Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    see also:
    
    MEDICAL
    42 - back away from chiropractic
    86 - chiropractors
    
    HOLISTIC
    58 - holistic chiropractor
    151 -naive about chiropractors
    
    MASSAGE
    13 - massage therapy/chiropractic
    
    

    I also was in a car accident when I was 17.  From what you say,
    however, I was not as severly injured as you were.  However, I was not
    driving, we were hit from behind while at a red light.  The person in
    the back seat behind me, literally slammed into my seat dislodging it
    from the track, and I in turn slammed my head into the windshield.  I 
    went to the hospital and was immediately released.  That night I was in 
    terrible pain and the next day I could not move my head, arms or shoulders.
    I went to see a chiropractor for 6 months and have not had one problem 
    since.  
    
    When I was much younger, approximately 9 or 10 years old, I was in a
    school bus accident.  To make a long story short, I received no medical
    attention (mom said I was exaggerating) and developed calcific (sp?)
    bursitis in my mid 20's as a result of (what the doctor termed) an old
    fractor that did not properly heal.  Well after a series of cortisone
    shots that were not helping anymore, I, once again, visited my
    chiropractor and after a few treatments was absolutely FINE!  That was
    over 8 years ago and have not had a problem since.
    
    I guess you could say I firmly believe in this type of medical
    practice.  It just works for me.  I brought my son as well for migraine
    headaches (he was coming home from school 3 days out of 5) when he was
    in the fifth grade.  He was seen for about 4-5 months.  He is now a
    junior in high school and I cannot remember the last time he had a
    migraine.  
    
    I don't think that these physicians can do EVERYTHING, but I do believe
    in finding an honest chiropractor who will let you know what he can
    treat and what he cannot.  I'm all for anyone who doesn't reach for the
    perscription pad everytime he sees me as well.  
    
    Hope this helps you out!
    
      

    
                In my note on thing to *hate* I called them
    "quackopractors", while my "real" feelings about them is very
    different.  One of the men I went thru Navy "basic" with was a
    Chiropractor, and he kept most of us in the company quite healthy.
    
    
    Dave

    If chiropractors want to be taken seriously (and from the money
    they're making, it seems as though they already are), they should
    make some effort to rid their ranks of the dangerous quacks. I've
    been completely down on quackopractors ever since one suggested he
    could cure my mother's cataracts. (He didn't; lens implants did.)

    In the E Mass area, Acton Chiropractics has a set of particularly
    odious ads on TV (the ones with the mummy wrapped in chains) which
    basically act on scare tactics (followed by a short spiel from
    someone who looks like a reject from the Hair Club for Men ads).
    People *buy* this stuff?

If you can't deal with a chiropracter try an D.O. they also do manipulations.
liesl

    I have had 2 chiropractors and they both were very good. One was
    excellent - a real healer. 
    
    Any chiropractor who says they can heal cataracts is not a legitimate
    chiropractor. Unfortunately, there are non-approved chiropractic
    schools and you can graduate from these and call yourself a
    chiropractor. In a state without a board exam, you can practice,too.
    
    I would also say, however, that if the medical profession rid itself
    of quacks *I* would feel better about *it*. No group is free of
    "quacks". The responsibility is on the patient to do some research
    and ask questions. "Where did you go to school?" "What is your degree?"
    "Are you board-certified?" etc. 
    
    Chiropractors deal with the spine, the joints, and the nervous system.
    Chiropractic can help headaches of some types, but not of other types.
    It's dynamite for whiplash and other such injuries. It can help with
    organ-related problems, if the cause is a nerve being pinched by 
    vertebrae. 
    
    I look on chiropractic as part of a health-maintenance system,
    consisting of a medical practictioner, a chiropractor, and a massage
    therapist (in my case). Other folks might mix and match a nutritionist,
    an acupuncturist, an herbalist, an osteopath, an exercise
    physiologist..... etc.
    
    Finally, I would say (speaking as a health professional): rely on
    your instinct. If something doesn't "feel" right about the person,
    look elsewhere. There are LOTS of "fish in the sea" as it were. You
    CAN find a good, qualified, practitioner.
    
