Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    But it would still make me furious.  Why is Monistat preseripction only
    if Micatin (or whatever it was called) isn't?  The answer, of course,
    is that they think they can make more money keeping it prescription
    only.  But the fact that the same *active* ingredient (whatever the
    base) is available without prescription means that there is no inherent
    reason to make it prescription only.  After all, the fact that it is
    available OTC means that the FDA doesn't think it is dangerous enough
    to warrant making it prescription only.
    
    I would like to find out if I could actually use Mictin on yeast
    infections.  Anyone know?  but even if not, it still makes me angry.
    
    D!

    Just because a drug is approved for one use, that doesn't mean
    it's safe for other uses. The active ingredient in products like
    Micatin might well have been found to be safe on external skin
    like feet and thighs, but irritating or dangerous on tender moist
    internal skin -- my tube of athlete's foot cream has a specific
    warning not to use on mucous membranes. 
    
    --bonnie

    .3 says part of it; that the active ingred might be ok on toes but not
    on mucus membranes, or internally.
    
    Two other things come to mind:
    	1) does the concentration of the active ingredient vary?
    	2) are the inert ingredients different?  their effect(s) may also
    	   vary, depending on the site, and frequency, of application.

it is the matrix [or _in_active ingredients] that makes Micatin a bit of an
insult to interior surfaces. [at mildly astringent substances and _my_ interior
surface don't get on well ... and, no, I've never used Micatin as a remedy for
yeast infestations]

as for why Monistat isn't OTC, I wouldn't elevate to global conspiracy priority
1, but I believe it's definately in the priority 2 category.

most of the reasons given are pretty valid reasons not to have ANY OTC 
medications:
  - one might not have a yeast infestation
  - one might not seek professional help soon enough if the symptoms
    don't abate
  - the infestation may be only secondary to a far serious ailment
    that should be diagnosed and treated

all valid.  however, the logic of this argument against OTC Monistat sort of
breaks down in the face of Robitussin, Maalox, Dimetapp, Chlor-Trimeton, et al.
_Most_ people treat symptoms effectively with these remedies and see their 
doctors when they don't do the trick. So why not Monistat?  I hate to feel this
way, but it p*sses me off royally that women seem to be trustworthy in treating
their children with OTC remedies to common problems, but can't be trusted to
treat them_selves_.

All of which is personally moot as terconazol is all that works for me. [and
my doctor trusts me with it. She'll call it in with the proviso that I stop
in if the condition persists.]

 Annie

	I'll have to go home and double check, but I could swear that what 
the Pedi prescribed for Katie's yeast infections was called Micatin. 

	(Maybe it's just similar and my brain is garbling it.  :-)  It's 
happened before...)

Tracey
 

    Yeah, several medications cloak in double-uses.  One is that
    wonder-drug Diphenhydramine.  I believe it's the primary drug in all
    the Benalyn products, and Benadryl, but it's also the main ingredient
    in NYTOL (which explains why it makes you so SLEEPY when you use
    Benadryl!).....I'm sure the surrounding meds in both drugs vary, but it
    isn't unusual for a single drug to show two actions (Minoxadil was
    originally used to lower blood pressure, now it theoretically helps
    return hair to balding people).
    
    -Jody
    

    >Using Micatin for a yeast infestation would be a serious mistake.
    
    Why?
     
    D!    

    The question isn't whether to use Micatin for yeast infection or not.
    The question is if Micatin is available over-the-counter why isn't
    Monistat? Why do we need prescriptions for anti-yeast-infection drugs
    when other drugs having the same active ingredient are available
    without prescriptions?
    manisha

    manisha
    
    I think one reason is that there is at least one form of VD the early
    symptoms of which are quite similar to a yeast infection. So if a
    person thinks she just has a yeast and uses an over the counter 
    medication she could be letting a more serious infection go untreated
    and be passing this to her partner(s).
    
    In many cases if you have a regular physician and suffer from
    yeast infections the doctor will renew the perscription without an
    office visit.
    
