Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    Oh...so in other words we'll be seeing another EXCISE TAX.  
    
    Isn't our Excise Tax a TAX from either WWI or WWII that was suppose
    to have been lifted after the WAR was over?  As usual...Good Ol' MA
    never repealed it.
    
    Take more money from me...
    
    Carol                     
    

Maybe all the people who think this war is "a good thing" or "the right thing to 
do" could make a voluntary payment to the government to support the war.  

 Would that (literally) be a case of "putting your money where your mouth is"?

 Or do y'all think the war is a great idea as long as you don't have to die in
it, pay for it or otherwise support the war other than verbally?  Think about
it.

 Actually, this started off as a somewhat sarcastic note (inspired by the recent
tone of certain notes in this and other conferences), but you know, its not a 
bad idea.  I'm sure that Bush, the Administration and even the troops would
get a real kick out of it. And imagine Saddam Hussein's reaction to a news item
that "Americans sent $<large number> to the White House in voluntary support of 
the war in Iraq".

					Nigel

	To help alleviate the hardships of dependants of Combatants.

    To quote Dave Barry (columnist from Miami Herald)
    
    ........"so far Western Europe has donated tons of potato salad and
    the Japanese have chipped in with some really nice sun visors"
    
    true satire.
    
    time to re-write the Japanese constitution....how convenient for
    them...and they use more oil than we do.  HMMMMM 

 >>........"so far Western Europe has donated tons of potato salad and
  >>  the Japanese have chipped in with some really nice sun visors"
    

	The U.K. is a part of western Europe and 

we have just lost our 5th Aircraft

and as a 5th rate power these losses hurt apart from the butchers bill!

You G**** Y**** had better not make such sweeping statements! or I'll
get sensitive!!!!!!


		

    
    What about the problems this country has at home, that we're not going
    to be able to get to as long as there's a war on...do these figure into
    the cost?
    
    D.

    ABC news last nite presented a pie chart of who is picking up the tab
    for this Gulf War: USA pays for 1/3 of the cost, Kuwait and Saudi
    Arabia are responsible for 1/3, and the allies share the last 1/3.
    

    RE:  .3
    
    There are many American's who are putting there money where their
    mouths are.  Whether it be be by contributing $'s to the familys of the
    people in the middle east, by donating blood for our soldiers, etc...
    
    On second thought, .3 doesn't even deserve the courtesy of a response.
    
    Kel

    
>    ........"so far Western Europe has donated tons of potato salad and
>    the Japanese have chipped in with some really nice sun visors"
>    
>    true satire.
    
 
	And there I was, thinking the Americans were a different culture, and 
	didn't understand satire.

	And here is an example that prooves the point....this has nothing to 
	do with satire, satire is used to expose follies or vices.
	
	The number of ground troops, RAF personnel, and Tornado jets that we 
	have in combat , and have lost in combat, can in no way be likened 
	to "potato salad".

	Heather	

    I would like it to cause the thought "But it isn't funny!  This
    is different!" followed by the realization, "Oh.  It isn't funny
    when my ox is gored.  So it isn't funny when someone else's ox
    is gored.  I've been trying to have it both ways."
    
    					Ann B.

            <<< MOMCAT::PIGGY:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V3.NOTE;3 >>>
                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
================================================================================
Note 1.28                           Welcome!                            28 of 28
REGENT::BROOMHEAD "Don't panic -- yet."              13 lines  21-JAN-1991 17:17
                            -< Please be care-full >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is a caution, cribbed shamelessly from another conference, which
    we should all take to heart.
    
    It is permissable for noters to write here about their thoughts and opinions
    regarding the war in Iraq.  It is not the place to insult or attack those
    who hold opinions other than our own.  We will delete any note that is
    not within the usual or the above guidelines.

    Please use restraint and tolerance for other people's point of view when 
    replying on this subject.

    						Ann A. Broomhead, for
    						the Womannotes moderators

    .6 binder
    Am I missing something? Are you saying that I can pay less tax by not
    paying that portion which goes to the military? As far as I know, I
    cannot choose where my taxes will go. So those of us who would not like
    to support the military and pay for the war contribute as much as you
    do.
    Anyway, if there's someplace I have to register or something so my
    money doesn't go to the military I want to know about it.
    manisha

    re: a reminder from the co-mods
    
    to whom?
    What replys triggered that admonition?
    Are you including my reply? If so, why?
    
    

A lot of replies in a lot of different notes triggered that reminder.
Things are tense enough in the world and in our own lives without
all sniping at one another in this file. 

Kathy


---------------------------------------------------------------------

       <<< Note 664.19 by VMSSPT::NICHOLS "It ain't easy being green" >>>

    re: a reminder from the co-mods
    
    to whom?
    What replys triggered that admonition?
    Are you including my reply? If so, why?
    
    

    re: .3  
    
    Personally, I'm not of the mind that your reply doesn't even merit
    a response.  I actually think Americans contributing to a war fund
    is a novel idea.  For anyone who thinks you've already paid for this
    war--sorry, but you're dead wrong.  The cost of this war will just
    be heaped on the deficit and we'll all be paying the tab for decades
    to come.  
    
    A war fund would allow those of us who support any particular war of
    the time to show that support.   It would make a statement not only
    to the country we're in conflict with (and wouldn't it make some
    statement!!), but it would also give our current President a good
    indication of how many Americans actually want war.  Aside from
    serving as a support indicator, it would allow us to pay the tab
    as incurred vs paying 10X the war tab in interest alone.
    
    It's time for us to start listening to people with alternative ideas.
    If we don't, we'll never get beyond wars (not to mention all the other
    problems we've been facing for centuries now!).
    