    --DE
     

    Re .5
    
    Umm... what's a D.O.?
    
    Don
    *8-)

    D.O. = Doctor of Osteopathy, also known as Osteopathic Physicians.
    There aren't a lot around, but IMHO, it is worth it to find one. Look
    in the phone book under Physicians & Surgeons - Osteopathic, D.O. Most
    DO's are in general practice, but there are some that have specialties.
    (And lot's of them still make housecall's too). I don't know where you
    live, but there is an Osteopathic hospital in Boston (near Angell
    Memorial) that could give you a referral. I know that there are several
    around the Waltham/Belmont/Newton MA area.
    
    D.O.'s take the same training as MD plus another two years of study in
    osteopathic "philosophy" and treating of bodily ailments bthrough the
    manipulation or bones, joint and nerve centers (something that made
    the mainstream medical community a bit leary of them for years, and often
    lumped them togeather with chiropractors, dismissing both as "quacks").
    This "philosophy" is that of treating the "whole patient", not just the
    symptoms. IMHO, unlike Chiroprators who seem to feel that all problems are
    caused by your back being out but can not perscribe drugs, and most MDs
    who want to pump you full of drugs when you complain about a backache, 
    DO's kind of take an intermediate approach. If you do have a bone
    out of place, a D.O. can snap it back in (but they don't look for an
    out of place bone to be the root of all problems), and if you are in pain,
    they will prescribe a drug if they feel it is warented (actually, they
    will probably give you your pills as part of your office visit, no
    extra charge), but if there is a more natural means of treating a
    problem, that is what they will probably do. Or if a drug could cause a
    side effect, you will usually be told about it and steps to avoid or
    work around the side effect. The other thing that I like about them is
    that they don't book 4 patients for one 15 minute slot and then run from
    room to room; typically, you get their undivided attention and unless
    there is a *REAL* emergency they won't be interupted by anything while
    with a patient; you'll be asked a lot of questions and the doctor will
    really listen to what you are saying before deciding on a course of
    treatment. I also feel like you are getting a good dose of common sence and 
    practically while you are being treated, and I've always come away feeling
    the the doctor really cares and is concerned about me, not about growing
    his practice to squeeze in a 5th patent into a 15 minute time slot like my
    former eye doctor did (grrrrrrrrr).
    
    I've been going to D.O.'s nearly all of my life (in fact, I was delived by
    a D.O.). I've been to four and all of them seem to act in the manner
    I've described above.
    
    More to the point in the base note, I was minding my own business stopped at
    a red-light when my car was rear-ended by a mobile boom-box full of college 
    students (and travelling at 40MPH) about a year ago. I suffered
    a lovely case of whiplash which consisted of a concussion (with memory
    loss), a couple of dislocated bones, several sprains and a lot of stiffness
    and some pain. I saw my regular doctor (who is a D.O) twice a week for 8
    weeks and while I will not say I am as good as new, I'm about 95% there (I
    just have to be careful when I am working out with free-weights or with
    hyperextending my arm/shoulder). After an x-ray and the bones went back in,
    he used ultra-sound thearpy and prescribed a musle-relaxant and rest and
    later exercise (including telling me what I couldn't do). I guess that what
    I am trying to say here is that I think that if I went to an MD or a DC, I
    don't think that I would have recovered as quickly or to the degree that I
    have because my doctor is an osteopath, he didn't just treat the presenting
    physical problems, he treated all of me, including accommadating parts
    of my personality that an MD would just tell me in a condesending manner
    "either follow my advise or I can't help you" (main reason I went back to
    seeing a DO). For example, staying home from work did my mental state no
    good (and he knew I wouldn't do it anyway), so he told me if I wasn't going
    to stay home from work, simply not to exceed n hours per day, and to lie down at
    least every hour for 15 minutes. 
    
    Just as a side note, I understand that the San Digeo Charger's chief team
    physican is a D.O. with a speciality in orthopedics. I saw a segment
    on TV about him. Players gave him rave reviews, and his MD collegues
    gave him high praises.
    