    Bonnie

    My pediatrician's nurse recommended Lotrimin A/F for my 7 month old
    daughter's diaper rash (probably an antibiotic induced yeast
    infection).  She said that it used to be prescription but has recently
    become available OTC but that I would find it in the foot care aisle
    of the drug store.  It worked, although it took 4 days.   I must say
    I was a little hesitant to put adult foot cream on my little one's 
    behind!
    
    FWIW - with a prescription it would have cost $3.00 as opposed to the
    $6.99 retail.
    
    Jane Marie

    Jane Marie
    
    That is an interesting point about the price. For those with
    that type of coverage perscription drugs are cheaper than
    over the counter.
    
    Bonnie

    I had a severe yeast infection years ago after taking anti-biotics.
    A close friend of mine (who was also a nurse) told me to use plain
    yogurt 4 to 5 times a day.  My irration was gone the next day.  I
    have been using it ever since with the same results at about a
    cost of 50 cents.  Although I'm not a doctor, it works for me!
    
    Heidi
    
    

    re .14
    So how do you get it where it's supposed to be? :-)
    

    >So how do you get it where it's supposed to be? :-)
    
    Buy a douche, empty out the douche-filling, fill the bag with yoghurt,
    attach the nozell, and you're ready to roll.
    
    D!
    
    [Disclaimer: I haven't done this.  Sounds utterly disgusting to me, but
    I've heard it works, and this would be a sensible way to do it. 
    Frankly, I'll stick to Yeastguard and drinking cranberry juice.]

    No.  No.  No.  NOT "fill it with yogurt".  It'll sit in there for days
    if you do that!
    
    Put 1-2 tablespoons of fresh, whole-milk (NOT fat-free) PLAIN yogurt in
    a quart of warm water.  THAN use the douche.
    
    -Jody
    

    You could also use one of those applicators that comes with creams
    such as monistat to apply the undiluted yoghurt.
    
    Bonnie

    I've seriously heard that you should eat the yoghurt

    Yes, eating yogurt daily has been shown in some tests to reduce the
    likelihood and severity of yeast infections.
    
    -Jody
    

    Hm.  Perhaps one's partner could help one apply it?
    
    --bonnie

    Ah, except at those times that I might *need* to yoghurt applied, I am
    in dread of any hint at being in an intimate situation with my, uh,
    intimate.
    
    That's the curse of yeast infections.
    
    D!
    
    {Needless to say, now that I don't *have* an intimate, I *never* get
    infections!}

    I'm writing this for my next door neighbor who is having a problem
    getting rid of a yeast infection - diagnosed by her GYN.  She has
    been on two different medications... monistat and one other (cant
    remember what she told me it was) which have worked in the past.
    She has no other health complaints and she is not on the pill.  She
    says it just wont go away.  Anyone run into this before?
    
    I have also posted this in Medical.
    
    thanks
    

    
    see also:
    
    Womannotes-V1
    92 - candida albicon
    520 - yeast infection - help!
    
    womannotes-V2
    347 - help! vaginal infections ... any thoughts?
    
    Womannotes-V3 (this file)
    500 - yeast infection and monistat
    513 - yeasts and their relatives
    
    Holistic
    155 - candida albicans
    
    Medical
    911 - (crossposting of your question)
    
    
    -Jody
    

    How do I access these files.  I was able to access them before
    the note moved to IKE22 but now I'm not able to.
    
    

    I don't know where you or your neighbor live, but my chiropractor in
    Concord is also does homeopathy and treats persistent yeast/candida
    infections with a wholistic approach.
    
    Her name is Dr. Sarah Williams @ 371-9198.

    Womannotes-V1 and V2 will be online again soon, and the rest can be
    found by looking at EASYNOTES.LIS, which is located at 
    ANCHOR""::NET$LIBRARY:EASYNOTES.LIS (please copy it after hours to save
    network traffic, etc).  This document has a listing of most of the
    notesfiles, and what nodes they're on.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    This came originally from a Women's Health Clinic in Portland, Oregon. 
    I got it from a nurse practitioner at HCHP.
    
    It's fairly graphic in detail, and discusses treatment of yeast,
    bacterial, and trichomonas infections, as well as nonspecific
    vaginitis, in plain, simple terms.  I can't vouch that any one or two
    or three will do the trick, but if you're fed up with getting monistat
    or gyne-lotrimin all the time, it may be worth a shot....
    