    Signed, 
    Someone who's tired of playing the same old game. 
                                                   

    War tax resistance is illegal, and is guaranteed to bring you to the
    attention of the IRS.  I attended a seminar on the subject just a few
    weeks ago, and listened to some war tax resisters tell their stories. 
    It is quite interesting, but taking that step involves consequences
    that not everyone is willing to face.
    
    -- Mike

    I heard on NPR that it cost the US 1/2 billion $ a day to wage this
    war. 
    
    The budget planner I got at the store doesn't have an entry for this...
    
    Estelle
    

    .18 binder
    Doing something illegal is not what I call "choice". I still think that
    lots of people who did not choose the war will have to pay for it.
    manisha

    
    Also heard on NPR, something about how the cost of the war is an
    "out-of-budget" expense and that it affects the national debt and not
    the budget deficit.  Enough people here listen to NPR to clear up any
    inaccuracies in what I just said...
    
    I wonder what the difference is between national debt and budget
    deficit?
    
    CQ

    Some other program on a public radio station yesterday mentioned a
    totally different way of looking at the cost aspect; here we've spent 
    a fortune over 40 years on training, equipment, personnel, etc, to
    counter our cold war foes.  Not all of it will need to be replaced.
    Say we have 2000 Patriots usually in Europe...we've fired 20?  Maybe
    150-200 in the next 3 months?  Must they be replaced?  Maybe, since
    the Red Army has left eastern europe, 1500 Patriots is enough for
    Europe.  So the "tab", if you will, has already been picked up, by
    the 40 years of war with the Soviets we prepared for, yet avoided.
    
    DougO

        re .26
        
>>      I wonder what the difference is between national debt and
>>      budget deficit?
        
        I think it works roughly like this ...
        
        The "national debt" is how much the federal government
        owes.  Next (fiscal) year's national debt will be this
        year's national debt plus this year's deficit.
        
        This year's "deficit" is how much more the federal
        government spends this year than it takes in.
        
        This year's "budget deficit" is how much more the federal
        government spends on its budgeted expenses than it takes
        in.
        
        So the year's deficit is the budget deficit plus the
        amount of "out-of-budget" expenses for the year.
        
        The deficit has to be broken out into budgeted and
        non-budgeted parts like this because the
        Gramm-Rudman-Hollings-Kennedy-etc. legislation places a
        limit on the budget deficit part.
        
        Dan

    I have hidden several notes in here, the first as a shot and the reset
    as referring too closely to the original hidden note.

Re: .5

Japan's constitution forbids military force because the Allies insisted on it
after World War II. There are a lot of people in Southeast Asia and other parts
of Asia that would be VERY unhappy to see that provision rescinded.

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it. On the other hand, we now have
a reunited Germany with a potent military, perhaps it is time...

	-- Charles

    In My Opinion, IF your biggest complaint about the war is the money
    that it's costing, your priorities are in the wrong place.
    
    Just my opinion,
    ed

    
    Hi All,
    
    In regards to who is 'picking up the tab'.  I am.  
    
    My tab is doing what is right for my sister.  
    
    
    United States Sargent Andea Ann (Poshusta) Schot is 8� months pregnent 
    and her husband USMC Lance Corpral Dennis Schot is in the Persian Gulf.  
    
    Ann is living in San Diego and is having a tough time outfitting her 
    apartment for the baby.  On a soldier's pay her needs outstrip their 
    pay by many dollars.  I've send off $500 bucks to help with the baby's 
    furniture and feeding.  She is really having a tough time with this 
    situation.  
    
    Aunty Margret and Uncle Joe are helping her out with a couch and 
    chair...but she needs so much more!  
    
    Sorry, but I can't write any more as my eye are filled with tears.
    
    
    							Kelly
    

    G'day,
    
    It may be possible that the weapons are on back order from Iraq anyway.
    They just did not expect delivery to be by air. This will help sort out
    the balance of payments...
    
    
    derek
    

Sorry to get back to this a little late (had to take a work break!!), but there
are two points which I'd like to clarify on the "War Chest"/voluntary 
contribution rathole.

 First, I didn't mean to offend anyone who has family or friends involved in 
the conflict, nor anyone who is working to support this war in any concrete way
(giving blood, organising support groups for spouses/children left behind, etc).
While I question our motives in actually starting this war (rather than 
continuing Desert Shield for a while longer to let diplomacy/sanctions have
an effect), I have great respect for the people who are supporting this war
with their lives, their families, their skills, their abilities...  I do have 
a problem with the people who have no investment in the Gulf War talking 
blithely about how great and wonderful this war is, and how inevitable this war 
is, and how fine it is to be "part of it".  That's why I made the "war chest" 
suggestion; as a way that those who truly support the war (but have no other way
of showing that support) can DO SOMETHING, rather than just talk.

 Secondly (and somewhat more flippantly); I've been reading -d (Binder)'s note
about "income tax as a voluntary contribution to the war".  Dick, do you really
mean to say that _your_ contribution to the war effort is merely a promise not
to cheat on your income tax this year???  I didn't think so, but that is how I\
read it!!

						Nigel
	(now back to read-only, 'cos I promised someone)

    Japan is committing another $US 9 billion and other countries are being
    looked to for further donations, eg., Germany. I heard on the radio
    yesterday that the USA contribution is about right in comparative
    terms. The Japanese contribution means that Japan is paying about 20%
    of the tab right now.
    
    Don
    *8-)

 Latest news is the U.S. will get  80% of its bill paid for by others. 
The U.K. will get to pay all but �300 million. 
(We've spent more than �1000 Million so far) We've lost �150 Million in aircraft
alone.

	When look  GNP the U.K. is about the most committed nation.


	Enough moaning - stuff the money - we still should be there!

		Derek

    Please see note 593.178