    Deb

    
    I'd never go to a chiropractor or osteopath who wasn't fully and
    officially qualified and registered. In the UK there's a central
    orgnisation that you can call (Royal College of Osteopaths, for
    example) and this ensures that you can avoid "quacks".
    There must be a similar official register in the U.S., I would
    expect....
    
    My herstory (in brief)...
    I did something horrible to my back when I was 20, at college. I
    wrenched it somehow whilst making a bed - it wasn't a slipped disc,
    but I couldn't move.
    I laid in bed on a board in the health centre for a week and it went
    away.
    I then had intermittant back pain for over a year - often very severe.
    I insisted on an x-ray and check up - I was told that there was nothing
    wrong with me and that I would have to live with it.....and by the
    way, I could never play raquet sports, ride, jog etc etc
    
    At 20 this sounded like a life-sentence. Anyway, I *knew* there was
    something wrong. It hurt. Simple.
    I eventually, in desparation, went to an osteopath. My back was so
    inflamed that he couldn't manipulate it for the first five visits -
    he had to take the fluid and swelling down first....
    
    Anyway, he completely cured my problem, though it took three months of
    weely or twice-weekly visits. 
    I still go to him twice a year for "preventative maintenance".
    
    'gail
    

    Here in Australia, the Australian Medical Association doesn't recognise
    anyone who is a chiropractor. They're still allowed to practise though,
    but no doctor will lend any credibility to them. I must admit though
    that our local chiro here has helped me with a back problem which no
    doctor was able to help.
    
    Don
    *8-)

    In 1988 (I believe) a court in the U.S. found that the American
    Medical Association was guilty of "restraint of trade" of
    Chiropractors. It was proved in court that the AMA had a group
    dedicated to creating bad press and negative information (not
    necessarily *true* information) about chiropractic. Medical
    doctors have spread negative information about chiropractors for
    years. Now, they must stop this practice.
    
    Modern M.D.'s are becoming more open to a variety of health options
    for their patients, and some are referring to chiropractors. It's
    about time. There are some things that M.D.'s can't treat successfully.
    We are still in a situation in which MANY people are told by M.D.'s
    "You'll just have to live with the pain", go to chiropractors and are
    fixed up in a matter or weeks. There are too many of these people to
    be ignored by M.D.'s any more. Lots of things can be cured by
    non-chemical/non-surgical methods, and chiropractic is one of the most
    time-tested and *scientific* ways of doing so.
    
    Chirporactic training is 4 years of heavy-duty science plus training
    in chiropractic manipulation (of which there are many methods used
    today). Well-trained and qualified chiropractors know their stuff and
    can help many conditions. Hopefully, it won't be too long before
    the medical profession releases its stranglehold on the healing arts.
    People are learning that there are many healing methods in the world, 
    and that western medicine is only one of them.
    
    --DE

	My chiro helped me with constant sinus headaches and stiffness in my
neck and shoulders.  I only have 2 negatives about him.  The first is that I
felt I was going to often, and being over adjusted.  (It stopped helping and
starting hurting - so I cut back to once a month or when I was having problems,
that seemed to do the trick.)  And we had to get the spiel on why we should
being going to a chiro and why we should bring all our friends in.  We were
told that the class was to teach us some proper sitting, standing, etc
techniques but instead it was a sales pitch that I've heard from other chiros.

	Aside from that he also helped my ex-, when the Sports medicience Doc
told him just to do excercise and it'll go away.  My ex was in really good shape
but he had pinched a nerve at work.  He had begun to loose the feeling in his
fingers and hand.  The chiro fixed that up in no time.  And our insurance 
covered 80%.  Some HMO's do cover, so check our policy real carefully.

	It did takes us 2 chiros to find a good one.  He was a referral from
someone who used to go regular.

-Andrea

    RE: finding a good chiro - 2 tries
    
    Heck, it took me 5 tries to find a good M.D.!
    