    -Jody
    
    p.s.  formfeed included for those who don't wish to read it - again it
    is fairly clear and graphic in the treatment methods....
    
    
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

Natural Treatments for Vaginits
by
The Vaginal Infections Research Group, Women's Place Resource Center, 1975
- revised August, 1977

Many women are turning to herbal remedies for their vaginitis.  Herbs are
not altogether like chemical medicines.  Roughly, chemical medicines tend
to kill off the "bug", herbs tend to restore the body to its normal
environment and promote healing.

Don't be deceived into thinking herbs are harmless; many herbs are potent
and you should know what you're doing, either by reading books, or talking
to more experienced people before you experiment much.  The remedies listed
here are easy to use if you have no previous herb exeperience.  Some of the
remedies are not herbal but other harmless substances, such as vinegar.

We have tried many remedies, and the list below includes those that have
worked for us, or people we know.

We left out many herbs which we know are helpful for vaginitis, but for
which we could not find clear directions for use.  If one remedy doesn't
work, try another; if one has worked in the past, try it again.  Usually if
a remedy is working, it will work within a week.  If not, consider a
different herb or a different approach.

Pre-packaged herbs are more expensive than bulk.  The best buys are usually
at co-op grocery stores.  Most herbs cost from 15 cents to 1.00 an ounce.
Goldenseal is usually more expensive because it is concentrated.

IMPORTANT::::::
BEFORE YOU TREAT YOURSELF, BE SURE YOU DON'T HAVE VD OR AN INFECTION THAT
INVOLVES YOUR UTERUS, TUBES, AND OVARIES (if you have FEVER, or PAIN in
your lower abdomen, check this out before using anything).  Use these AFTER
you are sure you really have a vaginal infection and nothing more serious
than that.

You can do a lot to prevent vaginitis:  wear cotton underpants or no
underpants at all; wipe front to back after a bowel movement; don't share
washcloths or towels; avoid chemicals (harsh soaps, perfumes, commercial
douches, sprays, etc.); get enough sleep and exercise.  If you're run down
and/or in poor health it's easy to get vaginitis; it's harder if you're
healthy.  Eat enough protein so that your body has the materials to cure
itself.  Cut sugar, other sweeteners, and refined foods out of your diet.
Most little beasties eat sugar.  Eat plenty of acid-forming grains and
beans.  Infections do not thrive in an acid medium. 

Stretching your vaginal muscles is helpful in preventing and curing
vaginal infections.  This will increase the blood flow to your vagina
bringing more white blood cells to fight infection and also more
nourishment to keep the area healthy.  Just lie down and make yourself
comfortable and relx the muscles around your vagina.  If this is hard for
you, do the following exercise:

Lie down on the floor on your back with your head and shoulders on two
pillows.  Bend your knees up with your feet flat on the floor.  Spread your
knees out as far as you can, letting the soles of your feet stay together.
Relax your vaginal muscles.  Slow deep breathing may help you.  Place a
hand over your vagina so that you can feel the muscles relax.  Rest this
way.  This exercise will stretch the muscles and tendons in your vaginal
area and promote vaginal health.

It is also helpful to massage the back of the leg behind the ankle.
Massaging this part of the leg will help to soothe the organs, relax
tension, and stimulate proper circulation to the genital area, as it
contains the corresponding nerve endings.

Another way to promote circulation to the genital area is the sitz bath.
Run a few inches of very hot water into a bath tub and sit in it with your
feet propped up, adding water as hot as you can stand it.  The heat
increases circulation in that area, aiding healing.  Just a hot bath will
not work because it affects all of the skin instead of increasing the blood
flow to the specific area.

Don't douche except for curative reasons.  When you douch for vaginitis,
remember - it is possible to force air or fluid into the uterus and
abdominal cavity.  If these instructions are not clear enough, find a
paramedic, nurse, or doctor who can clarify them for you.
	- use lukewarm water
	- douche in a tub or on a toilet, but never have the bag of the
		hot water bottle more than 2 feet above your hips.  Never
		squeeze a bulb type bag too firmly.
	- wait until the air is out of the tubing and the solution starts
		running through before putting the nozzle into your
		vagina.
	- if you are pregnant, don't douche.
	- if you ever experience abdominal pain, possibly with fever after
		douching, see a doctor or hospital that same day.  This
		doesn't happen often, but it is possible.

