for the bath and shower, etc.  Guess maybe the catalog
    designers consider bidets to be a product for the elderly or the
    infirm.  8-}
    
    Karen

    
    Mary, please explain about the fun of burping in college. I always
    thought it was me, and its something I HATE explaining every time a new
    partner comes along. Its probably one of the things that keeps me
    celibate!
    
    As for bidets... my mom had one. I thought it was terrific, because it
    let me wash the only thing that I really thought was getting a bit
    dirty, rather than putting my whole body in a bathtub. (I have very dry
    skin and HATE getting it wet; that just dries it out more.) It had an
    oval recess and a 5" rim, so that upside down, it looked like an
    oversized cowboy hat, and it sat on the rim of the toilet. You just
    fill it with water, wash up, then dump the water into the toilet and
    remove.
    
    No air jets, though. And I've never heard of anyone putting an air jet
    into the vaginal cavity. Most people I know use them, and flexible
    shower heads, to excite the external tissue.

    'ren -
    
    The "portable bidet" that you describe sounds alot like something
    I was given by the hospital after the birth of my son.  I think
    they called it a Sitz bath...used to relieve labial swelling after
    childbirth, in this case.
    
    Carol

    re: .69
    
>     It seems to me that "freshness" has to do with the point at
>    which bacteria cease to be "background" and become, instead, noticeably
>    "foreground."  
    
    Yes, and this point is entirely culturally determined.  What is
    offensive (or feared to be offensive) is what each of us was
    raised to perceive as offensive.  In an age when bathing once a
    week was pretty much standard, offense started at odors greater
    than those that accumulated in a week; when bathing occurred once
    a year, offense started much later.  
    
    One of the more amusing incidents of this is John of Salisbury's
    complaint (from ca. 625 AD) that the Vikings (mostly Danish),
    because they were in the habit of taking saunas, were seducing the
    chaste matrons of Britain.  
    
    On the other hand, diaries of British sailors from the 17th
    century record their feeling that the frequent bathing by Japanese
    and Chinese men indicated effeminacy. 
    
    It seems that there's always a strong connection between bathing
    habits and sexuality, though it's not a consistent one.
    
    --bonnie

    > Mary, please explain about the fun of burping in college.
    
    Well, OK, but its embarassing to admit I actually did stuff like this.
    We used vaginal "burping" as an amusement in much the same way people
    amuse each other with such exciting activities as armpit farting.
    True confession: I can fart with the backs of my knees :-)
    
    Mary

    re .70, my goodness, you must've been a rather *immodest* crew! :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    re: .70
    
    I never could learn how to do that.  Guess my knees are too fat or
    something . . .
    
    --bonnie

    thanks bonnie, I never thought of it as a talent :-)
    
    And, Lorna, we did it with our clothes on and no men present, gross
    but not imodest :-)
    
    Mary

    re .73, with clothes on?  Oh, I wouldn't have thought it would even be
    noticeable with clothes on.  How loud could it be?  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    I had a childhood friend who could do vaginal farts at will.
    That's how we'd spend the half an hour between Sunday School 
    and church.  I repeatedly tried, but to no avail.  Mine are 
    strictly involuntary.
    
    Carla
    

Well, this conversation is certainly going to make a lot of men think twice! 
Next, they're going to find out we sweat too. :*) I thought everyone knew that
*ladies* don't have bodily functions!!!! Much less burp on demand!

Anyway, back a few. Yes, cosmetic sea sponges will work OK. That was mentioned
in the handout I got at the women's clinic. I cut the sponges I got to be about
the size of a soaked tampon. The only day I have to use a sponge for less than
8 hours at a times is the first day of my period. And even then it held a lot.

I was also told that diaphrams and cervical caps could be used though they must
be emptied throughout the day. 

As an aside, since I've increased my walking to an hour a day at least 4 times
a week, my flow has decreased, and so have my migraines. I don't know for sure
that it's connected but...liesl

    I didn't get through all the answers yet.
    
    A couple things - problems removing, stay away from the type that
    baloon and use the slender and change more frequently.
    
    TSS - I had a very severe infection about 7 months ago, not TSS though. 
    At the time I used to use tampons ALL the time.  I always worried about
    discharge and smells etc.  I would douche regularly (at least twice a
    week) and wear panty liners and stilled worried so I would pop in a
    tampon.  However, I always was aware that I needed to breath and I wore
    nothing at night except a pad when needed.  Well after spending 7 days
    litterally flat on my back in the most agonizing pain I learned.  My
    entire system was totally inflammed.  Sunday morning I work up and
    couldn't sit up in bed without my husband's help, later in the day I
    called the DR because it was just getting worse - felt like the muscles
    in the lower part of my stomach (reminded me of after my C-section) he
    said I must have pulled the muscles picking something up.  Strange huh?
    My Aunt came over that day and I told her what was wrong she didn't
    think it was muscles, but did not want to scare me.  At 2:30 in the
    Morning Monday I woke Ron up because I couldn't stand the pain from my
    waist down.  At the emergency room the DR finally decided to do an
    internal exam when poking around at my stomach did not reveal what was
    wrong.  Before he did more than touch me on the outside I was ready to
    scream in pain.  The internal felt like someone put a fire inside me.  
    
    A few days later I went to my gyn and she linked everything to
    prolonged tampon use.  I stayed off tampons for about 3 months to allow
    my body to heal completely.  Now I only use the slender tampons and I
    change them every 2-3 hours and only use them during my period.  We
    have to learn some hard lessons.                                     

    re: Sea Sponges & douching
    
    Call Girls/Working Girls/Escorts/Hookers use sea sponges during their
    moontime.  Generally they can't afford to take a 4-7 day vacation once
    a month.  
    
    Douching is a daily event, if they've worked.  They alternate between 
    cold-pressed applecider vinagar (2-3 tsps) & water (regular sized - 2qt.) 
    (you taste sweet) or alum (1/4 tsp) & water (again, regular 2qt.) to 
    tighten the muscles (be careful with the alum, you could wind up not 
    being able to remove the nozzel until you fill the bag back up with plain 
    warm water a few times and let that run through).
    
    Miriam 

    re: .77
    
    Liesl, how does that compare to how often you'd have to change a
    tampon?  I'd like to try them but I'm wary since I have very heavy
    flow (I can go through the no-longer-available OB super-plus's in
    about two to four hours). 
    
    --bonnie

    
    I'm due sometime soon and hope to have found & some sponges for a trial
    run.  I'll let y'all know how they work.
    
    CQ

Bonnie, I can't really compare between tampons and sponges since it's been years
since I last used tampons. I'd say just try them on a non work day and see how
they work for you. 

I've been trying to find the information the women's clinic handed out on
sponges but I can't locate it. If I find it I'll type it in. liesl