    RE: last
    
    I think what you folks did was exactly the way people should control
    their health care. If you think you are being over-adjusted, or
    over-medicated, tell your doctor and take control! Any heath-care
    professional that doesn't listen to you, doesn't deserve your business.
    
    RE: chiropractic propaganda
    
    Understandable, I think, given the amount of damage done to the
    profession by the negative propaganda about chiropractic that's been
    pushed for years. Too, we get a lot of "generic propaganda" about the
    medical profession from other places, but learn little about
    chiropractic unless we actually go to a chiropractor. I mean, when
    did you see a TV show "Marcus Welby, D.C.", or "Dr. Kildare,
    chiropractor"? When did you last see a chiropractic adjustment that
    saved a person's ability to move? We've seen lots of surgical
    operations, but no adjustment and exercise programs that keep people
    mobile instead of out of work.
    
    --DE
    

    Has anyone used a chiro or osteopath for knee problems?
    Is it possible that they can do more harm than good?

    Yes. A chiro. He adjusted my knees and ankles. I worked in conjunction
    with the chiro, a podiatrist, and exercises from an M.D.
    
    The chiro was the only one who realized that the knee problem was
    connected to an ankle problem. Everyone else treated their own little
    "piece". 
    
    --DE
    

>And we had to get the spiel on why we should
>being going to a chiro and why we should bring all our friends in.  We were
>told that the class was to teach us some proper sitting, standing, etc
>techniques but instead it was a sales pitch that I've heard from other chiros.


If I were persuaded to go to a chiropractor, and were given a spiel like this 
in the guise of a "proper sitting" class (can't imagine why I'd go to that in 
the first place), I'd be out the door before the "class" ended.

    I see a chiropractor more regularly than I see my family practitioner.
    I rarely get headaches any more, nor does my shoulder stress develop
    into muscle pulls.  And chiropractic helped me stay  healthy through
    pregnancy when my lower back and legs were stiff and achey from weight
    pressure.
    
    My family practitioner is fairly pro-chiropractic, as was the
    orthopedic surgeon I saw a few years ago for a muscle tear. Now, if
    only HMO's would cover chiropractic services ! That was the big dilemma
    with the recent healthcare fiasco we went through.
    

This is a little late but I am about 1000 notes behind...

Once you have ruled out treatable medical problems go to a chiropractor.  Both
my mother and sister have had problems that orthopedics said that all they could
do to get better was to stay in bed.  At times neither of them could barely move
but once they went to the chiropractor they would be able to walk around
easily. Between chiros and physical therapy both of them are almost back to 
normal. I have been for headaches suffered from a whiplash and it really helped
out.

My doctor relatives would never go to one and told us not to go but after seeing
what it has done for my family I know it works.  

-- Nisha

I distroyed my knee pretty badly playing high school sports. By the time I hit my
sophmore year in college I was in a lot of pain and the team physician was
pretty adamant that I either have surgery, stop playing or risk not being able
to walk when I hit my mid 30s.

Instead I went to my family doctor (an ostepath) for physical therapy a
couple of times a week each summer before the hockey season. She "prescribed"
a special way that the trainer was to tape my knee (actually, almost all of
my left leg) and ankle, and special shows for when we played on astro turf,
and I managed to squeek out three more seasons of field hockey. She did caution
me though, that when I got older to make sure I kept the knee "limber" or the 
team physician's prophacy might come true.

Since I've "retired" from the game, I haven't been back for physical therapy
on the knee, and Dr. Cauldwell has since passed away. I also can't seem to
participate in a lot of sports that I used to love that are hard on the knees.
I'm sure that most of my problem is due to the cartilage/ligament damage, a
touch of arthritis and just the general ageing process. And if I keep my knee
in one position too long, it does stiffen, sort of like a rusty hinge.
However, except for the ability to predict bad storms, I'm not in any pain
and make a point of walking  2 to 3 miles each evening. So, I'd say that
whatever my DO did didn't hurt me, although someday I think that I might
consider having knee surgery.