If you aren't comfortable douching, or can't, some of the douching remedies
can be poured into a few inches of bath water.  Then you can sit with your
knees apart, open your vagina slightly by inserting one or two fingers and
pulling down slightly to let the water run in.  You can use your finger to
try to wash out discharge and bathe your vagina with the herbal bath water.
Don't rub too hard, you can irritate yourself.

With, or instead of this, you can soak a tampax (out of the tube) in the
herbal solution, then insert it into the vagina overnight or for several
hours.  This method may or may not drip, depending on your anatomy, so you
should use a pad or lie on a towel until you're sure.  Be sure that you
leave the string of the tampax accessible. Inserting the wet tampax can be
tricky, since it's so soft.  Use any technique that you can think of that
is not dangerous.  Here are some suggestions:
	- if you have a diaphragm, put the wet tampax in the diaphragm,
		fold it together and insert it as usual.  Then, slip the
		diaphragm out while leaving the tampax in place and the
		string accessible
	- if you have a plastic speculum, insert the speculum, open it
		enough to push in the tampax, then hold the tampax in place
		with one hand or finger while removing the speculum
		with the other.

Caution - be sure to cleanse the diaphragm or speculum with soap and very
hot water after using to prevent reinfection.

You can also hold an herb-soaked pad to the genital area for 5 minutes to
several hours to relieve external itching and soreness.

POULTICES - for herb poultices, try to use fresh, organic leaves.  Wrap in
clean, well-woven, non-irritating fabric such as muslin or cotton.  As a
last resort, paper towels may be used for no more than 10-15 minutes.  Do
not use colored or recycled paper towels.  Poultices should be slightly
damp.  They should be changed when dry or every 3-5 hours, depending on the
severity of the ocndition.  Each time the poultice is changed, replace the
cloth with a clean one.  If fresh herbs are not available, use dried, and
pour boiling water over the herb to soften it before placing the herb
inside the cloth.  Poultices can be used externally or internally.

WELL-TESTED REMEDIES:

Yeast
	-- gentian violet can be bought at a pharmacy.  Dilute a few drops
to a quart of lukewarm water and douche.  It is also available in
suppository form, but may require a prescription.  For either form, use a
tampon or pad to protect your clothes, as it stains bright purple.

Yeast or Trichomonas
	-- Vinegar relieves itching and restores the acid balance of the
vagina.  Douche with 1 tsp vinegar in 1 pint of lukewarm water once a day
or twice a week.  Too much may dry out and irritate tissues.
	-- Acidopholus culture restores natural bacteria - mix 1-2
tablespoons of whole-milk plain yoghurt (no sugar) or the equivalent
culture with two pints of warm water and douche twice a day.  Culture is
available in health food stores in liquid form.  Yogurt or culture may also
be spread directly onto the vulva to relieve itching.

Trichomonas
	-- take 1 handful each of chapparel and chamomile.  Steep in 1
quart water for 20 minutes.  Douche 2-3 times a week for 2 weeks.

Non-specific or bacterial
	-- alternate vinegar and salt water douches for a week.  That is,
vinegar douche one day, salt water the next, etc.  Vinegar should be 2 tbsp
to 1 quart water.  Salt should be 1 tbsp to 1 quart water. Use an
acidopholus douche the last day - with 2 tbsp acidopholus culture to 1 pint
lukewarm water.
	-- You could also insert a peeled clove of garlic into the vagina,
being sure to first tie it securely for easy removal. Leave a long end on
the tie like a tampon.  Either use several hours a day for 10 days, or all
day for 3 days.  Change it daily.  After the end of this garlic treatment,
use a vinegar douche once - 2 teaspoons vinegar to 1 quart water.
	-- You could also cover 1 teaspoon goldenseal and one clove of
minced garlic with 1 quart boiling water and steep until cool - douche
daily with this mixture for a week.