Deb

    Well, I just got back from my first chiro appointment...oh, my
    Gawd!!!!!!  All I can think of is the dentist in Little Shop of
    Horrors.  (*8
    
    Anyway, after 14 years of pain, I guess I have to give this a fair
    shot.  It does actually feel a little better.  sigh.  I'm going back
    next week.
    
    And I *paid* for that?!?!?!  ouch.
    
    E Grace

re:                  <<< Note 608.19 by EISJCR::SKALTSIS "Deb" >>>

Off the subject of chiros:

I'm not a doctor or anything, but one thing I can say is if you have 
cartilage damage it's not going to get any better. I tore a ligament in 
my knee when I was 15. They didn't have the technology to fix such things 
back then so they just removed it. I kept playing sports and tore a 
cartilage shortly after. I walked around with it like that for 17 years. 
Sometimes it hurt, sometimes it was fine, but eventually it got to the point 
where I had to have it fixed. I had arthroscopic surgery last May and I've 
been kicking myself ever since for not doing it sooner. It was a breeze, and 
my knee felt great after it was over. I've since had the ligament rebuilt, 
but that's another story.

Jenna

    
    
    RE: E Grace and awful crunching noises
    
    The following is an excerpt from the pamphlet my chiro gives out (talks
    about the form of chiropractic manipulations that he does.)  If the
    idea of "cracking" you bothers you, you might want to try a
    chiropractor that uses the following technique.  (Mine is in
    Northboro).
    
    k
    
    "Sacro Occipital Technique -- Gentle Power"
    
    "Pain is a poor companion.  It doesn't matter if it came to you through
    injury, disease, or unknown origin, and it doesn't matter how long it's
    shared your company; pain is NOT a welcome visitor to your body.
    
    "Scro Occipital Technique (SOT) offers one of the most advanced
    corrective procedures in chiropractic.  This powerful, yet GENTLE,
    technique emphasizes a nontraumatic, nonforceful approach to your
    health.
    
    ...
    
    "With SOT, the chiropractor concentrates on structural stability, or
    balancing of the body.  The cog at the center of our machinery, so to
    speak, is the pelvis, upon which rests the spine, shoulders, neck and
    head.  Below the pelvis,, we have our legs and feet.
    
    "The stable pelvis balances, coordinates and maintains the body.  The
    large upper thish and very important back muscles, including those
    responsible for neck and shoulder stability are attached to the pelvis
    girdle.  An unstable pelvis creates problems in any one or a number of
    the associated areas.
    
    "SOT uses the body's own gravitational pull, combined with gentle, yet
    extremely precise manipulation to first center the pelvis foundation,
    and then align the remainder of the spine.  This procedure does not
    require the use of force, but the results suggest power of technique.
    
    "SOT employs sophisticated structural mapping which establishes a
    logical and effective method for diagnosis and treatment of your
    ailments.  SOT may also use wedge-shaped blocks to allow the body to
    seek it's correct alignment and balance.
    
    "SOT recognizes the importance of body language and uses many
    indicators in the form of neurological signs, weak muscles, active
    reflexes or other body indicators to determine the type of adjustment
    you need.  As the body responds and heals, stress areas around the body
    are eliminated."
    
    

    Thank you for the information, kath; I appreciate it.
    
    E Grace

    RE: chiros
    
    I don't mind the cracking sounds, 'long as it doesn't *hurt*. (which
    it doesn't) The crackling can be startling, tho'...
    
    Try getting a massage (or 2) before the next appointment (*just*
    before the appointment - as close as you can schedule it) - the
    muscular relaxation can help...
    
    
    RE: cartilage
    
    Adjustments of the knee and ankle can keep cartilage problems from
    getting worse, if there hasn't been a complete tear. If it's torn,
    you're pretty much up the Famous Creek, however.
    
    
    --DE
    

    Well, actually, it *did* hurt for a moment.  BTW, I said "crunching",
    not "cracking".  I'm used to cracking, but hearing everything sound
    like it had been crunched like a junk car was a little unnerving!
    
    E Grace