Any vaginitis:
	-- Goldenseal - bring 2 cups water to a boil.  Add 1 tsp of
goldenseal powder, simmer 20-30 minutes.  Let cool, then either pour the
liquid off the top or strain it through a cloth.  Add water to make 1 quart
total.  Douche daily with this for a week.
	-- Salt neutralizes the vagina.  Douche with 1 tsp sea salt in 1
pint lukewarm water once a day.
	-- Vaginal depletion pack - a combination of herbs and oils that
dries out and removes dead and infected cells - available from some
naturopathy clinics
	-- Drink cranberry juice and/or 1 tsp of vinegar and 1 tsp of honey
in hot water.  This helps create an acid condition in your system.


Yeast:
	-- Douche with 2 tsp. baking soda in 1 quart water.  Although this
mixture is alkaline and most yeast treatments involve acidifying the
vagina, it seems to be effective.  This may be because yeast cannot grow in
an environment that is either too acid or too alkaline.

Yeast or Trich:
	-- Goldenseal and myrrh - boil 3 cups water; add 1 tbsp each of
goldenseal and myrrh, simmer 20 minutes.  Then either let it sit and pour
the liquid off the top when it settles or strain through a cloth.  Add water
to make 1 quart total.  Douche daily for a week.
	-- Oatstraw tea - 1 tsp to 1 cup boiling water is drinking
strength.  You can drink the tea daily for a month along with douching.
Make a stronger tea for the douche, but don't douche more than once a week
with it.  After douching, lie down for at least 1/2 hour to allow the tea
to completely saturate the vagina before leaking out.

Yeast, non-specific, or bacterial:
	-- Bayberry bark - bring 1 quart water to a boil.  Add 2 or 3 tbsp.
bayberry bark and boil gently for 20 minutes.  Strain, cool, add more water
to make a quart if necessary.  Douche daily for a week.

Any vaginitis:
	-- calendula (marigold) - bring 3 cups water to a boil.  Remove
from heat and add a handful (or about 4 tbsp, 1/4 cup) of calendula.  Cover
and let sit for 5-10 minutes.  Strain, add water to make 1 quart total, and
let cool.  Douche daily for a week.
	-- slippery elm - douche with 1 oz. bark to 1 quart boiling water. 
Steep 1 hour and strain.
	-- Black willow bark - use 1 oz powdered bark and 1 pint boiling
water, let cool before using.  Douche once a day for a week.
	-- pit root and fennel seed - steep 1 tsp of each in 1 pint boiling
water for 20 minutes.  cool and use as a douche.
	-- douche with 1 tsp salt and 1 tsp 3% hydrogen peroxide in 1 quart
water.
	-- giant solomon seal root - make a tea using 1 tsp to 1 cup of
boiling water and drink it or make it into a poultice.  For best results,
drink 2 cups tea daily in conjunction with a poultice.
	-- red sage - use 1 pint malt vinegar, 1 ounce powdered red sage,
and 1/2 pint cold water.  Mix and allow to stand for several hours.  Drink
1/2 cup several times a day.  This mixture is supposed to increase the
circulation of the body and especially the genital area.
	-- dandelion tea - use 1 tsp of the leaves, roots or both in 1 cup
boiling water.  Drink several cups per day.  This herb may also be added to
salads or soups to give nourishment.
	-- manzanita tea - DO NOT USE IF PREGNANT.  Use 1/2 tsp herb to 1
cup boiling water.  steep for 5 minutes and strain.  drink 1 or 2 cups
daily.
	-- douche with 2 tbsp of chlorophyll to a quart of water.
Chlorophyll obtained from wheatgrass juice is supposed to be best.
	-- dip a tampax into aloe vera gel and insert.  leave in overnight.
	-- a suggested vitemin regimen is about 100 mg of B1, B2, and B6,
and 200 mg of B3, as well as pantothenic acid and the rest of the B vitamin
complex, supplemented with B vitamin-rich foods such as brewer's yeast.
Administration of the large doses of B complex should not be formore than
two months.  Relief from the itching sensations has been reported with the
application of B6 salve directly.  Note that if you are taking large
amounts of B vitamins, increase the amount of water you drink as the excess
vitamins naturally require water for excretion in the urine.
	-- Vitamin C, 250-1000 mg per day
	-- Vitamin A is good for the health of the mucous membranes.  Take
50 to 10,000 units per day for A FEW DAYS (Vitamin A is oil-soluble, not
water-soluble, and if you have a lot of it in your system for a long time
your body can't excrete the excess).
	-- Vitamin E may have a healing effect and may help Vitamin A from
being oxidized by itself being oxidized.  Take 200 units of E for 3 days.

    To reference my earlier note.  My neighbor has been diagnosed with
    systemic candida.  She had a live cell test and follow-up blood work
    which confirmed the diagnosis.  I too had the test and have even
    a larger concentration than she.  Here comes a major life style change!
    

what is systemic candida?

D!

    
    As I understand it, D!, systemic candida is used to describe the
    condition where candida has spread pretty thoroughly throughout
    the body causing a variety of reactions (could look like asthma,
    food allergies etc etc) rather than just being a "localised"
    vaginal infection. Apparently it is often misdiagnosed because it
    can cause such a wide variety of symptoms.
    
    I have a friend who started to show symptoms that could be seen
    as asthma. Her doctor diagnosed it as such, and put her on steroids.
    After getting no better for months she went to a naturopath....
    He diagnosed her as having systemic candida, got her off the
    steroids (which had in fact helped the candida to spread by 
    killing off some of the "helpful bugs" in her body) and put her
    on a yeast-free diet. She now feels 600% better, has lost weight,
    and shows no symptoms. 
    
    'gail
    

Thanks, 'gail.

What are the symptoms of systemic candida? How can it be identified and
tested?

D!

    The following in entered for a member of our community who wishes to
    remain anonymous.
    
    Ann Johnston
    =wn= comod
   ----------------------------------------
    
	Help! I've got another yeast infection. I went to the
	doctor last winter several times for them and he could
	find nothing wrong other than the yeast. He put me
	on hormone replacement pills and gave me a perscription
	for a yeast medicaton.
	
	Two days ago I started itching again and immediately
	started in with the perscription. But I'm still sore
	and uncomfortable. I've used an over the counter cream
	and (brrr) ice cubes to reduce the itching.
	
	Can anyone suggest anything else to try till the medication
	gets things under control?

	Thankyou

    Some people have suggested yogurt (plain ole.)  haven't tried it, but
    it's a common folk remedy.  (Eating it helps...but I haven't tried
    direct application.)
    
    D!

re: -.1

buy yoghurt with live culture - unsweetened, of course...and douch with it
as well as eat it.  Oh, for comfort, you might let it warm up before douching.
but then, if itchy, it might help.

also, buy old fashioned, practical, cotton underwear - these silky things are
one of the main problems with yeast infections - even with the "cottom panel"
they aren't actually allowing your system to breathe.  And, finally, if the
problem is recurring, ask your SO to be tested - men are often the unwitting
source of the problem - they don't suffer, but they can carry the organism.

And if it doesn't get better pretty damn soon, break down and visit your
gyn again.  Yeasts recur, but sometimes what looks like a yeast is some
other problem.  Don't take the risk of getting really messed up.

-d

    Health food stores sell acidophilius in gel capsules.

    Apply the contents of one capsule (or as much as you can manage)
    directly inside once a day.  Makes yeast go away pronto.

    Cool yogurt helps if it is very itchy.  Do NOT use cortisone unless 
    it's a prescription and then only after asking LOTS of questions.

    Avoid eating yeasty foods and all mycotia (mushrooms).

    Are you on the pill?  It makes many women more susceptible to yeast. 
    And definitely get your partner checked.

    Stay away from tampons, too.....might just be coincidence,
    but the people I know who suffer from yeast infections
    use them....
    None of the women in my family use tampons, and none of us have
    ever had one either.....?
    
    HRH

    My yeast infections definitely decreased when I quit using tampons. 
    Also, drink cranberry juice.  Helps keep everything in PH balance.
    
    Karen

    see 500.29
    
    -Jody